Rate my Saison

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HBWarke

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What do you think:

6lbs. of Pilsen Light DME
1lb. of Wheat DME

1oz. EKG @ 60min.
1/2oz. Perle @ 30min.
1/2oz. Crystal + Irish Moss @ 15min.
1/2oz. Tangerine Peel + 1/4 Cardamom Seed @ 15min.
1/4oz. Perle + 1/4oz. Crystal @ 10min.
1/4oz. Perle + 1/4oz. Crystal @ 3min.

1 packet of Belle Saison yeast
 
The tangerine and cardamom I would definitely add at flameout, or as close to flameout as you are comfortable. At 15min, all the aromatics will have dissipated and all youll be left with is the harsh tannins and byproducts from boiling those spices.

Cardamom is also a very tricky ingredient to use. Im guessing by "seed" you actually mean "pod"? They come in pods which contain tiny little seeds. Black cardamom is also very different than green cardamom (more common). Ive used about 2g of the seeds from a green cardamom pod, crushed, added at flameout in a 5.5gal batch with good results. Not too overpowering but you can definitely taste it. If you meant 1/4oz of seeds (~7g) I would warn you that is waaaay too much.

I'd add some cane sugar. All extract saisons make me cringe due to extract beers being notorious for not reaching FG. There is some portion of crystal in every type of DME, even the light ones. I would swap 1lb of the pilsner DME with corn or cane sugar to account for this and dry the beer out. Otherwise, it wont have a crisp finish that successful commercial examples have

fermentation temperature is also going to play a large part in the final product
 
Already whipped it up. Tasted a sample last week. Was good. Smells good as well. Looking forward to the finished product. Didn't get any harshness either.
 
Just like some input on what to look for. For instance, the one poster said it could be harsh.
 
Just like some input on what to look for. For instance, the one poster said it could be harsh.

Don't let anyone cloud your judgment. Taste it and decide for yourself. Now you're going to be looking specifically for harshness.
 
Good point, mi amigo. I haven't had a Saison in forever, but I wanted something Belgian-like. Looking forward to it.
 
The tangerine and cardamom I would definitely add at flameout, or as close to flameout as you are comfortable. At 15min, all the aromatics will have dissipated and all youll be left with is the harsh tannins and byproducts from boiling those spices.

Cardamom is also a very tricky ingredient to use. Im guessing by "seed" you actually mean "pod"? They come in pods which contain tiny little seeds. Black cardamom is also very different than green cardamom (more common). Ive used about 2g of the seeds from a green cardamom pod, crushed, added at flameout in a 5.5gal batch with good results. Not too overpowering but you can definitely taste it. If you meant 1/4oz of seeds (~7g) I would warn you that is waaaay too much.

I'd add some cane sugar. All extract saisons make me cringe due to extract beers being notorious for not reaching FG. There is some portion of crystal in every type of DME, even the light ones. I would swap 1lb of the pilsner DME with corn or cane sugar to account for this and dry the beer out. Otherwise, it wont have a crisp finish that successful commercial examples have

fermentation temperature is also going to play a large part in the final product

This write-up effort deserves attention. Everything mentioned is appropriate.

However, and this p!$$ed me off, the OP apparently just posted the "recipe" for the record, since the beer had been brewed already for a week. He should run for office.
 
I'd give it a solid C. Seems overhopped for a saison. Loses points for extract. Nothing particularly noteworthy or creative. No info on OG/FG or any useful information. However, I am sure it made a good beer.
 
What temp are you fermenting at?

It's been between 68-72. I will say that when I tried it yesterday (FG sample), it had the characteristics of a Saison as I have read. It was fruity, malty, spicy (cardamom), and dry. Not much hop character, if any. From an OG of approx. 1.063 to a FG of 1.006, it will be around 7.5%. A little higher than I wanted, but should be a good beer for nights at the beach this Summer.
 
Should not be malty, too dark, and I don't like the seeds floating around. Also appears undercarbonated. Downgrade to D.
 
Now that I'm looking on a laptop, it looks like it good be grain husk material, but wait, that doesn't make sense since this was all extract...
 
Should not be malty, too dark, and I don't like the seeds floating around. Also appears undercarbonated. Downgrade to D.

It's an orange color. The light makes it look darker. As for carbonation, I haven't carbonated it yet. This is my FG sample. Ya, I'm not sure why the seeds are floating in it.
 
It's an orange color. The light makes it look darker. As for carbonation, I haven't carbonated it yet. This is my FG sample. Ya, I'm not sure why the seeds are floating in it.

It should not even be orange like that. I will give you a pass on the carbonation, so C-.
 
Actually the color of it is the same as what other websites are showing in pics that it should be. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
 
Actually the color of it is the same as what other websites are showing in pics that it should be. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

You asked me to rate it, I rated it. Most saisons (unless designated otherwise) are light, straw or golden. The bigger issue is you described it as malty, which should not be there, so that is why I downgraded you to C-.
 
Lol to the carrots comment. Serious question though: what are those floaters?
 
Why can't it be malty?

Know your BJCP:
"Most commonly, a pale, refreshing, highly-attenuated, moderately-bitter, moderate-strength Belgian ale with a very dry finish.... a Saison should never finish sweet."

Are you sure what you're tasting is malt? Could it just be the mouthfeel? Many saison yeasts (including Belle Saison) produce a large amount of glycerol which can increase perceived mouthfeel even in a very dry beer.
 
Why can't it be malty?

Have you actually tasted a saison before? They should be extremely dry to highlight the tangy and spicy esters from the yeast. Sure, it is beer made from malt, so it will have some malt character, but that should not be the first thing in your description. It should not be "malty" in the same was as an English Brown or other style brewed with a lot of crystal malts etc.


http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style16.php#1c

6C. Saison

Aroma: High fruitiness with low to moderate hop aroma and moderate to no herb, spice and alcohol aroma. Fruity esters dominate the aroma and are often reminiscent of citrus fruits such as oranges or lemons. A low to medium-high spicy or floral hop aroma is usually present. A moderate spice aroma (from actual spice additions and/or yeast-derived phenols) complements the other aromatics. When phenolics are present they tend to be peppery rather than clove-like. A low to moderate sourness or acidity may be present, but should not overwhelm other characteristics. Spice, hop and sour aromatics typically increase with the strength of the beer. Alcohols are soft, spicy and low in intensity, and should not be hot or solventy. The malt character is light. No diacetyl.

Appearance: Often a distinctive pale orange but may be golden or amber in color. There is no correlation between strength and color. Long-lasting, dense, rocky white to ivory head resulting in characteristic “Belgian lace” on the glass as it fades. Clarity is poor to good though haze is not unexpected in this type of unfiltered farmhouse beer. Effervescent.

Flavor: Combination of fruity and spicy flavors supported by a soft malt character, a low to moderate alcohol presence and tart sourness. Extremely high attenuation gives a characteristic dry finish. The fruitiness is frequently citrusy (orange- or lemon-like). The addition of one of more spices serve to add complexity, but shouldn’t dominate in the balance. Low peppery yeast-derived phenols may be present instead of or in addition to spice additions; phenols tend to be lower than in many other Belgian beers, and complement the bitterness. Hop flavor is low to moderate, and is generally spicy or earthy in character. Hop bitterness may be moderate to high, but should not overwhelm fruity esters, spices, and malt. Malt character is light but provides a sufficient background for the other flavors. A low to moderate tart sourness may be present, but should not overwhelm other flavors. Spices, hop bitterness and flavor, and sourness commonly increase with the strength of the beer while sweetness decreases. No hot alcohol or solventy character. High carbonation, moderately sulfate water, and high attenuation give a very dry finish with a long, bitter, sometimes spicy aftertaste. The perceived bitterness is often higher than the IBU level would suggest. No diacetyl.
 
Let's make fun of a newbie. How pathetic are you guys? Never mind your help. Thanks anyways.
 
Your probably just gonna have try your beer once its done. Kinda hard to ask advice and be kinda defensive when people reply... your beer could very well be tasty, but you're not really giving people a chance to help you out.
 
Seriously, this is one of the most consistently generous and helpful communities on any topic I have participated in on the internet. If you are getting negative reactions from multiple people on a board like this, the problem may not be with the board, it may be with you.
 
I did read the comments. There was some solid advice in it. I also read the parts where you promoted yourself as unhelp-able.
 
Here is a reminder. Even if a poster makes it seem like a funny or clever response is required, just don't. In the brewing areas, and ESPECIALLY in the beginner areas, please answer only with helpful advice. If there is more that needs asking in order to give a helpful response, ask the OP for clarification.

Poking fun at someone asking a serious question is just a ****** move, isn't helpful, and isn't tolerated. Always assume a poster in the brewing forums are asking a legitimate question, even if it doesn't seem like it at first.
 
Why can't it be malty?
It depends on how concerned you are with brewing "on-style". It's unusual for a saison to be malty. A malty beer brewed with a saison yeast might be better described as a bier de garde, or something similar.
None of that makes it a bad beer, it just might make it a little less of a saison.
 
What do you think:

6lbs. of Pilsen Light DME
1lb. of Wheat DME

1oz. EKG @ 60min.
1/2oz. Perle @ 30min.
1/2oz. Crystal + Irish Moss @ 15min.
1/2oz. Tangerine Peel + 1/4 Cardamom Seed @ 15min.
1/4oz. Perle + 1/4oz. Crystal @ 10min.
1/4oz. Perle + 1/4oz. Crystal @ 3min.

1 packet of Belle Saison yeast
Also, just curious what kind of Wheat DME you used. I tried to do an extract Berliner Weisse a while back, and accidentally used a Bavarian Wheat LME instead of a Belgian Wheat LME, and ended up with a much darker beer than I'd intended.
 

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