Proper pronunciation in brewing

[Scooby_Brew]

So how do you say things like "wort", "tun", "wit bier", "kriek", "saison" and "alt"?

This is how I say I say it, correct me if I'm wrong:

"Wort" is pronounced "wert".
"Tun" is pronounced "toon" like in "cartoon".
"Wit bier" is pronounced "veet bee-yer"
"Kriek" - "creek"
"Saison" - "soo-zone""
"alt" - "oolt".

What's your opinion on this?

 

[mullenite]

If I remember my German correctly from high school... "Alt" is pronounced "alt".

Saison I have heard say-sohn.
Tun I have heard both "ton" and "toon"

Witbier I personally say "wit beer" but I really am not too big on semantics.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

I've never heard tun pronounced toon but trub is pronounced troob.

 

[152Sumo]

as long as the final product tastes like bee-yer, and not , does it matter?

 

[Yuri_Rage]

This might help: http://belgianstyle.com/mmguide/pronounce/speak.html

 

[carnevoodoo]

I pronounce them all like the So Cal honkey that I am. I don't pretend I get even close to the original pronunciations. It just sound silly to me.

 

[Trevor57]

saison is french, most people say "say-zon" if you want to sound funny you can pronounce it properly and drop the "n"

 

[Boondoggie]

you have to pronounce everything else with an accent too.

or not.

how come when the english create thier own pronunciation for foriegn things it's charming, but when 'mericans do it they're looked at as ignorant?

 

[shortyjacobs]

Wert
Tun (tonne, ton, etc.)
Wit Beer
what's a kriek?
Say-zon (soft n...I knows my french)
alt

 

[Greyhound]

"Beer" is pronounced "bee-uh" (well, up hee-uh it is anyway).

 

[McGarnigle]

Hoo-garden is a wit, not a vit.

 

[l1ranger]

im in big big trouble if I can't just pronounce stuff the way it looks.

I say wart and trub all the time myself, but always correct anybody that helps me brew and make them say wert and troob. It makes brew day that much more fun.

 

[btprice2001]

http://www.beertown.org/education/dictionary.html

lauter tun. (law’-d:er tuhn’)

 

[BillyBroas]

Was on a brewery tour one time and the head brewer called it a mash-toon. I still pronounce it tun though.

 

[firebird77]

This reminds me, I've been meaning to ask why we don't have a breakdown of all the acronyms we use often on here.

ex. SWMBO, AG, PM, HERM, DME, LME, RIMS, HLT, MLT.....

Many of these are really easy to figure out, but what if new brewers like myself had one sticky to look up instead of remaining ignorant for a few weeks?

 

[Skacorica]

So how do you say things like "wort", "tun", "wit bier", "kriek", "saison" and "alt"?

This is how I say I say it, correct me if I'm wrong:

"Wort" is pronounced "wert".
"Tun" is pronounced "toon" like in "cartoon".
"Wit bier" is pronounced "veet bee-yer"
"Kriek" - "creek"
"Saison" - "soo-zone""
"alt" - "oolt".

What's your opinion on this?

Wart
Tun
Wit Beer
Creek
Say-sohn (or Say-soh)
alt

Most of the differences in pronunciation are because people try and pronounce things like the english do. Tun becoming toon and wort becoming wert are both great examples. I live in an accent free portion of the US, Im damn well going to talk like an accent free yank.

I make the exception occaisonally for Saison because it is a specifically french word. I dont afford German the same courtesy with Witbier

 

[bmellis]

As someone who speaks German, I can give you a few tips. The "w" in German is pronounced like the "v" in English.

Wort is pronounced in German like the English word "vort," with a long O sound, no "er" sound.

Wit, as in Witbier, is "vit".

Tun is pronounced like "toon", as in cartoon.

Alt is pronounced like the same letters in "malt" are pronounced.

As for trub, something tells me that it should be trüb, which means "not clear". But either way, you'd pronounce it like the English word "true" but with a "b" added to the end.

I don't think Saison is a German word, but if it were, the consonant "s" is pronounced like an English "z", "ai" is pronounced like "eye" and the "o" would be long, so zai-zone.

These are best approximations because with any language, the way vowels and consonants are pronounced differs. Of course, I don't think it really matters how you pronounce it as long as people you're speaking to understand you. If you were speaking to people in German then I guess your pronunciation would matter more.

 

[Tsuyako]

This reminds me, I've been meaning to ask why we don't have a breakdown of all the acronyms we use often on here.

ex. SWMBO, AG, PM, HERM, DME, LME, RIMS, HLT, MLT.....

Many of these are really easy to figure out, but what if new brewers like myself had one sticky to look up instead of remaining ignorant for a few weeks?

There is actually in the beginners section.

 

[Boondoggie]

"Beer" is pronounced "bee-uh" (well, up hee-uh it is anyway).

Say "Beer can" with an Australain accent.

you're also saying "bacon" with a Jamacain accent! :fro:

 

[skirunnr]

Doesn't it depend on how much you've been drinking??

 

[BillyBroas]

Say "Beer can" with an Australain accent.

you're also saying "bacon" with a Jamacain accent! :fro:

Have you seen this? http://baconorbeercan.com/

He shows you how to pronounce bacon and beer can.

 

[Homercidal]

As someone who speaks German, I can give you a few tips. The "w" in German is pronounced like the "v" in English.

Wort is pronounced in German like the English word "vort," with a long O sound, no "er" sound.

Wit, as in Witbier, is "vit".

Tun is pronounced like "toon", as in cartoon.

Alt is pronounced like the same letters in "malt" are pronounced.

As for trub, something tells me that it should be trüb, which means "not clear". But either way, you'd pronounce it like the English word "true" but with a "b" added to the end.

I don't think Saison is a German word, but if it were, the consonant "s" is pronounced like an English "z", "ai" is pronounced like "eye" and the "o" would be long, so zai-zone.

These are best approximations because with any language, the way vowels and consonants are pronounced differs. Of course, I don't think it really matters how you pronounce it as long as people you're speaking to understand you. If you were speaking to people in German then I guess your pronunciation would matter more.

Wit means White in Dutch, while White in German is Weiss. (Pronounced VICE). According to my brief online lookup, the Dutch "w" is pronounced very similarly to the English "w".

 

[Batinse]

Wit is a Dutch word, not a German one (ETA: which is what Homercidal just said!). And "Wort" is the english word for the German "Würze," which would be pronounced "vehrts." Close to "wert," but I'm not sure why we think that should be the correct pronunciation of "wort"

Saison is French, and while I suppose you should pronounce it "say-ZOHN," I would cringe to hear the attempt.

But I speak both French and German and I don't normally use the original pronunciations (except for Saison and Weiss for some reason). I think if you're speaking English, speak English. How do you pronounce "Kindergarten," for example? "Blonde"? "Cafe"? Why would this change with trub, wort and wit?

 

[Skacorica]

Wit is a Dutch word, not a German one (ETA: which is what Homercidal just said!). And "Wort" is the english word for the German "Würze," which would be pronounced "vehrts." Close to "wert," but I'm not sure why we think that should be the correct pronunciation of "wort"

Saison is French, and while I suppose you should pronounce it "say-ZOHN," I would cringe to hear the attempt.

But I speak both French and German and I don't normally use the original pronunciations (except for Saison and Weiss for some reason). I think if you're speaking English, speak English. How do you pronounce "Kindergarten," for example? "Blonde"? "Cafe"? Why would this change with trub, wort and wit?

Amen brother!

 

[Cliff897]

I used to know a guy who'd screw his face up trying to pronounce "Volvo" as if he had a clue how a Swede would say it.

It was funny. He was a dolt.

I recall newscasters falling all over their tongues trying to pronounce place names like Bosnia and Herzegovina.

It was annoying.
However it did give insight over the cause of the war. Clearly, they were fighting over vowels.

That little chick with the huge head - - Giada Delaurentis - - yah her - - she drifts in and out of goombah efforts to sound all EyeTaleean.

It's annoying and distracting.

I dunno, it is important to try to pronounce a foreign word like the foreigners do?

It seems stilted and unnatural to lurch in and out of other national dialectic forms.

But that's just me.

 

[hal2814]

I don't make up phonetic rules. I just follow them. If you want it pronounced wert or troob, we have letters for that.

 

[McGarnigle]

Well, I don't know want to order "creem broolee" for dessert, and I don't think Saison should rhyme with raisin. There's a place for foreign pronunciations; just don't overdo it.

 

[shortyjacobs]

That little chick with the huge head - - Giada Delaurentis

LOL, never heard her described that way. Most people focus on her huge...uh....talent.

And I call H'ors D'oeuvres "Hors Dovers".....and I speak French, lol.

 

[SteveM]

As for "tun" - here at the location of the famous Tun Tavern, home of the US Marines, no one would say "toon."

 

[Yuri_Rage]

By some of the logic here, the following words should rhyme: tomb, comb, and bomb. Also, there is more than one accepted pronunciation of words like sherbet, homage, herb, and pecan (despite many opinions that there is one "correct" way to pronounce each). English is a strange language plagued with holdovers from its mutt roots. So, the common pronunciation of a word, though it may be mispronounced based on its roots, becomes the correct pronunciation. Further muddying the waters, the correct/accepted pronunciation of a word sometimes depends largely on the dialect of the people in any given geographic/cultural area.

The consensus seems to be:
saison (say-SOHN)
tun (tun, with a short u)
wit (it depends)
wort (wert)

But because all of these words are clearly rooted in other languages/dialects and also relatively uncommon in spoken English, any attempt at pronunciation that conveys the meaning of the word could be considered appropriate.

 

[bmellis]

So I just looked up most of these terms in a German dictionary and they're spelled very differently than the words we use in English. So I would just pronounce the words as you would using English pronunciations. But I still don't get why "wort" would be pronounced "wert". Maybe it's an accent thing.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

how come when the english create thier own pronunciation for foriegn things it's charming, but when 'mericans do it they're looked at as ignorant?

True dat!!

Maybe it's just because 'merica still has an empire, while Britain has gone all 'umble and ordinary these days.

 

[TheBeerNerd]

"Beer" is pronounced "bee-uh" (well, up hee-uh it is anyway).

Spent the first 21 years of my life in New England. It takes quite a few "bee-ahs" to start talikng like that. Never had the accent.
Its something people always comment on when they find out where I'm from.

 

[bmellis]

Spent the first 21 years of my life in New England. It takes quite a few "bee-ahs" to start talikng like that. Never had the accent.
Its something people always comment on when they find out where I'm from.

That reminds me of the first time I went to Massachusetts, Cape Ann specifically. When the guy who ran the bed and breakfast I stayed at first spoke to me I almost laughed because I guess I didn't realize people spoke that way outside of the movies.

I live in NYC now, but I'm from Arkansas originally (for the most part). Down there a lot of people talk about drinking "bear", like the animal but with a bouncy drawl. Somehow I never acquired the accent and people always try to get me to speak with a southern accent here, but i just can't do it authentically. Accents really are an interesting thing.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Going to go ahead and resurrect this just cause it seemed the most relevant place and I didn't want to start a new thread for it.

Been learning German over the last couple months, and I've learned that I (and probably most of the other folks on here) have been making a pretty big mispronunciation for a long time.

Pretty commonly used term: Brau. Commonly pronounced "brow" as in "eyebrow".

Problem is that the word "Brau" doesn't exist in that form in German, unless part of another word such as Brauerei (brewery) or Brauhaus (brewhouse). The "Brau" pronunciation is correct, but the actual word on its own is Bräu. And the pronunciation is really different because of that umlaut. It's pronounced "broy".

Common example: Löwenbräu being pronounced low-en-brow. When the correct pronunciation is closer to looer-ven-broy.

The other one is the boot glass. See lots of "Das Boot" on this forum and elsewhere (and in Beerfest). That means "the boat". Der Bierstiefel is the correct term.