question about malolactic conversion

[Ty520]

I really enjoy buttery chardonnay, and have been curious to see if that same butteriness could be successfully achieved in other alcoholic beverages. I understand the basic process (malolactic conversion), but not how it works based on the ingredients.

FYI: I plan to couple this with the use of honey and caramelization which also instill the buttery quality i'm searching for from diacetyl

 

[bracconiere]

i'm just going to post an idea to automatically watch....


have you tried aging on oak?

 

[Ty520]

i'm just going to post an idea to automatically watch....


have you tried aging on oak?

I did do a vanilla mead with a light char oak spiral that had a subtle buttery quality - but I am trying to go for a really big hit of flavor; I'll probably combine another oak spiral and caramelized honey in addition

 

[bracconiere]

I did do a vanilla mead with a light char oak spiral that had a subtle buttery quality - but I am trying to go for a really big hit of flavor; I'll probably combine another oak spiral and caramelized honey in addition

they sell maple chips for smoking also....


edit: and i didn't know you were trying to make mead at first......i've got a really oxidized cider on tap, very buttery/brown appley....balances the tartness of the juice, not sure if it would be a winner in a comp though....could try letting a few apple slices turn brown tossing them into a mead.....

 

[Ty520]

they sell maple chips for smoking also....


edit: and i didn't know you were trying to make mead at first......i've got a really oxidized cider on tap, very buttery/brown appley....balances the tartness of the juice, not sure if it would be a winner in a comp though....could try letting a few apple slices turn brown tossing them into a mead.....

I am simultaneously researching this while this thread comes together, and the idea of apples did come up; also maybe even adding chardonnay grapes.

I am seeing that vintners do add malolactic culture to their chardonnays, so the question now is, what is added in conjunction to convert the malic acid to lactic acid? or does it get it from the grapes.

In that case, adding some apple or even chardonnay juice might be in order...?

 

[bracconiere]

it would lose one mole of acetic acid in the process is all i can tell......

edit: lactic acid bacteria? something called Schizosaccharomyces

 

[Ty520]

it would lose one mole of acetic acid in the process is all i can tell......

edit: lactic acid bacteria? something called Schizosaccharomyces

yes, it requires introducing a bacteria.

from what i have surmised, the malolactic bacteria converts malic acid naturally present in grapes (or apples) to lactic acid. Both malolactic cultures and malic acid are sold by my lcoal brewer supply store.

 

[S-Met]

Not quite sure where you are going with this, Beer, cider, wine, mead or...?

Apples and grapes both have malic acid. If beer, you could intentionally add malic acid then add malolactic bacteria, however, I know residual sugar in wines going through malolactic conversion can give off flavors. Not sure how that works with beer, and it would probably be easier to get the buttery flavors from yeasts with high diacetyl and skip the D-rest.

For all other fermentations, make sure you have a healthy, nutrients rich fermentation, stressed yeasts will give off flavors during MLC. Crap in = crap out. H2S may adversely affect MLC. Pitch MLB and aim for PH of 3.0-3.2, SO2 around 10-20ppm post fermentation and temps around 70f.

Hope this helps.

 

[Ty520]

Not quite sure where you are going with this, Beer, cider, wine, mead or...?

Apples and grapes both have malic acid. If beer, you could intentionally add malic acid then add malolactic bacteria, however, I know residual sugar in wines going through malolactic conversion can give off flavors. Not sure how that works with beer, and it would probably be easier to get the buttery flavors from yeasts with high diacetyl and skip the D-rest.

For all other fermentations, make sure you have a healthy, nutrients rich fermentation, stressed yeasts will give off flavors during MLC. Crap in = crap out. H2S may adversely affect MLC. Pitch MLB and aim for PH of 3.0-3.2, SO2 around 10-20ppm post fermentation and temps around 70f.

Hope this helps.

I intend to try it on a mead.i spoke south a vintner who recommended aging malic acid during primary,and malolactic in secondary.

What strains of yeast have high diacetyl and would be suitable in a mead?

 

[S-Met]

https://www.whitelabs.com/beer/diacetyl-time-line
This might help, but I don't know if it still applies to meads. Mead is historically low in nutrients and difficult to ferment (edit) meaning stressful for yhe yeast without proper nutrients