Proper starter technique when not adding entire starter to wort

[petemoss]

Hi gang.

Normally I make a starter on a stir plate and then I pitch the entire starter into the wort.

I am making a lager that BeerSmith tells me will need a 4L starter. I would rather just pitch the yeast off of the starter rather than the entire starter. This is due to me not wanting that much starter in there and the fact that I don't think my fermenter will hold all of it with any headspace left.

What is the proper technique for doing this. Do I just run the stir plate as usual and then set the starter aside to flocculate? If so, for how long? Should it be put into the refrigerator? If so, do I just let it warm to pitching temp and then decant. Any advice on the proper way to do this is appreciated.

 

[IslandLizard]

When the yeast is done stirring (2-4 days, changed to a light color, possibly floccing out already), squeeze the foil cap tight and cold crash by placing the flask in the fridge. 24-48 hours should precipitate most of it. The starter beer on top should be mostly clear or slightly hazy by then. I often leave starters in fridge for 4 days to a week. Sometimes for several weeks when I don't get to them.

On brew day, decant, then let the leftover slurry come to room temp, that's the fastest way. You can help the warming process along by placing the flask in a tub with some lukewarm water.

If you want, you can add some boiled, then chilled wort from your batch and stir another 4 hours (vitality starter) to wake 'em up again, then pitch the whole thing. Best is wort and starter being within 10°F from one another when pitching. Especially when pitching into cold lagers, keep an eye on their relative temps.

There's also a "warm pitch" method for Lagers, for some ample cell growth and faster lift-off, before chilling down to lager ferm temps.

 

[IslandLizard]

You may have to make a multi-step starter to get 400 billion cells, depending on the original cell count. So plan well ahead.

BrewUnited's Yeast Calculator

 

[petemoss]

Thanks for the detailed information @IslandLizard. I really appreciate it.

 

[Qhrumphf]

When you decant off spent starter wort, leave a small amount behind (a half a liter should be plenty) so you can get it all suspended again.

 

[petemoss]

Makes sense. Will do, thanks.

 

[IslandLizard]

Are you using a 5 liter flask? Or doing multiples in one or more 2 liter ones?

 

[petemoss]

I have a 5 liter flask so I had planned to do one single big batch.

 

[IslandLizard]

I have a 5 liter flask so I had planned to do one single big batch.

Ah, good, you are prepared!
Does it fit somewhere in your fridge? I'd need to take a shelf out to house a 5 liter flask, so I stick to 2 liter ones and 1/2 gallon pickle jars.

Per BrewUnited's, for 5.5 gallons of 1.060 Lager you'd need around 460 billion cells to pitch.

Punching in some numbers into BrewUnited's, it looks that a 2.5 liter starter can give you 450 billion cells from a single fairly fresh 100 billion WLP Purepitch pack. Their vitality remains at around 90% after 3 months in the fridge, take note of that.

Even if it were only 70% viable, it would still yield 420 billion in the same 2.5 liter starter. Not sure where BS gets a 4 liter starter from...
But you can save some out for next time.

 

[petemoss]

Yeah, I have to put it into my kegerator. It would hit the shelves in my kitchen fridge.

This batch is 6 gallons at 1.068. BS says it needs 563 billion cells.
At my LHBS the yeast seems to always be 2-3 months old. So I went for 2 at this point. Haven't bought it yet. That gives a 77% viability.
BS says that 4.03L would do it.

I didn't even notice this but once you get to a certain "bigness" in BS your starter stops growing. So whether you enter 4L, 5L, or 100L your cell count stops going up. Perhaps there is only so much that the 100 billion cells can do in a single stage starter, or it's a bug in the application. Not sure.

 

[cmac62]

I recently brewed a dopple bock that said I needed a 14 l starter. I brewed a small batch and pitched the DB onto that. It worked out pretty good. Good luck

 

[IslandLizard]

I didn't even notice this but once you get to a certain "bigness" in BS your starter stops growing. So whether you enter 4L, 5L, or 100L your cell count stops going up. Perhaps there is only so much that the 100 billion cells can do in a single stage starter, or it's a bug in the application. Not sure.

There are limits on growth due to inoculation rate, therefore making step starters with reasonable inoculation rates is the preferred method.
I never use BS yeast calculator as a yeast tool, the required cell count value that pops up is more a guide or cross reference of # of cells needed. But it shouldn't bomb out at higher volumes, there is always growth, just not as efficient. 100 liters of starter wort won't give 100x the cells as 1 liter would.

I use this one the most: BrewUnited's Yeast Calculator, as well as Mr. Malty for pitching from slurries.

 

[IslandLizard]

I recently brewed a dopple bock that said I needed a 14 l starter. I brewed a small batch and pitched the DB onto that. It worked out pretty good. Good luck

I think that's the best strategy, plus there's the benefit of drinking a good beer while the bigger batch is fermenting/lagering.

 

[petemoss]

There are limits on growth due to inoculation rate, therefore making step starters with reasonable inoculation rates is the preferred method.
I never use BS yeast calculator as a yeast tool, the required cell count value that pops up is more a guide or cross reference of # of cells needed. But it shouldn't bomb out at higher volumes, there is always growth, just not as efficient. 100 liters of starter wort won't give 100x the cells as 1 liter would.

I use this one the most: BrewUnited's Yeast Calculator, as well as Mr. Malty for pitching from slurries.

That is good information to know. I will have to pull up a couple of these tools in concert and do some comparisons.

 

[Vale71]

When you decant off spent starter wort, leave a small amount behind (a half a liter should be plenty) so you can get it all suspended again.

You don't really need that as you'll have a fermenter full of wort at pitching time. What I do with my decanted starters is to add about 1-1.5 liters of aerated wort through the sample port, vigorously shake it to resuspend and then pitch it all.

 

[IslandLizard]

You don't really need that as you'll have a fermenter full of wort at pitching time. What I do with my decanted starters is to add about 1-1.5 liters of aerated wort through the sample port, vigorously shake it to resuspend and then pitch it all.

That's sort of how I do it too. I oxygenate that well, then pitch into the oxygenated wort. I usually have lift off within 12 hours.
Or made a 4 hr vitality starter earlier.

 

[Qhrumphf]

You don't really need that as you'll have a fermenter full of wort at pitching time. What I do with my decanted starters is to add about 1-1.5 liters of aerated wort through the sample port, vigorously shake it to resuspend and then pitch it all.

That's sort of how I do it too. I oxygenate that well, then pitch into the oxygenated wort. I usually have lift off within 12 hours.
Or made a 4 hr vitality starter earlier.

That definitely works too!

The point is if you just leave thick slurry you're gonna have a bad getting it out.

 

[Vale71]

That definitely works too!

The point is if you just leave thick slurry you're gonna have a bad getting it out.

You just need to shake it, baby!

 

[Qhrumphf]

You just need to shake it, baby!

Ain't no one know about shaking anything until they've used a Zahm.

 

[petemoss]

I'll probably just leave enough liquid to slosh it all up. My "sampling port" is inside the bottom of a brew jack insulating snuggie.