has anyone added it to increase head retention?
Propylene Glycol Alginate
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No. Just add a pound of wheat.
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Or half a pound of chit malt.
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Speaking of wheat, I've got a Pivo Grodzeski 'on deck' for the next brew day, 100% Oak Smoked wheat malt. I've been obsessing over what, if any, changes I should make to the crush gap on my Malt Mill 3 roller MM3. Normally I run a standard 0.038"/1.0mm gap which gives me around 80% mash efficiency. But whenever I use almost any wheat malt, the "drive" roller just spins while the "pinch" roller doesn't move. The hard wheat kernels fail to get pulled down into the crush.
My workaround is usually to thoroughly mix my small amounts of wheat malt (maybe 3-5% total grist) with the majority softer barley so that it gets drawn into the rollers. But since this will be a 100% wheat grist, what minimum recommended crush gap can I use to crack the husk-less wheat kernels "just enough" and still prevent making flour and instant cement in the mash? I plan to use copious amounts of rice hulls with this one, but what gap in general gives an adequate crush?
My workaround is usually to thoroughly mix my small amounts of wheat malt (maybe 3-5% total grist) with the majority softer barley so that it gets drawn into the rollers. But since this will be a 100% wheat grist, what minimum recommended crush gap can I use to crack the husk-less wheat kernels "just enough" and still prevent making flour and instant cement in the mash? I plan to use copious amounts of rice hulls with this one, but what gap in general gives an adequate crush?
I use the same mill. When I run wheat (or rye or other kernels that look small), I run them separately. My gap is set fat at .05-.055 for my RIMS, so I check to see if the grain is cracked after running it through. If I don't like what I see I'll run it again. That being said, I've never done a 100% Wheat grain bill.
This thead? Hijacked.
OP (@passedpawn) : I know you know how this forum works, but I located this one thread back in 2009:
KreamyX thread
OP (@passedpawn) : I know you know how this forum works, but I located this one thread back in 2009:
KreamyX thread
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OP
OP
Thanks. Yes, I did see that thread. It seems that PGA is an improved for of KreamyX. Not sure. Anyway, I've got PGA coming any day now.
The reason I need it: I've been replacing dry-hopping with terpenes (https://abstraxhops.com/collections/optimized-hop-extracts). I inject them into the keg through the PRV with a syringe. Very very convenient, and I've NEVER made an IPA as good as I'm making now with these terpenes. But, they do a real job on head retention. I have some chit malt coming, and I've been using wheat, but still flat beers persist.
(and yes, solid hijack above).
OP
OP
Followup on this: PGA is indeed a miracle head improver. 1 day after adding to an IPA that had no foam at all, it's got a glorious foamy head that stays a long time. In a 5 gallon batch...
- 1/2 tsp PGA
- 1/2 tsp sugar, mixed well with PGA to avoid clumping and for O2 scavenging in keg
- 1/2 cup water
- immersion blender for 30 seconds
- add to keg (or fermentor when packaging)
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Very interesting! Where did you get it?
OP
OP
Ok I have a packet coming in the mail. Thanks @passedpawn
I’ll probably add it to the keg for an upcoming session IPA. Unless I hear of a better time to add the PGA.
I’ll probably add it to the keg for an upcoming session IPA. Unless I hear of a better time to add the PGA.
OP
OP
I have 25# of chit now. I'm going to do a batch of pilsner with and without, for science.
Can you add the PGA at yeast pitch?
Or would that make the blowoff too crazy (like regular dish detergent in a dishwasher)?
Or would that make the blowoff too crazy (like regular dish detergent in a dishwasher)?
OP
OP
No idea. Not really sure how to use this stuff.
Semi-hijack, but based on the Abstrax hop extract aka terpenes that motivated OP @passedpawn to try PGA: it seems less expensive than the somewhat similar products at Yakima Valley Hops. What kind of dosing do you use, @passedpawn? And when in the process do you inject it?
I've been reluctant to use, er, additives in my beer, in a sort of modern Rheinheitsgebot desire to keep the beer free of wacky chemicals, but the extract (and the seaweed-derived PGA) seem pretty innocent. And, vs. dry-hopping in fermenter or serving keg, this seems simpler - no floating dip tube needed, not much concern about oxygen ingress. Say more about the process and results!
I've been reluctant to use, er, additives in my beer, in a sort of modern Rheinheitsgebot desire to keep the beer free of wacky chemicals, but the extract (and the seaweed-derived PGA) seem pretty innocent. And, vs. dry-hopping in fermenter or serving keg, this seems simpler - no floating dip tube needed, not much concern about oxygen ingress. Say more about the process and results!
OP
OP
Yea, I don't care for "chemicals" either. I'm not vegan or r-bot or LODO any of those other things, I just want simplicity.
This is no more complicated than adding hops. And believe me, it punches.
This is no more complicated than adding hops. And believe me, it punches.
I added PGA to my last batch and it worked as promised. The head was about the same as all my batches except it stuck around much longer. With the last batch I was getting the lacing stripes in my glass. Previously, I had decent foam but after a few drinks they became splotchy.
I'll try to get some pics. I'll be adding it to my batches moving forward.
I'll try to get some pics. I'll be adding it to my batches moving forward.
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Same experience. I'm generally pleased with the results. I did a control batch in a 1.75 gallon keg and a PGA dosed 1.75 gallon keg filled from a previously fermented lager. The control batch was already "good" with regard to head retention, but the PGA dosed batch produced a rocky, white, persistent billowing head with remarkable lacing and notching that lasted well after the glass was empty.
The mouthfeel of the dosed batch might have been a little different (in a good way), possibly due to more carbonation retained in the beer by a thicker foam cap, or perhaps it was just perception due to confirmation bias. Either way, the visual perception was an order of magnitude improvement. In no way was taste or aroma negatively affected.
In addition I dosed two kegs of beers I've brewed for competition: a Pivo Grodzeski and a New Zealand Pilsner that I'll be bottling later this week. I'm anxious to see if there's any issues in repackaging, and especially if the judges have any comments, negative or positive, about the 'Appearance' of the bottled entries
Both of those beers sound amazing. I'll definitely be adding pga to an upcoming pilz or kolsch (I haven't made up my mind). Although a Kolsch with a huge billowy head is calling me.
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I didn’t mention that my “Best Kolsch Ever” was the first one I dosed with PGA during the initial packaging in the keg. I haven’t tapped that keg yet, as I’m still finishing up the last of my early Spring combined Kolsch batches.
The keg looks like it might ’kick’ at any time now. It’s pouring so clear and producing such a nice foam cap that I hope I didn’t mess up by treating the one ‘yet to be tapped’ with PGA. Is there such a thing as too much head?(said no one, ever).
The keg looks like it might ’kick’ at any time now. It’s pouring so clear and producing such a nice foam cap that I hope I didn’t mess up by treating the one ‘yet to be tapped’ with PGA. Is there such a thing as too much head?(said no one, ever).
Thank you for this really key data point. (Maybe you could also please share the dosage of hop extract you've enjoyed. I'm guessing it could be injected with the PGA solution.)
The seller recommends a range of 0.1%-0.5% by weight. A 5 gallon batch of 1.012 TG ale weighs almost 650 ounces, 0.1% of which would be a 0.65 oz. addition by weigh. Dunno how dense this PGA is, but I'm guessing that 0.65 oz. is much more (~10x??) than the 1/2 tsp, you used. And you got great results. I imagine the beer would've gotten weird at the 0.1% amount.
It's good to know that the head-destroying side-effect of the Abstrax Omni extract can be easily counteracted. Abstrax says 1/2 oz. of their extract equals a pound of T90 pellets, so their $69 (plus shipping) 2 oz. package equates to 4 pounds of pellets. This is roughly in line with what YVH charges me for recent-harvest pellets. Maybe a bit easier than dry-hopping, with less cleanup and, per @passedpawn's testimony, powerful results.
Apparently, these extracts replace dry-hopping (recommended for the brite tank). It would take me well over a year to go through a 2 oz. bottle at my current rate of dry hopping. Unexpectedly, Abstrax sez it doesn't even require refrigeration. I've got a DIPA in my near brewing future. I've got plenty of hops, but I might have to snag me some PGA and Abstrax Omni.
Dahling, there is no such thing as unnecessary head.-- Margaret Cho
She was not talking about beer, of course. Fighting unwanted, excessive foaming is a common kegging concern here. But no one has complained about excess head retention, as far as I can recall.
OP
OP
I added 12 mL of terpenes in an IPA I made in November - 6 ml centennial and 6 ml chinook and the aroma is in your face. I add terpenes to keg. I use large syringes to inject into the unscrewed PRV on top (you could use the type of syringe used to add moisture to meat). Take my word, it'll blow you away.
[edit] don't use the amounts above. I think the recommendation to me was to use a TOTAL of 6ml in my 5 gallong batch. I used 6ml of each oil. Derp.
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12 ml. = 0.4 fl. oz. which, according to Abstrax, replaces 12.8 oz. of hops. That certainly should blow me away! More expensive than YVH hops at my current rate, but comparable to LHBS prices. But the testimonial is seductive.
Cheers!
OP
OP
That 1/2 tsp wasn't random. I did the math and dimensional analysis to arrive at that. I'm not saying I am immune to error, but I checked it twice. I didn't save the math, so good luck. If you do it by volume instead of mass (not the best way, though), there are 3840 tsp in a 5g batch.
OP
OP
A buddy of mine did the math on that one... hmmm.
[edit] I should have used 6ml total terpenes to mimic pro brewer level of late hops in an IPA.
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Nor am I suggesting you erred. Thanks for the ppm-based info. on PGA and head retention.
My effort to calculate ppm based on volume seems to show 1/2 tsp. per 5 gallons make ~130ppm. I suspect weight/mass is the relevant measure. Lallemand shows a similar chart scaled in mg/l.
Irrespective how you arrived at 1/2 tsp. per 5 gallons, you've reported good results. I value your experience far more than recommendations from Cape Crystal Brands.
fwiw, they seem to suggest anywhere from 0.1g. to 0.38g per 5 gallon batch. I'm not convinced my little scale will really be accurate enough to measure such tiny amounts, but I have a1/2 teaspoon measure!
Mfr. states 0.01-0.03%, which is 100-300ppm. For a 5gal batch of typical 1.012 beer, I get 1.92-5.75g by my math.
I'm a bottler, so what say you all as the best time to add? I'm thinking of adding to my FV at the end of fermentation. I ferment in a Brew Bucket and I have a gas post attached to the lid. I could dissolve the PGA in a little sterilized water and squirt it in using a syringe.
EDIT: Just ordered an 8oz pouch. Looking forward to trying it next brew.
I'm a bottler, so what say you all as the best time to add? I'm thinking of adding to my FV at the end of fermentation. I ferment in a Brew Bucket and I have a gas post attached to the lid. I could dissolve the PGA in a little sterilized water and squirt it in using a syringe.
EDIT: Just ordered an 8oz pouch. Looking forward to trying it next brew.
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Just received my pouch of PGA. Excited to try it next brew.
DuncB
Well-Known Member
Many years ago ( last century) I used this back in the UK.
Worked great, you could nearly stand a spoon up in the theakstons old peculiar malt extract recipe by Dave Line.
https://kegthat.com/product/beer-heading-liquid-50ml-to-treat-125-litres/
There's a product called Trident that's more beer adjacent that's meant to help head retention. But seems to be a bulk purchase item from the hop merchant.
Worked great, you could nearly stand a spoon up in the theakstons old peculiar malt extract recipe by Dave Line.
https://kegthat.com/product/beer-heading-liquid-50ml-to-treat-125-litres/
There's a product called Trident that's more beer adjacent that's meant to help head retention. But seems to be a bulk purchase item from the hop merchant.
What style will you be brewing with this?
The chart at upper rightd (copied below) looks impressive, until you take a close look at the vertical scale. According to the chart, 100 ppm increases foam retention from ~88 seconds to ~108 seconds, which works out to (108 - 88) / 88 = 22 - 23% increase in head retention time.
That doesn't seem like it's worth the trouble of a separate addition. Have any of you that have tried it seen what appears to be more impressive performance?
Brew on
Brew on
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I’m away from my home PC for a couple of days, but when I get back I’ll look at my brewing notes and let you know my dosing rates. My batch volumes are usually 6.3 USG, and my basic formula for PGA additions was the same methodology that @passedpawn used. My experience was improved lacing and much improved head, and could have actually added more but didn’t want to go overboard like a bimbo on Botox.
I was pleased with the aesthetic improvement in appearance, slight change in mouthfeel (in a positive way), and very happy that there was no perceptual alteration to taste or aroma.
I think my next brew will be some kind of red ale.
The mfr stated a range of 100-300 ppm. I might lean toward the high end of that.
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As I recall, I split the difference and went closer to 150 ppm. I agree, you could err on the high side of that value.
It fixed my big issue which was the head turning splotchy after a few sips or letting it sit for a few minutes.The chart at upper rightd (copied below) looks impressive, until you take a close look at the vertical scale. According to the chart, 100 ppm increases foam retention from ~88 seconds to ~108 seconds, which works out to (108 - 88) / 88 = 22 - 23% increase in head retention time.
View attachment 883819That doesn't seem like it's worth the trouble of a separate addition. Have any of you that have tried it seen what appears to be more impressive performance?
Brew on
Yup my head was balding (wait a minute).
I can’t say if it was 28% or not but definitely a noticeable improvement on the amount, quality and consistency.
And it’s so easy to add. My one and only batch I simply added with my dose of K-meta.
ClaudiusB
Well-Known Member
Why don't you try to identify the root cause of your poor foam performance?
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