Pumpernickel / dark bread beer advice

[nihir]

Hey!
I'm looking for an advice how to impart strong dark bread/pumpernickel flavours into a beer. Which malts, and how much? Any particular style comes to your minds? (I heard about strong bready maltiness in dunkles bock, but unfortunately my experience doesn't really match that so far - I got more of light coffee flavours).

I was thinking about something like a mix of medium to dark caramel malt, medium to high kilned special malts and munich malt. Maybe a little roasted malt? What do you think?

 

[dmtaylor]

I'd start with about 40% rye malt. You can also get chocolate rye malt which is very tasty indeed, in addition to other highly kilned malts. Any dark roasted malts like this can add a lot of flavor at just 1-3% of the grist each but you can use several to build complexity. The balance of the grist should include the darkest Munich malt you can find. Briess Dark Munich is about 20 Lovibond (40 EBC) which is the darkest base malt that I have seen. This malt will provide the richest dark toast and bread crust flavors that you might be seeking.

For pumpernickel flavor, you might want to add caraway seed. I am not certain on the amount but start with perhaps 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons (19 liters) and see how you like it. The seed should be crushed (mortar & pestle or in a Ziplock bag and hammered with a tenderizer mallet). The caraway could be added at the very end of the boil or soaked in vodka and then the flavored vodka added to the fermenter after fermentation. The advantage of adding at the end is that you can add a little at a time until the beer tastes to your liking.

Good luck, I hope you achieve your goal. And welcome, I see that this is your second post, and it is a good one. Cheers.

 

[AlexKay]

Rye! The chocolate rye suggestion is a good one. Crystal rye, if you can find it, is also great (though use in moderation.)

For “bready,” you’re right: use Munich.

50/40/5/5 Munich/rye/crystal/chocolate rye might be a good place to start. Use a light Munich for enzymes, and so you don’t overpower the beer. For the crystal, use English medium or dark crystal, and/or crystal rye. Caramunich would also work.

It’s actually a pretty good grist for a roggenbier (though there’d probably be an argument about the crystal, especially if you use English.)

If that turns out to be too much, back down some (or even all) of the Munich to Vienna. (That takes about 4 hours.)

If you still need more, you could try lightly toasting the rye in your oven. I don’t usually recommend this, but I find that heat brings out rye’s flavor. (If you can find a more highly kilned rye, then leave the job to the maltster.)

 

[AlexKay]

Follow-up on the rye: with this much rye, it’ll be a nice and quite full-bodied beer if you keep the original gravity at or below about 1.050. If you make this a strong beer at these ratios, it’ll start to get syrupy.

Also, use rye malt instead of flaked rye. A light Munich has the enzymes to convert itself, but I’d worry about it struggling to bring along a lot of unmalted adjuncts.

 

[dmtaylor]

I forgot to mention, you are going to need rice hulls with this much rye. Use 1 pound or 1/2 kg per 5 gallons or 19 L.

 

[hottpeper13]

I have abeer with 36% rye malt and use oat malt as my base malt because the husks stay whole when milled. No draining issues, and makes for a creamy mouth feel.

 

[nihir]

Thanks y'all for advice. If someone is interested - separately I got a tip to achieve these flavours by making a rye beer keptinis style (baking thick mash consisting of base malts before diluting with more water - lithuanian farmhouse ale technique).

 

[dmtaylor]

Thanks y'all for advice. If someone is interested - separately I got a tip to achieve these flavours by making a rye beer keptinis style (baking thick mash consisting of base malts before diluting with more water - lithuanian farmhouse ale technique).

That thought had crossed my mind as well. It's a great idea. I've made a beer like this one time, baking mash in the oven. 100% pale malt turned out to make a deep copper / nearly brown beer that tasted quite good. It's fun and interesting to try.