Pumpkin Ale

[cobbler6]

Going to try the MidWest Pumpkin Ale - my question is on fermentation - how long for the first fermentation before transferring to second fermentation - can I transfer and do second fermentation in plastic bucket or use glass carboy and for how long - do I transfer out just the liquid or solids also ?

 

[aceinthehole]

I just brewed up my pumpkin ale kit from midwest on sunday. I plan on letting it sit in the primary for 2 weeks, and then racking to secondary for about a week before I bottle. The reason to transfer to a secondary it to help clear the beer us, especially for me, as I added about 60 oz. of pumpkin to my brew kettle. I'm just a noob, so take that for what its worth, but I think my plan is a good one for me.

 

[mjperry24]

I just brewed up my pumpkin ale kit from midwest on sunday. I plan on letting it sit in the primary for 2 weeks, and then racking to secondary for about a week before I bottle. The reason to transfer to a secondary it to help clear the beer us, especially for me, as I added about 60 oz. of pumpkin to my brew kettle. I'm just a noob, so take that for what its worth, but I think my plan is a good one for me.

60 oz? Man up. I'll probably double that. Apparently this is a popular kit. I'm starting it tonight, I believe.

 

[cobbler6]

when did you add the pumpkin to the pot

 

[Chuckabrewski]

I just ordered the pumpkin ale kit as well let me know how it works out for you. Mine should be here this week

 

[absoluthamm]

60 oz? Man up. I'll probably double that. Apparently this is a popular kit. I'm starting it tonight, I believe.

Doubling is probably a bit much, but to each his own, that's what homebrew is all about. The majority of the pumpkin recipes I've seen and/or brewed, have called for around 60 oz(2 cans) of pumpkin, which has been enough. If you're planning on doing AG, that 60 alone can slow your sparge down to a dribble.

 

[AdvGroo]

Yeah, popular. This is the one I was going to brew today but my yeast exploded haha! Anyway I was to going to add 60oz of pumpkin, as this was the amount recommended from other brewers who have made this kit.

I did consider doing a secondary also with this as I was not sure what the situation with the pumpkin would have on the primary... I think I still will evaluate the primary and see.

Ace- did you up any other ingredients?

 

[mjperry24]

Doubling is probably a bit much, but to each his own, that's what homebrew is all about. The majority of the pumpkin recipes I've seen and/or brewed, have called for around 60 oz(2 cans) of pumpkin, which has been enough. If you're planning on doing AG, that 60 alone can slow your sparge down to a dribble.

Extract on this particular brew. Maybe i was exaggerating a LITTLE bit on the amount of pumpkin... Haha.

 

[aceinthehole]

when did you add the pumpkin to the pot

I added mine with 20 minutes left in the boil.

Ace- did you up any other ingredients?

Nope, this is my first time with a pumpkin ale, so I dont really know what to expect, maybe I will mess with it for next year.

 

[Thehopguy]

I just ordered my pumpkin ale kit too, yaa!! I'm throwing the pumpkin in with the mash though

 

[Fennis]

I am planning on doing a pumpkin ale as well...I ordered the ingredients this morning. I have been searching through this and other forums though to see how much pumpkin to use, and have come across a common theme--pumpkin adds absolutely nothing to the beer. Still, even with that information, people still seem to add pumpkin to their beer, but I have never seen any results after the fact.

So, I just want to ask those who have made a pumpkin ale in the past with real pumpkin, does it really make a difference? Does it leave the beer cloudy? Aren't the spices added to the beer the real reason the beer tastes the way it does?

 

[AdvGroo]

I am planning on doing a pumpkin ale as well...I ordered the ingredients this morning. I have been searching through this and other forums though to see how much pumpkin to use, and have come across a common theme--pumpkin adds absolutely nothing to the beer. Still, even with that information, people still seem to add pumpkin to their beer, but I have never seen any results after the fact.

So, I just want to ask those who have made a pumpkin ale in the past with real pumpkin, does it really make a difference? Does it leave the beer cloudy? Aren't the spices added to the beer the real reason the beer tastes the way it does?

My recipe states to add the pumkin at the last 5 min of the boil, 30oz but add more for a more pronounced flavor. From what I have read, 60oz was a decent amount to add for a 5 gal batch. Brewers have reported in the post's I have read that 30 oz gives a hint of pumpkin taste. I have even read to add as much 90oz.

if adding pumpkin did nothing for it, why add it?

 

[Fennis]

if adding pumpkin did nothing for it, why add it?

Exactly. I have seen conflicting comments, which is why I asked the question. In one, I guess somewhat scientific response I found someone say that the essential oils from the spices are enhanced in the beer, which is why a very small amount of spices need to be added to 5 gallons of beer, but that pumpkin has no oils, and most of the starches would just be converted by the yeast, with no change to the taste. Others stated that its more a gimmick to add pumpkin and its more to say you added pumpkin rather than just say its a pumpkin spiced ale--adding real pumpkin sounds nice, but again adds no flavor. I haven't really seen anyone clearly state what it did to the beer though--does it give it a creamier taste? Does it reduce or increase head retention? Does it make the beer cloudy or is there no effect? Basically I am so concerned because I am brewing this for a party, and its the first time I am going to have my beer on tap for a large amount of people to enjoy. I don't want to do any unnecessary steps for the beer, and I don't want an overpowering pumpkin flavor, just a smooth beer with a spicy note--which most of these kits promise to offer, and none actually require the use of pumpkin.

I am not trying to say what you are doing is incorrect or wrong, I just want to hear input from others who have done this in the past and can agree that its actually worth adding in a few cans/real pumpkin to the beer beyond just saying to your friends that it has real pumpkin brewed with it.

 

[cimirie]

Non-pumpkin advocates...

Pumpkin ale is my favorite of all beers. Not for all seasons, but I love it! With that in mind, I too came across this back and forth: to pumpkin or not to pumpkin.

So, I did a side by side of half batches. Using the exact same grainbill and hop schedule on both, I added roasted canned pumpkin to one of the mashes. I didn't throw any spices in just to truly taste if there was a difference or not.

Observation 1: The color difference is HUGE. The pumpkin-ed batch had much more orange/red in the final product.

Observation 2: The mouthfeel was noticeably smoother, rounder, and fuller on the pumpkin-ed batch. Probably not terribly different from upping the mash temp, except without additional unfermentables in terms of flavor.

Observation 3: The pumpkin added a slight... vegetal taste. It wasn't good and it wasn't bad. It was just there. It didn't smack you in the face, but it was very present.

All that being said, my experiment led me put 100% stock into the camp that a true pumpkin ale needs pumpkin (and spices too. My experiment may have tought me a few things, but straight pumpkin with no spice isn't as good a beer as with spices). The color alone is reason to do it. The fuller mouthfeel (which I believe are complex pumpkin starches) and the taste lend themselves to a great blend with the spices. You can go the "pumpkin-free" route, but I wouldn't.

(I'm sure somebody will question which scientific methods I used to test a difference. Nothing except side by side tastings with folks who came over and I wrangled into helping. They didn't know which was which and I asked them to tell me which differences, if any, they could tell between the beer. It may not be a double blind true scientific study, but it gave pretty consistent results).

As to when to add it, I've done both mash and boil. Mash has always been 10x more successful for me. Better mouthfeel and a whole let less of a PITA to drain!

Just my .02

 

[AdvGroo]

I am not trying to say what you are doing is incorrect or wrong.

I am simply following a recipe and that is my level of brewing at this point. This is a beginner forum; so many of the people in here are new so I am not sure this question can be answered here. Perhaps take this question to a forum that deals with more experienced discussions, since I am sure that many brewers don’t wander to the beginner forums. May get a better answer to your question.

I on the other hand don’t truthfully know the science behind adding the pumpkin, and will assume that adding more will increase the flavor. I have read some discussion on it, and this is the first I have heard that it does absolutely nothing for the brew.

 

[AdvGroo]

Non-pumpkin advocates...

Pumpkin ale is my favorite of all beers. Not for all seasons, but I love it! With that in mind, I too came across this back and forth: to pumpkin or not to pumpkin.

So, I did a side by side of half batches. Using the exact same grainbill and hop schedule on both, I added roasted canned pumpkin to one of the mashes. I didn't throw any spices in just to truly taste if there was a difference or not.

Observation 1: The color difference is HUGE. The pumpkin-ed batch had much more orange/red in the final product.

Observation 2: The mouthfeel was noticeably smoother, rounder, and fuller on the pumpkin-ed batch. Probably not terribly different from upping the mash temp, except without additional unfermentables in terms of flavor.

Observation 3: The pumpkin added a slight... vegetal taste. It wasn't good and it wasn't bad. It was just there. It didn't smack you in the face, but it was very present.

All that being said, my experiment led me put 100% stock into the camp that a true pumpkin ale needs pumpkin (and spices too. My experiment may have tought me a few things, but straight pumpkin with no spice isn't as good a beer as with spices). The color alone is reason to do it. The fuller mouthfeel (which I believe are complex pumpkin starches) and the taste lend themselves to a great blend with the spices. You can go the "pumpkin-free" route, but I wouldn't.

(I'm sure somebody will question which scientific methods I used to test a difference. Nothing except side by side tastings with folks who came over and I wrangled into helping. They didn't know which was which and I asked them to tell me which differences, if any, they could tell between the beer. It may not be a double blind true scientific study, but it gave pretty consistent results).

As to when to add it, I've done both mash and boil. Mash has always been 10x more successful for me. Better mouthfeel and a whole let less of a PITA to drain!

Just my .02

Excellent, the brewers will be very pleased.

 

[Fennis]

Thank you cimirie, that is exactly what I was looking for. I was wondering if adding pumpkin would in fact add something to mouth feel or creaminess. I do not want a strong pumpkin, starchy vegetable taste to the beer, if anything I am looking for something to compliment the pumpkin pie spices, and round out the beer. It sounds like though your experience, this is the case.

My plan was to add a can of Libby's Pure Pumpkin (or whatever it is called) to my mash. Should I bake the pumpkin first or just put it in my mash along with the grains?

Sorry to hijack this from the OP, this just seemed to be a good place to ask these questions being we are talking about the same thing...

 

[Fennis]

I am simply following a recipe and that is my level of brewing at this point. This is a beginner forum; so many of the people in here are new so I am not sure this question can be answered here. Perhaps take this question to a forum that deals with more experienced discussions, since I am sure that many brewers don’t wander to the beginner forums. May get a better answer to your question.

I am a beginner too. I only have done 5 batches so far, so I am far from being experienced. This may be a beginner forum, but I have seen a lot of advanced brewers answer a lot of the beginner's questions. I think they in fact do wander the beginner forums to help those of us that have questions. Otherwise, a beginner forum full of beginners is the blind leading the blind.

 

[onipar]

Thank you cimirie, that is exactly what I was looking for. I was wondering if adding pumpkin would in fact add something to mouth feel or creaminess. I do not want a strong pumpkin, starchy vegetable taste to the beer, if anything I am looking for something to compliment the pumpkin pie spices, and round out the beer. It sounds like though your experience, this is the case.

My plan was to add a can of Libby's Pure Pumpkin (or whatever it is called) to my mash. Should I bake the pumpkin first or just put it in my mash along with the grains?

Sorry to hijack this from the OP, this just seemed to be a good place to ask these questions being we are talking about the same thing...

Just to echo cimirie's findings, I completely agree.

I brewed my first ever pumpkin Ale almost 4 weeks ago, so I don't have a finished beer to use as an example, but here's what I've noticed from hydrometer sample tastings.

First, the color, as cimirie stated, is *incredible.* (you can see a picture of my hydrometer reading color here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f76/moon-hill-pumpkin-ale-260064/ ). i went through great pains to get good coloring, but without the pumpkin, it would have fallen short.

Next, different from many people, when I taste my samples, the first flavor to come across is the pumpkin. This may or may not lessen with age and conditioning, but right now, it is very noticeable. I agree again with Cimirie that the spices are really needed to help smooth over and add to the pumpkin/vegetable flavor. I also think that without it, the beer would be missing something.

Finally, the mouthfeel is awesome. It has this thick, almost creamy roundness that I love. I purposefully mashed high (and accidentally a little too high at one point) to get a heavy bodied beer as well, and I'm sure that's part of where the mouthfeel comes from.

So you can put me in the camp of people who think pumpkin adds to the ale.

 

[cimirie]

Thank you cimirie, that is exactly what I was looking for. I was wondering if adding pumpkin would in fact add something to mouth feel or creaminess. I do not want a strong pumpkin, starchy vegetable taste to the beer, if anything I am looking for something to compliment the pumpkin pie spices, and round out the beer. It sounds like though your experience, this is the case.

My plan was to add a can of Libby's Pure Pumpkin (or whatever it is called) to my mash. Should I bake the pumpkin first or just put it in my mash along with the grains?

Sorry to hijack this from the OP, this just seemed to be a good place to ask these questions being we are talking about the same thing...

I typically use libby's pure pumpkin, but I happened to be at whole foods this weekend so I got the organic stuff. I typically don't use 60 oz as some are saying to do (not saying you can't or that's a bad idea. i just never have). I used 3 16oz cans.

And yes, I DO suggest the pumpkin be roasted for about an hour at around 400* before adding to the mash. It caramelizes some of the sugars, adding to the complexity of the flavor. Pumpkin, by itself, is a fairly bland flavor. Roasting it first will add to the richness, plus, it pays more of an homage to pumpkin pie. On top of that, I believe it'll help contribute to more of a great burnt orange color that I love so much in a pumpkin ale.

 

[cimirie]

As more of a fyi to any all-grain brewers doing a pumpkin ale for the first time...

Because of the mouthfeel that myself and onipar mentioned, I tend to mash mine lower than would be typical for an ale. Last year I decided I wanted a really full body on my pumpkin ale and mashed high (156). The extra fermentables and pumpkin starch were just a bit too much for me on a fairly low abv brew.

This year I took the opposite approach (just to dial in closer to my "perfect pumpkin" ale I'm in search of) and mashed at 150. I will assume the body will be closer to that of a beer I mashed at 153-154 because of the pumpkin starch. Who knows, but it's an experiment.

Your tastes may vary so I'm not telling anybody to follow suit. Just know, that the pumpkin starches will add some to a heavier body than perhaps your mash temp would typically get you. YMMV

 

[Fennis]

Wow, the color alone appears to make it worth the addition. I think the nearest Whole Foods to me is an hour away, but there are some small privately owned grocery stores in the area that sell all-natural, organic foods. I will stop in there and see if they have the organic cans for sale.

I was not against using pumpkin, I just had not really seen a strong case for using it, so I was not going to chance messing anything up by throwing in pumpkin. I'll give it a try. I am trying to show off a bit with this batch, so hopefully I can produce something with similar color and body because I think it would be a hit if I do.

Thank you onipar and cimirie for your answers!

 

[onipar]

Wow, the color alone appears to make it worth the addition. I think the nearest Whole Foods to me is an hour away, but there are some small privately owned grocery stores in the area that sell all-natural, organic foods. I will stop in there and see if they have the organic cans for sale.

I was not against using pumpkin, I just had not really seen a strong case for using it, so I was not going to chance messing anything up by throwing in pumpkin. I'll give it a try. I am trying to show off a bit with this batch, so hopefully I can produce something with similar color and body because I think it would be a hit if I do.

Thank you onipar and cimirie for your answers!

No problem! I liked the organic cans. I couldn't find Libby's anyway, but I found the organic pumpkin to be thicker (less watery) than I remember Libby's being.

In terms of the mash temp, you should listen to Cimirie before me (and he has a really good point too). Reason being, I did a partial BIAB mash, so my temps were all over the place. I started high (156), accidentally had it go too high for a little bit (164) and after bringing it back down, it eventually fell all the way to 145 by the end of the mash. So...yeah... It was my first BIAB, and I had temp control issues, and I have no idea how that may have effected the body (other than it being about what I wanted anyway). :cross:

 

[cimirie]

Just to clarify... I used the organic pumpkin because a) I was at whole foods and that's all they had b) In summer, it is a PITA to try and brew this because almost no grocery store has canned pumpkin left over from the previous autumn. Whole foods always has pumpkin for those that like "hippie goat's milk pumpkin risotto" type recipes (hmmm, that actually sounds good...). So I used it because of those two reasons: not because organic anything will inherently give you a better beer (it might, I'm just not in a place to tell you that it will).

As to mash temp, I am fully aware that 150 will not give me a full-bodied beer, no matter how many pumpkin starches there are. If you want a truly full-bodied beer (as many prefer for their pumpkin ales), do mash higher. My only point was to illustrate that the body will be a bit heavier than a mash temp will typically get you.

hagelini - enjoy brewing this. it is a show-stopper type beer: even for the non-beer crowd. Don't over think it as really the only thing different than any other beer you've made is the roasting of the pumpkin. Place your roasted goo along with the rest of your grains in the mash (make sure to include some rice hulls to avoid a stuck sparge), and do every other step as normal. Basically, spices take the place of your flavor and hop additions and you're good to go!

 

[Fennis]

Okay, here is where my newbie side will show...what is a stuck sparge?

I am planning on doing a partial mash as I do not have a pot big enough to do a full boil, or the equipment for all grain. So, the most I have done is 3 gallons with about 5 pounds of grains. I forget what this calls for, but I think its only in the 2.5-3 pound range. You are right though, I think I am over-thinking this because in reality its no different than anything I have done yet, except instead of just mashing grains, I am including pumpkin.

 

[cimirie]

Okay, here is where my newbie side will show...what is a stuck sparge?

I am planning on doing a partial mash as I do not have a pot big enough to do a full boil, or the equipment for all grain. So, the most I have done is 3 gallons with about 5 pounds of grains. I forget what this calls for, but I think its only in the 2.5-3 pound range. You are right though, I think I am over-thinking this because in reality its no different than anything I have done yet, except instead of just mashing grains, I am including pumpkin.

It's par for the course to get overwhelmed with something new. No worries.

A stuck sparge is what happens during a sparge runoff (or a first runnings runoff ) when your filtering mechanism (false bottom, manifold, SS braid, cheesecloth, whatever) gets so clogged with soft debris that it stops flowing completely. At that point, it's a whole lot of evasive action to get it running again.

It happens most commonly when using large quantities of mushy fruit in the mash or when using a large percentage of oats in your mash. The debris gets super sticky and mushy and easily clogs things up. The solution is to throw about a pound of rice hulls into your mash. They add nothing to your brew but add another natural filter to avoid a stuck sparge.

 

[onipar]

Okay, here is where my newbie side will show...what is a stuck sparge?

I am planning on doing a partial mash as I do not have a pot big enough to do a full boil, or the equipment for all grain. So, the most I have done is 3 gallons with about 5 pounds of grains. I forget what this calls for, but I think its only in the 2.5-3 pound range. You are right though, I think I am over-thinking this because in reality its no different than anything I have done yet, except instead of just mashing grains, I am including pumpkin.

What do you mash in? If you're doing BIAB, you won't have to worry about a stuck sparge, but if you have one of those cooler MLTs, I've read the pumpkin can really slow the drainage.

EDIT: You know, i might even go as far to say that you may want to do it with a grain bag anyway (even if you have the cooler rig). It's partial mash, so even if your efficiency takes a hit, it won't be too big a problem. And you could still mash in the cooler, just with the grain and pumpkin in the grain bag. It'll probably be a trade off of saving about 1 hour on a slow sparge (with BIAB) or getting upwards of 10% better efficiency.

I did the BIAB partial with my recipe, and I hit 75% efficiency, and my OG was actually a couple points higher than I shot for. Though it's worth noting I only put 30 oz of the pumpkin in my mash, and the rest into the boil.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

 

[cimirie]

+1 on the grain bag suggestion. I've done pumpkin mashes in a mini-cooler successfully, but doesn't take much to clog that.

You could even still mash and sparge as normal in the cooler, just using the bag to hold it all together.

 

[Fennis]

Okay, makes sense now. I don't go as far as using a cooler, but I do BIAB. So I will just add the pumpkin to the grains and go from there. Thanks again everyone for all the info!

 

[AdvGroo]

Okay, makes sense now. I don't go as far as using a cooler, but I do BIAB. So I will just add the pumpkin to the grains and go from there. Thanks again everyone for all the info!

What is the acronym BIAB?