Questions about Saison Yeast and Starting Temp

[ImpatientBrewer]

This will be my second go at it, my first I used Vintners SN9 and while I enjoyed the results, it ended up very dry (which makes sense due to that particular yeast being used). This time I am using Mangrove Jack's M02 and Lallemand Belle Saison.

Does anybody have experience using Saison (or non-ale/cider/wine) yeasts?

I'm going to use concentrate for both batches. I believe I read something here about getting a different result if you add the yeast while the juice is cold. Is this the case?

Cheers

 

[WilliamSlayer]

This will be my second go at it, my first I used Vintners SN9 and while I enjoyed the results, it ended up very dry (which makes sense due to that particular yeast being used). This time I am using Mangrove Jack's M02 and Lallemand Belle Saison.

Does anybody have experience using Saison (or non-ale/cider/wine) yeasts?

I'm going to use concentrate for both batches. I believe I read something here about getting a different result if you add the yeast while the juice is cold. Is this the case?

Cheers

If you are looking to enhance you cider with saison (its an ale yeast btw) yeast you want to keep it happy, just like all yeasts. Saison esters and phenols require hot temps (relatively speaking). Look to ferment in the upper 70's or low 80's. Use yeast nutrient, but don't over add nutrient as your yeast will be very active with the high temperatures.

You will get some of the saison profile added to your cider this way.

I would not add the yeast to a cold must. It can shock them (thermal shock) which causes them to release off flavors. Bring your must up to room temp at least so the yeast don't shock.

Good luck!

 

[ImpatientBrewer]

Look to ferment in the upper 70's or low 80's. Use yeast nutrient, but don't over add nutrient as your yeast will be very active with the high temperatures.

Will 65 cause any ill-effects? I'm trying to keep my heating bill down and it seems to be doing pretty well (kraussen starting to form, bubbles every few seconds, etc).

 

[crabbyapple]

I've had decent luck with Saison yeast, which adds some unique flavor profiles. I will say that 3711 has performed the best for me in cider. It will chomp through your must with no issues at mid 60s, no heat required. Some of the more picky strains (I'm looking at you, DuPont) have given me less than stellar results, with just too much banana and/or butterscotch. I'm just not sure that 80 degrees agrees with must as well as it does with wort, regardless of yeast.

 

[WilliamSlayer]

Will 65 cause any ill-effects? I'm trying to keep my heating bill down and it seems to be doing pretty well (kraussen starting to form, bubbles every few seconds, etc).

Glad to hear you've got a healthy ferment !! No you should have no problems at 65 degrees, however your" saison" profile will be a bit dampened.

 

[crabbyapple]

No you should have no problems at 65 degrees, however your" saison" profile will be a bit dampened.

That depends on the Saison yeast that you use. The 3711 that I mentioned in the post above is meant to sit in primary at upper 60s to low 70s. I've used it in must and wort and gotten good saison character. It's the pickier yeasts that really need the temp bump, and even then you can get most of the character from the ferment by pitching, waiting 24h and bumping up the temperature for 48h, then letting it drift again.

 

[WilliamSlayer]

That depends on the Saison yeast that you use. The 3711 that I mentioned in the post above is meant to sit in primary at upper 60s to low 70s. I've used it in must and wort and gotten good saison character. It's the pickier yeasts that really need the temp bump, and even then you can get most of the character from the ferment by pitching, waiting 24h and bumping up the temperature for 48h, then letting it drift again.

I have used 3711 and agree its a good saison yeast. However, I'd still recommend a temp in the mid 70's. We are talking to a brewing style developed during summer harvest months, aand I feell you get a truer saison with those "summer" fermentation temps. Just my two cents.