Quickest wild ferment you liked?

[Miraculix]

Hi there!

Just for curiosity, what is your quickest recipe (talking about the time it takes till it is drinkable) which uses wild fermentation?

Lambic is quite a long story thing and so are most other wild beverages I read about, except real ginger ale.

So what is the quickest one you guys know about?

Thanks!

Miraculix

 

[oli-aus]

Saison yeast + bugs in primary with a medium gravity pale wort.
Saison yeast will carry the beer to terminal gravity so it's safe to bottle but the bugs will continue to express them selves with time.
Using French saison yeast you could probably bottle in a couple of weeks, especially if you use champagne bottles.

 

[Dcpcooks]

What do you mean by wild? Spontaneous inoculation?
Brett, pedio and lacto?
Mixed fermentation?

 

[Electrake]

belle saison w/brett A and 1lb per gallon of blueberries

 

[Mainer]

If you mean truly wild (like local airborne bugs) I don't know.
But if just mean sour, I make a 3.5% Berliner Weisse that I bottle in under three weeks and drink in under four.

Edit: without kettle souring.

 

[Miraculix]

Thanks for the answers, I mean truly wild. Either air borne or via fruits, for example apples and plums cary nice mixes of yeasts on their skin

So no added bought yeast.

 

[crane]

When you are talking about spontaneous fermentation I don't think the recipe or other ingredients will have much impact on how fast it will develop (besides limiting your ibus). The wild yeast and bugs that the wort pick up will have the largest impact on when the beer will develop desirable flavors. If you want something predictably fast, them you are better off controlling what yeast and bugs you pitch.

 

[Dcpcooks]

Thanks for the answers, I mean truly wild. Either air borne or via fruits, for example apples and plums cary nice mixes of yeasts on their skin



So no added bought yeast.

Your looking at 4 months before you can safely sample the fermentation. Basically you'll get some bacteria in the first few months of a spontaneous fermentation. Some of it can make it you sick, so some caution is needed.

I did a 15 gallon batch of spontaneous inoculation on 5/13/17. I have not sampled it yet and probably won't until 9/15. It's chugging along a clean barrel and I'm looking at roughly one year for it to cycle through the various stages of fermentation.

It's not something you can really rush until you know what's in your area.

 

[Miraculix]

Your looking at 4 months before you can safely sample the fermentation. Basically you'll get some bacteria in the first few months of a spontaneous fermentation. Some of it can make it you sick, so some caution is needed.

I did a 15 gallon batch of spontaneous inoculation on 5/13/17. I have not sampled it yet and probably won't until 9/15. It's chugging along a clean barrel and I'm looking at roughly one year for it to cycle through the various stages of fermentation.

It's not something you can really rush until you know what's in your area.

Thanks for the input! But what is about ginger beer or ginger ale? The original is done with a ginger bug which is an a few days old wildly fermented starter. The ale itself is then fermented for 2 to 5 days and than its done und should be consumed quickly. Done like this since ages, never heard that it is dangerous though. Does the ginger make the difference?

 

[Sourz4life]

You can do spontaneous beers and turn them around in a few months. The traditional spontaneous method followed by Belgian brewers creates a rugged wort with complex 5 chain sugars, allowing for stages of fermentation, which ends in Brett cleaning everything up which in turn takes so much time. But if you go the route De Garde goes you can play with your wort and use that to spontaneously ferment. I've done this myself at least a dozen times but you can make a wort with a lower mash temp and control the souring speed with hops. Chances are you won't get Brett in your spontaneous beer as its actually pretty rare from air inoculation, it just is in those types of brew houses already and possibly their barrels which is how it makes its way in. Limit your O2 at all costs like any spontaneous beers to avoid mold. Bacteria generally does their thing pretty quick actually although the myth is they take long periods of time to grow and create acid which just isn't true, especially wild ones. In most of the spontaneous's I've done this way I get the Sacc/other yeast ferment up front, then bacterial is what continues after this. It ranges in time either way but you can have a much quicker turn around beer. Also drop the pH to 4.5 to skip the enterobacteria phase

 

[Miraculix]

You can do spontaneous beers and turn them around in a few months. The traditional spontaneous method followed by Belgian brewers creates a rugged wort with complex 5 chain sugars, allowing for stages of fermentation, which ends in Brett cleaning everything up which in turn takes so much time. But if you go the route De Garde goes you can play with your wort and use that to spontaneously ferment. I've done this myself at least a dozen times but you can make a wort with a lower mash temp and control the souring speed with hops. Chances are you won't get Brett in your spontaneous beer as its actually pretty rare from air inoculation, it just is in those types of brew houses already and possibly their barrels which is how it makes its way in. Limit your O2 at all costs like any spontaneous beers to avoid mold. Bacteria generally does their thing pretty quick actually although the myth is they take long periods of time to grow and create acid which just isn't true, especially wild ones. In most of the spontaneous's I've done this way I get the Sacc/other yeast ferment up front, then bacterial is what continues after this. It ranges in time either way but you can have a much quicker turn around beer. Also drop the pH to 4.5 to skip the enterobacteria phase

Thanks for the insight, much appreciated!

I never heard of de Garde before, just googled them, sounds like those guys are pretty awesome! Will try to get hold of some of their beer here in the UK.

I never had the idea of just mashing in favour of shorter sugars to create an environment that would be easier to digest for the non Brett yeast. This is actually a pretty good idea, I will try this very soon.
I googled a bit regarding brett and found out that they are naturally occurring on fruits. As other yeasts of course as well. I think I will find myself some wild plums or apples and will infect a few starters with those and then pick the best smelling one and brew with it. This will surely not give me the whole lambic brett two stage fermentation thing, but it will make sure there is a nice mix of yeasts present. And who knows, maybe brett will also contribute a little bit.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Sourz4life]

No problem. And Brett can be found on fruits but as a heads up its actually few and far between. Out of the thousands of captures I've done, I've only ever isolated one true Brett strain. Had it identified as Brett B, found it on a apple actually. But either way, fruit isn't a bad idea as you'll definitely get some sort of wild yeast.

 

[Dcpcooks]

Thanks for the input! But what is about ginger beer or ginger ale? The original is done with a ginger bug which is an a few days old wildly fermented starter. The ale itself is then fermented for 2 to 5 days and than its done und should be consumed quickly. Done like this since ages, never heard that it is dangerous though. Does the ginger make the difference?

I can't speak to ginger beer as I've never made one. I can tell you a spontaneous inoculation will not be done in weeks. It's a very slow process as your yeast concentration is very small. You'll pick up anything that's in the air that includes salmonella, E. coli and enterobacter sacc yeast and brett yeast and mold spores.

The reason it takes time is you are not pitching a huge amount of sacc yeast. The large pitch means the sacc yeast can survive and thrive because it's got a huge advantage and consumes the sugars quickly. That limits the ability of other bugs competing for the sugars. This limits their growth potential. Once the sacc yeast takes control you'll have a higher alcohol content and a PH that limits the other competing organisms.