Purpose of Corn in Flanders recipes?

[smokinghole]

I notice many Flanders recipes include maize. What is the purpose of that as an ingredient? I have read Wild Brews but it doesn't explain the use of maize much if at all. I always thought corn to be a rather flavorless adjunct that is just used to boost fermentables in a cheap way. If that's the case why not just replace the corn with some sugar?

Main reason I'm asking is I am inclined to brew these recipes sans corn depending on its impact.

I have some ECY cultures just eating a hole in my fridge door to get into some wort. So I am making plans to do up a brown and red ale in the very near future.

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

I don't think I've ever seen a flanders style beer using corn. Most recipes are primarily Vienna, Munich, and Pilsner malt.

Regardless...if a majority of recipes call for corn in any given style, there's usually a reason behind it. Corn does add a unique flavor to beer, although subtle. It shouldn't be replaced with sugar.

 

[Calder]

I don't have my copy of WB with me. If it's in there, it is probably due to tradition, back to the days when they used whatever was available.

I'd replace it with wheat, Oats, or more 2-row in the mash (in that order of preference). Pretty much any mashable grain rather than plain sugar to get the unfermentable sugars.

 

[smokinghole]

I was just using sugar as an example. If I was to leave it out of a recipe I'd replace it with malt. Anyway, I guess it's where i'm looking at recipes. Wild Brews has maize listed as an ingredient in profiles of both East Flanders brown, and West Flanders red. All the recipes in the back of the book also include maize. Then in our own recipe database the Landers Fred recipe has maize. I just figure that with the very subtle flavor of corn it'd be lost in the complexity once things go sour.

 

[thebadpun]

For what it's worth, Rodenbach uses corn in their mash. Home Brew Digest has a very interesting article on the Rodenbach process composed by Peter Bouckaert in 1996.

http://hbd.org/brewery/library/Rodnbch.html

On Corn:
"As starch adjunct corngrits is used in amounts around 10-12% for economical and taste aspects. Beer brewed with some starch adjunct gives a lighter, more digestable beer Almost all Belgian beers use some corngrits or rice."

 

[caiafa]

In non-lambic brews, corn is mostly used in a small amount in belgian dark strongs. People say it adds some stickiness to mouth feel, helping to retain more flavor in your mouth.

Maybe it's the same for lambics.

 

[Almighty]

I also wondered the same thing and found a reference that I can't currently find.

Supposedly this has been used by Rodenbach to give the bugs some starch to chew on through the long fermentation.

I'll try to find the reference.

 

[statseeker]

Wouldnt the unfermentables from the mash do the same thing though? The brett and bacteria are far outstripped in growth rate by the sacc so they get the leftovers. Do corn starches last longer?

 

[thebadpun]

The reference is an article composed by Peter Bouckaert in 1996. Pretty good read actually.

"As starch adjunct corngrits is used in amounts around 10-12% for economical and taste aspects. Beer brewed with some starch adjunct gives a lighter, more digestable beer Almost all Belgian beers use some corngrits or rice. "

http://brewery.org/brewery/library/Rodnbch.html

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I thought Wild Brews (maybe it is Brew Like A Monk) talked about how Belgium taxed beer based upon the mash size so a lot of breweries did cereal mashes (with corn) to reduce the taxes on the beer. It also helps thin out/dry out the beer.

 

[smokinghole]

http://brewery.org/brewery/library/Rodnbch.html

Here is a link someone sent me as a PM because they are a new member they couldn't post the link. I haven't read it yet since I'm at school today but it might be in there.

 

[Almighty]

thebadpun also sent it to me - thanks
here is the quote:
"As starch adjunct corngrits is used in amounts around 10-12% for economical and taste aspects. Beer brewed with some starch adjunct gives a lighter, more digestable beer Almost all Belgian beers use some corngrits or rice. "

But here is the reference I was looking for. From Jeff Sparrow's BYO article
http://www.byo.com/stories/beer-styles/article/indices/11-beer-styles/659-flanders-red-ale

"Flanders acid ale brewers toss corn grits — up to 20% — into the mash, first boiled to achieve gelatinization. For homebrewers, flaked maize is a convenient alternative. Corn contributes a smoothness to the wort plus a bit of starch for the eventual microorganisms.

While not common in Flanders, Wyeast Laboratories has found the use of unmalted wheat very beneficial. The starches found in unmalted wheat contribute more complex material than malted barley or corn that will also break down more slowly, providing fuel for the yeast and bacteria over a long period of fermentation. You can use up to 20% unmalted wheat in place of the corn.

I tried Flaked Corn in my Flanders this year so I'll let you know in 8 months if I can tell if it has an effect.
http://jeffreycrane.blogspot.com/2011/07/sour-beer-2011-flanders-red.html

 

[smokinghole]

So I was at a store today that was rich in ethnic foods. I picked up purple maize to use in a flanders recipe. I figure it will give a bad ass purple color, should provide a little more flavor, and it's not ****ty yellow corn. I just have a strong prejudice against the genetically bred yellow corn that is used in everything now.

So has anyone used or know someone who has used purple maize in a beer?

 

[Almighty]

I thought about it after seeing the BrewMasters show on chicha.
But I haven't done it yet. How are you going to mill it?
And then you will have to do a cereal mash.

But I agree that it should give the beer a great purple highlight.

 

[smokinghole]

I'm going to find a way to grind it to a grits like consistency. Maybe just multiple passes through my three roller mill if it will go through. If not I will find another way to grind it, then I'll do the separate cereal mash.

After looking at pictures of the drinks made with this corn I'm second guessing the color of this stuff. I have it figured for like 80srm, but I'm starting to think that's a bit light. What I might do is get a hold of the ASBC method to figure the color since I have access to a spectrometer at school.

 

[ryane]

if you find out the asbc method Id be interested in knowing it, I have access to a spectrophotometer as well.

 

[smokinghole]

I might be signing up with an academic account for access to some testing methods. I just need to get my advisor to sign the form it appears.

 

[smokinghole]

http://www.enotes.com/topic/Standard_Reference_Method

Found this. I'm doing my analysis tomorrow of my purple maize. I'll grind it down tonight boil it in a flask tomorrow to extract the color, rough filter, and centrifuge to clear.

 

[smokinghole]

Now for the results of my analysis of the corn. I ground ~25g of corn and placed it in 250ml of DI water. I heated and stirred it on a plate at 80C to mimic the highest mash temp/sparge temp. Based on the above protocol I got just a hair less than 30srm. So it could be darker. I need to find the true method for analyzing malt and the water/malt ratios they use. I'm happy to know what the color well at least ballpark wise.

The color is super purple though. It's a 30srm purple and I think will be rather cool to use in a flanders sour.

 

[ryane]

sounds pretty cool, when you get the actual method I would love to see it as well

I tried logging onto the ASBC journal through my university, and thats one we dont have access to unfortunately. It sounds like yours does? or are you and your advisor buying a subscription?

 

[smokinghole]

I might be buying a subscription. The brewery I count yeast for might have access as well. However I doubt they have access to the testing methods. I do have the Bamforth book "A Quality Perspective" in the library I will glance through that again tomorrow to see if he discloses malt analysis with any specificity.

 

[ryane]

Ive come across a link that discusses IBU measurement using a spectrophotometer if you interested

http://beersensoryscience.wordpress.com/2011/04/05/the-ibu-assay/

 

[smokinghole]

I looked into doing the ASBC method for bitterness testing but the alcohols are expensive. The place I'm working with wasn't super interested in paying for them and the school didn't want to so I could do the testing either.