Racked on Top of Priming, Still Flat Beers

[brewgasm135]

Hey folks. So I have this dilemma. I have a solution as well. But I would also like some advice and thoughts to round off my experiences.

So I brewed a pumkin wheat ale. I created my priming sugar as normal, 5/8 cup of table sugar, boiled in 1-2 cups water for 10 minutes with some extra pumpkin pie spices for extra flavor. I cooled the solution a bit and dumped it into my bottling bucket. I then proceded to rack my pumpkin wheat ale on top of my priming solution in a swirling motion.

Well, its been 5-6 weeks, and I have a few bottles of perfectly carbonated beer, a couple overly carbonated, and most of them pretty much flat

Everything I have read says to rack on top of priming solution in a swirling motion and it should mix well. That just didn't seem to work out for me. What have I done wrong?!

My solution is simple: Stir racked beer gently (hopefully not aerating) to ensure proper distribution.

I would just like to know if there is anything I have done wrong/differently, as it seems other people have no issues just racking on top of their priming solution.

 

[birvine]

Possibly just not fully carbonated yet. Possibly leaky caps. Possibly incompletely stirred sugar. I carefully stir the beer to mix as much as possible without getting too much o2 into solution.

 

[Revvy]

What temp are you storing them at?

I firmly believe that the not mixing issuse is a myth. The mere racking is enough to integrate the two fluids just fine.

You're talking 2 little teeny cups of liquid being overwhelmed by 5 gallons of liquid of pretty much the same density- It's impossible for it not to be mixed up

We're not talking oil and water, we're talking sugar water and alcoholic sugar water....it's not much difference.

Some beers can take 6-8 weeks or more to fully pop and the fact that a few bottles may be carbed only means that those were a little warmer than the rest of them, NOT that some got more sugar than others.

What folks seem to forget is that when you stick the beer in the bottles, you are sticking them into separate little fermenters.

Each one is it's own little microcosm, a tiny difference in temps between bottles in storage can affect the yeasties, speed them up or slow them down. Like if you store them in a closet against a warm wall, the beers closest to the heat source may be a tad warmer than those further way, so thy may carb/condition at slightly different rates. I usually store a batch in 2 seperate locations in my loft 1 case in my bedroom which is a little warmer, and the other in the closet in the lving room, which being in a larger space is a tad cooler, at least according to the thermostat next to that closet. It can be 5-10 degrees warmer in my bedroom. So I usually start with that case at three weeks. Giving the other half a little more time.

You can split a batch in half put them in 2 identical carboys, and pitch equal amounts of yeast from the same starter...and have them act completely differently...for some reason on a subatomic level...think about it...yeasties are small...1 degree difference in temp to us, could be a 50 degree difference to them...one fermenter can be a couple degrees warmer because it's closer to a vent all the way across the room and the yeasties take off...

Someone, Grinder I think posted a pic once of 2 carboys touching each other, and one one of the carboys the krausen had formed only on the side that touched the other carboy...probably reacting to the heat of the first fermentation....but it was like symbiotic or something...

With living micro-organisms there is always a wildcard factor in play. Two complete fermentations (and bottle conditioning is just another fermentation) can behave differently due to even the slightest change in enviorment, especially temps.

I usually store a batch in 2 seperate locations in my loft 1 case in my bedroom which is a little warmer, and the other in the closet in the lving room, which being in a larger space is a tad cooler, at least according to the thermostat next to that closet. It can be 5-10 degrees warmer in my bedroom. So I usually start with that case at three weeks. Giving the other half a little more time.

Bottom line, it's not that the sugar's not mixed, it's just that they all haven't come up to full carb yet....Three weeks is not the magic number for finality, it's the minimum time it takes....

I've bottled THOUSANDS of gallons of beer, I've never mixed, and I've NEVER not have every single bottle in a batch not be carbed eventually.

One of these days I'm going to make a perfectly clear bottling bucket, color my 2 cups priming solution with food coloring, point 3 different cameras at it from three different angles, rack my beer onto it, so folks can see the color dissipate into the beer, and finally put this nonsense to bed.....

 

[jgerard]

I just bottle prime, despite what some people believe it has provided consistent results. I add sugar to all the bottles before I start filling any with beer.

Also I have had the problem that Ravvy describes, with my most recent beer. I was freaking out because the first two times I opened one for a buddy and myself one was carbed and one wasnt,. I gave them all a little shake and put them in a warmer place for a couple weeks. Every bottle is carbed now!

 

[brewgasm135]

Revvy, I see what you are saying, but.. All my bottles were stored together in the same room, in 24 case boxes. Thinking about it now, its probably been 4 weeks since bottling. It is a pretty high gravity beer 6.5% (I know they are supposed to take longer to carb). To me, it seems it didn't mix properly because some of them were too carbonated, some of them perfect, and the majority basically flat. With them all in the same location, carbonating at room temperature (74 F), you would still suggest they haven't had the time to carbonate?

I also just remembered, when I racked from secondary to bottling bucket, I did transfer a bit of yeast cake. Is it possible that had something to do with this? I guess I am playing the noobie role of lack of patience.

 

[brewgasm135]

Hmm.. that first six pack I chilled and took with me was stored in a six pack holder and not in a 24 case box surrounded with other beers. That 6 pack was carbed up, the rest it seems aren't. I guess that would account for a bit of different temperature. The more I think about it, the more it seems to make sense. It's too bad I've wasted half of that batch, just cracking a couple open every day hoping I'd find another carbonated one. I figured the priming solution didn't mix well. I'll try one today, then leave the rest alone for a week. Try one next week, and continue with that until hopefully they'll all carb. Patience is def the hardest part of brewing in the begining. No matter how many times I've read it, I still fall for it.

 

[Revvy]

Revvy, I see what you are saying, but.. All my bottles were stored together in the same room, in 24 case boxes. Thinking about it now, its probably been 4 weeks since bottling. It is a pretty high gravity beer 6.5% (I know they are supposed to take longer to carb). To me, it seems it didn't mix properly because some of them were too carbonated, some of them perfect, and the majority basically flat. With them all in the same location, carbonating at room temperature (74 F), you would still suggest they haven't had the time to carbonate?

I also just remembered, when I racked from secondary to bottling bucket, I did transfer a bit of yeast cake. Is it possible that had something to do with this? I guess I am playing the noobie role of lack of patience.

It doesn't matter if they were all in the same room together....bottles 3 rows apart could be closer of farther away from a heat source or a cold wall, and that TINY bit of difference is enough to change the time needed.

I purposefully rack a little yeast over into my bottling bucket since I do month long primaries, and that dissipates into the fluid just as well.

Like I've said, I've never had inconsistant carbonation, or a difference between bottles once the bottles are ready.

Hundreds of threads on here where people thought the same thing as you, blamed the same thing as you, and I've YET to come upon a thread where the op didn;t come back after a few weeks and say that they weren't ALL carbed up. (Unless they were fliptops- often seals leak on those.)

I vote for impatience.....this is a hotly debate subject, but I've never had the problem in years of bottling my beers.

 

[brewgasm135]

Thanks Revvy, I'll let experience trump my noobish impatient thoughts.

 

[kyle6286]

My second batch, a Belgian witbier, had this exact problem. I had a few at the beginning that were carbed nicely, and gave me that pop sound when I opened them. Then, there were a bunch that I opened that were hardly carbonated. I felt like I had to agitate them in their bottles to get even a little bit of head when I poured them. This was after waiting a few weeks as recommended on here. After drinking about 10 flat beers (which, to be honest, taste like ****), I decided to leave the rest of them alone.

My usual process is after I feel I've waited long enough for the bottles to carbonate, I place a couple in the fridge at a time for a day or two. This time, after waiting a good month and letting them sit in a warm room, I took some out and threw them in the fridge for a whole week. Coincidentally, I believe all of those beers were carbed perfectly and turned out delicious. I'm attributing it to more time required for the beers to carbonate as well as more time in the fridge to let the Co2 dissolve. Either way, I'd listen to Revvy and wait a little longer. For my current batch, I'm going to test this out. After a few weeks of conditioning, I'll take a couple bottles and put them in the fridge. I'll try one after two days in the fridge and the other after a week in the fridge. I'm curious to see the results.

 

[BeerChef17]

yeah just give it some time...same happened with my pumpkin ale last week...for starters I thought the room temp was warmer then it was. Anywho, they were all flat. I moved a case to my room (which is mush warmer than my basement) and took 2 with me on my weekend excursion for my buddy to taste. Needless to say at the end of the weekend the beer was more carbed than just 2 days prior from being in a slightly warmer location. Give 'em some time and you'll be fine.

Also on your other question - if you want to stir after racking go ahead. Just be sure to be gentle and not splash or cause air bubbles to form in your beer.

 

[brewgasm135]

For anyone who has this problem and wants a conclusion:

Patience is a virtue... They are all carbed up now. BUT, my last one of my PET Liter bottles def had A LOT more carbonation than the rest of my batch. I think I bottled that last, if I recall correctly. It also was sweeter and had more pumpkin spice to hit. But moral of the story... wait, and wait... and if some are still flat, wait some more. Easier said than done the first run or two it seems, lol.

 

[jIM_Ohio]

How long should beer be bottled before consumption? My instructions for batch 1 suggested 2 weeks. Brew beer, ferment 2 weeks, then bottle beer and let set in bottle for two weeks.

 

[JeffoC6]

How long should beer be bottled before consumption? My instructions for batch 1 suggested 2 weeks. Brew beer, ferment 2 weeks, then bottle beer and let set in bottle for two weeks.

I'm sure other's with more experience on here will offer your a better opinion, but everything I've read says at LEAST 3 weeks at 70 degrees...Then, put in the fridge for a few days. But the longer you wait, the better.

 

[BamaRooster]

I'm sure other's with more experience on here will offer your a better opinion, but everything I've read says at LEAST 3 weeks at 70 degrees...Then, put in the fridge for a few days. But the longer you wait, the better.

+1 3 weeks for carb and min 2 days in the fridge, 2 weeks is better for head retention..

 

[Revvy]

How long should beer be bottled before consumption? My instructions for batch 1 suggested 2 weeks. Brew beer, ferment 2 weeks, then bottle beer and let set in bottle for two weeks.

As much as instructions and recipes might say something, yeast can't read, so two weeks, 1 week, 3 weeks means nothing to them. A beer takes as along as it needs to to ferment, or to condition or two carb, and it's usually longer than pieces of paper say....

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah,that's why I've been preaching about this sort of thing. My experiences show that beers of average gravity can carb decent in 3 weeks. But more like 4-5 weeks for full carbonation & proper conditiong.
But my higher gravity Burton ale took longer,being a 1.065OG with darker malts & such. It was bottled on 11/13/11,& took till Christmas to carb & condition well. Not to mention,also having had about 2 weeks fridge time.
For all my ales,I've found 2 weeks fridge time after proper conditioning time at room temps gives thicker head,& longer lasting carbonation. Big beers can take that same amount of time to get proper head/carbonation to start with.
Patience is def needed here.