Pyment Question

[Yankeehillbrewer]

Hi All,

Been away from these forums and brewing for many years. Got back into for a little bit and then life happened as it tends to do. Anyhow, a co-worker has tons of grapes on her property. No real clue on what they are, possibly Himrod from the little research I have done. They are a green,small grape, and fairly tart. I juiced some tonight and strained them out a bit, got a gravity of 1.048. I probably have 40lbs of grapes still in bunches. I'm trying to plan a recipe, but I've mostly made beer, and I'm not really sure how to calculate the combination of grape juice and Honey. I'm thinking of doing a 3 gallon batch, with 10lbs of Honey, and whatever Juice I get from these grapes. It will be a PITA, but I plan to Juice and Strain the grapes. I know that 10lbs of Honey should give an OG of 1.150

So, for arguments sake, let's say I get 3 Gallons of Juice and add the 10lbs of honey to it. How do I calculate my OG? Is it simply 1.048 + 1.150? 1.198 is obviously a ridiculous starting gravity, and if that is what it would be I'd want to adjust that down quite a bit, I'd like to be in the 15% range.

I did find The Mead Calculator, but would love any input you might have.

Appreciate the help!

 

[CKuhns]

That sounds about right. Sugar content is cumulative.

A 15% ABV is about 1.115 OG if fermented to 1.000. So 1.048 from the grapes + 2 pounds of honey in each gallon would give you near 15%. NOTE - 1 pound of honey to a gallon of water total volume is equivalent to about .035 gravity points.

Simple and quick ABV calc is OG - expected FG = sugar consumed and sugar consumed X 131.25 = ABV

Example 1.115 OG - 1.000 expected FG = 0.115 and 0.115 X 131.25 = 15.09 ABV. This is accurate to plus or minus a couple of tenths. Dependent upon temperature and actual amount of water in the honey.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

Thanks, We'll see how much juice I get out these grapes, and I'll adjust from there.

 

[Kent88]

Sounds like fun. Keep us posted, please.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

Sounds like fun. Keep us posted, please.

Will do, I'm kinda excited to see what I come up with

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

So far I'm at 30lbs of grapes. I'm thinking that should be plenty. Did a little research and it seems that anywhere from 7-10% of that could become juice. So at best I could be looking at 3 gallons of juice. I still probably have another 15lbs or so that I have not separated from the stems yet.

What is y'alls experience with how much Juice you get from a pound of grapes?

I'm thinking I should get to making this next weekend, still have to get Honey and yeast, and need to get all my gear cleaned up.

Cheers!

 

[loveofrose]

The way I’ve done pyments is to use 3-4 lbs of grapes per gallon. Freeze, thaw, crush and add to a carboy lined with a BIAB.

Add 2-2.8 lbs of honey per gallon depending on if you want dry or sweet. Mix well.

Here is an example:

Moscupelo (Moscato Tupelo) BOMM

I stumbled across some excellent moscato grapes with a wonderful fragrance. Just too good for simply eating. I started tasting my honey collection to find something complimentary

Moscato BOMM - 2.5 gallons

1. Freeze 7 lbs of fresh Moscato grapes in a gallon plastic bag.
2. Thaw and crush the grapes in the sealed bag. Add to carboy.
3. Add 7 lbs of Tupelo honey to carboy.
4. Add 2 tsp Fermaid O, 1 tsp Fermaid K, 2 tsp Pectinase and 0.5 tsp K2CO3. Add 2 tsp Fermaid O at Day 2 & 4.
5. Add water to half gallon and swirl vigorously until honey is dissolved.
6. Add 1 oz of Medium Toast Hungarian Oak cubes and water to 1/2 cup shy of a gallon.
7. Add a smack pack of Wyeast 1388.
8. It should finish around 1.005.
9. Rack off fruit into secondary.
10. Add tartaric acid to taste. For me it was 0.4 g/Liter.

Specs
SG 1.125-1.135
FG ~1.005
16% ABV

Needs tartaric acid at 0.4 g/Liter or 1.5 g per gallon.
1. Add 3 grams to 50 ml tube.
2. Add 10 ml water and dissolve.
3. Add 5 ml per gallon.

Also add 0.5 tsp pectinase per gallon.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

loveofrose, thank you for taking the time to type up. What is the sugar content of Moscato grapes? I gotta say that I like the idea of not having to juice these things. You're getting 2.5 gallons of finished pyment with this recipe?

Thanks again, much appreciated!

 

[loveofrose]

Sugar content is a bit lower with Moscato grapes, but the tannins from the skins off sets the sweetness of this particular pyment. You don’t want to juice the grapes because the skins contain the nice tannins that give structure and mouthfeel.

Overall yield with this recipe was around 2 gallons. Fruit pulp does take up a lot of space, but worth it!

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

great thanks. One more kinda silly question, are you taking an actual SG reading or just calculating it? seems like it might be kind of tough to get a true reading on a hydrometer with all that stuff in the fermenter.

 

[Kent88]

A Hydrometer is the best way to go, especially when you are dealing with whole fruit and/or juice from said fruit.

 

[Seamonkey84]

When the BOMM protocol is followed, wyeast 1388 goes through 120 gravity points very consistently. Still the hydrometer to measure the juice and honey water mix will give you a fairly accurate readin.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

So I think I will go with 9lbs of honey, 7lbs of crushed grapes for a 3 Gallon volume, that should put me at an SG of 1.125. Not sure what the local homebrew shop has for yeast but if they do have 1388 I will go with that. Will also add the Fermaid & Pecitnase at the start of fermentation then Tartaric Acid if necessary after some taste tests. Shooting to do this on Sunday, thanks again to all of you for all the pointers!

 

[loveofrose]

If you use a different yeast, you will need to adjust honey amounts for that particular yeasts ABV tolerance. Post here if you need help.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

1388 is a Belgian Strong Ale yeast?

 

[Seamonkey84]

Yes, the BOMM (Brays One Month Mead post pinned to the top of forum) protocol was developed by loveofroses around that yeast. it was selected out of many trials as a clean and neutral yeast, for a fast delicious mead. My first few gallons were started in May, they are already gone.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

Cool thanks, that threw me off a bit. Looks like one of the homebrew shops in my area stocks it.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

yet another question.....got to thinking about water today. I wouldn't dare use the local water for brewing, it's way too hard. Eventually I will send off a sample, but in the meantime I will plan on using 100% RO water when I make beer. We run our water through a Softener & Carbon Filter, I imagine it would be best that I don't use softened water in Mead(too high of sodium levels)? Should i just use RO water and add some Calcium Chloride and Gypsum like I would when making Beer? the little research I have done shows me water isn't a huge concern considering pH is decent, but I haven't seen much mention of using softened water.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

Made this a couple of hours ago, wound up getting some really nice local honey from Parma, ID. just said Local Flora on it. Didn't quite get my volumes right, but I wound up at 1.132 and about 3.5 gallons. I had some Fermax on hand still, so I used 3 tsp of that. I'm a bit concerned because the Fermax really smelled wretched, but I didn't get a whiff of it until after I tossed it in the Fermenter, and I just realized that I missed the K2CO3. It would appear that my reading comprehension isn't so good anymore, lol. Hope it turns out ok.

 

[Seamonkey84]

You’ve voided the BOMM warranty, but you should still be fine. Just may not be ready to drink in a month.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

Things seem to be moving right along, I've been degassing everyday for a little bit, just swirling the fermenter for 30 seconds or so. Lots of fizzing which I assume is a good sign of Fermentation, I was expecting something similar to a Krausen, but all the grapes skins are floating so I suppose not. Got some fresh Fermax from the HBS, and according to them Fermax and Fermaid are basically the same thing just from different manufacturers. I also noticed that the new Fermax had a similar smell to the old stuff I had on hand, so I'm not concerned about that anymore. They didn't have any Potassium Carbonate so I'll just have to do without. Smells great so far! Apologies if these posts are kind of silly, I'm excited to be back in the brewing game.

 

[madscientist451]

Hi All,

Anyhow, a co-worker has tons of grapes on her property. No real clue on what they are, possibly Himrod from the little research I have done. They are a green,small grape, and fairly tart. I juiced some tonight and strained them out a bit, got a gravity of 1.048. I probably have 40lbs of grapes still in bunches.

From here, it looks like the grapes you used were not ripe yet. Maybe your pyment will suit your taste, but if it doesn't, next time use properly ripened fruit.
Everyone has different taste, but for me the taste of fermented unripe fruit is somewhat harsh, usually over-acidic and not really pleasant.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

From here, it looks like the grapes you used were not ripe yet. Maybe your pyment will suit your taste, but if it doesn't, next time use properly ripened fruit.
Everyone has different taste, but for me the taste of fermented unripe fruit is somewhat harsh, usually over-acidic and not really pleasant.

Appreciate the input, she seemed to think they were ripe, but I was/am a little concerned about the tartness. The bunches were pretty inconsistent, some were nice, some were tart, I guess that's sign of them not really being ready? Hopefully the higher ratio of Honey to Grapes will offset some of that. We'll find out here soon.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

Just a little update, pulled the fruit out of the Fermenter today, didn't rack to a secondary because I don't have one. I just cleaned and sanitized a strainer and scooped it out. I think that will be a good thing because my hydrometer sample was at 1.030, so hopefully the yeast can chew through a few more points. Sample was a little bit too sweet, but awfully tasty. Just a hint of tartness, and a slight bitterness, but very nice hints of Honey and Grape. All in all I'm pretty happy, will just let it sit for a while, and hope that the yeast still has some life left in it, I'm sure it's pretty stressed at this point.

 

[Seamonkey84]

Once it is clear, you can rack it into a bucket or pitchers, clean your carboy, then rack back into it. Do not pour it back in, that will mix in oxygen.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

Once it is clear, you can rack it into a bucket or pitchers, clean your carboy, then rack back into it. Do not pour it back in, that will mix in oxygen.

Thanks, I'll probably pick up a 3 Gallon Carboy to let it age in for a bit before I bottle it

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

Well it only managed to drop another point or so. Pulled another sample and it's at 1.029. Not quite where I wanted to end up but I think I will just leave it be. I suppose I could pitch some champagne yeast, but it's pretty tasty as is, just a touch sweet, and needs to clear out a bit still.....