Probably Done With 1056

[smata67]

Three different batches now, oldest at 5 weeks after bottling, and I can't pour a clear glass. Beer looks clear as day in the bottle, but no amount of tenderness on the pour can keep the beer from ending up cloudy after pouring. What would be a good substitute going forward, a clean yeast for american ales and IPAs that will compact down after a reasonable amount of time to pour a clear pint?

 

[Terpene]

WLP090
San Diego Super yeast.
Ferments clean and fast.
Flocks way better than 001 or 1056.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

WLP090
San Diego Super yeast.
Ferments clean and fast.
Flocks way better than 001 or 1056.

+1 for WLP090. I believe Omega's West Coast III is a similar strain but both ferment clean and fast and floc well.

 

[Jag75]

Have any of you tried Imperial A07 flagship?

 

[smata67]

WLP090 it will be.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

How long are you leaving beers in the fridge before pouring?

 

[smata67]

How long are you leaving beers in the fridge before pouring?

Good question. Not long. I have been putting them in the freezer for 30 minutes then drinking. I have experimented putting them in the fridge for three days and was still not pleased with the pour. The issue isn't as much the yeast not floccing, the bottles are clear as day before I pour them, it is the yeast cake not holding tight for the pour. Now, some enterprising wippersnapper needs to come up with a "yeast cement" to keep the yeast where it belongs at the bottom of the bottle (of course, that would make the bottles harder to clean, but that is just an opportunity to sell one some other loosening agent).

I don't have a great deal of refrigerator space to store the beers nor do I want to have beers chilled and ready to go, I'm likely to drink every day if they were that accessible. The resulting belly would kill my Chippendales night job. What I need is a yeast that does what I want it to do. Like my dog. Well, not like my dog, he is a disobedient mutt.

 

[Terpene]

The issue isn't as much the yeast not floccing, the bottles are clear as day before I pour them, it is the yeast cake not holding tight for the pour. Now, some enterprising wippersnapper needs to come up with a "yeast cement" to keep the yeast where it belongs at the bottom of the bottle...

Yes, what you're describing is flocculation. The yeast already invented it.

 

[Terpene]

Yes, what you're describing is flocculation. The yeast already invented it.

I should add, 001/1056/Chico is known to be a medium-low floccultor.

 

[smata67]

They are floccing alright, but not holding hands come pour time. I can hear them screaming as they're pulled away from the bottom of the bottle and spoiling my dreams of crystal clear brew. I'd rather they stay with their friends and family too, but life is cruel.

 

[Terpene]

LOL.

More flocculant strains hold on tighter.

Try WLP002 -- it flocs like crazy, but will give some banana esters. But if you like Deschutes beers, you'll like that strain.

 

[jrgtr42]

How are you pouring it? Are you basically dumping it out? Or pouring gently. I've gotten in the habit (even with commercial beers) to treat it with kid gloves once I'm ready to pour. Gently put it down on the counter, gently open the top, gently pour down the side of the glass, and make sure to watch for cloudiness when I get near the end - I usually end up leaving a half-ounce to an ounce behind.

 

[kh54s10]

I for one have never had the problem that the OP describes...... Pour gently until you see debris going into the glass --- then STOP.. I lose only about 1/4 inch from the bottom of a bottle. But then again I haven't used 1056 for years....

 

[govner1]

Try Wyeast 1272 or 1098

 

[juggabrew]

You could try gelatin. Mix some up and dump it into your fermentor and wait a few days. Of course this would work better if your able to cold crash the beer after you’ve hit FG.

 

[SanPancho]

LOL.

More flocculant strains hold on tighter.

Try WLP002 -- it flocs like crazy, but will give some banana esters. But if you like Deschutes beers, you'll like that strain.

Its not the same. Flocculation is the yeast cells clumping together, which creates enough mass that they fall out of suspension. Not the same as compaction. For instance, 850 flocs well, but the cake is powdery. Just breath on the carboy and it will stir back up into the beer.

OP should try cbc for bottle carbing. It flocs and compacts, and likely will help keep the primary yeast on the bottom as well.

 

[day_trippr]

Maybe a 30 minute chill isn't enough to compact the yeast.
Don't most folks still stick post-carbonated bottles in the fridge for at least a week before opening?

Cheers!

 

[Tbagger]

Imperial A18 Joystick or Wyeast 1764 (Pacman yeast) is my go to for clean ales. It's similar to 1056 but has a med-high flocculation. It's super clean in the low 60's and I haven't gotten an attenuation below 78% out of a couple dozen batches using it.

 

[rhys333]

Three different batches now, oldest at 5 weeks after bottling, and I can't pour a clear glass. Beer looks clear as day in the bottle, but no amount of tenderness on the pour can keep the beer from ending up cloudy after pouring. What would be a good substitute going forward, a clean yeast for american ales and IPAs that will compact down after a reasonable amount of time to pour a clear pint?

Wyeast 1968. Ferments fast, drops clear, and the yeast compacts almost solid. It's also very versatile and can be used in a wide range of styles. It's my 'house' strain, and I understand a lot of commercial brewers rely on it for the same reasons. Wyeast claims it ferments sweet, but I find it attenuated dry (82%) unless I mash high.

 

[EnglishAndy]

I know someone here mentioned gelatin but whenever I've used it with S05 it caused 'fluffy bottoms' in the bottle where the trub would rise as soon as the cap was popped.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I know someone here mentioned gelatin but whenever I've used it with S05 it caused 'fluffy bottoms' in the bottle where the trub would rise as soon as the cap was popped.

I get a fluffy bottom if I wear track pants without underwear.

 

[Terpene]

Its not the same. Flocculation is the yeast cells clumping together, which creates enough mass that they fall out of suspension. Not the same as compaction. For instance, 850 flocs well, but the cake is powdery. Just breath on the carboy and it will stir back up into the beer.

WADR, I don't even know what yeast "compaction" is. It's not a commonly used technical term regarding yeast, AFAIK, and anyway it's not a term I used.

In studying the mechanisms behind flocculation, one comes to understand that more flocculant phenotypes form larger flocs of cells that stick together and STAY stuck together.

I've never used WLP850, but the reason it remains powdery after settling, as you point out, is because it's not a highly flocculant strain. It's considered a medium flocculant strain, which Chris White describes as being powdery (https://www.whitelabs.com/beer/flocculation-basics).

I'm attaching a little flocculation diagram I ran across. Hopefully it will aid in the understanding of what flocculation actually is. If nothing else, it's kind of cool to look at.

[Also, regarding the diagram, note that higher flocculating strains tend to express a greater number and higher density of Flo proteins on the cell surface.]

 

[SanPancho]

I añready stated thatnflocculation is the cells joining together. Are we in disagreement there or something? I don’t understand why that is being debated it seems.

The term is self evident- Compaction is how well it compacts, i.e. how thick the sludge is at the bottom of the ferm. The very fact that a yeast can be described as powder tells you that there are varying levels of compaction exhibited. If your plan is to simply google terms instead of listen to experience then id tell you its not really necessary. Again, its self evident. Some yeast forms hard, dense mass and some will remain more runny and lack viscosity, easily swirled up and into beer . The very problem the op cites.

If you’ve ever punched through a yeast cake trying to drop it out of a cone, thats compaction. The less-compact yeasts will slide right on down the cone. The compact stuff will ofeten be so thick as to require top pressure to help push it out.

 

[Terpene]

The very fact that a yeast can be described as powder tells you that there are varying levels of compaction exhibited.

It's called flocculation. There are varying levels of flocculation. Sorry, but "compaction" isn't a thing. Flocculation is.

If you’ve ever punched through a yeast cake trying to drop it out of a cone, thats compaction.

Nope, that's flocculation.

Some yeast forms hard, dense mass...

Yup, the more flocculant ones.

...and some will remain more runny and lack viscosity, easily swirled up and into beer.

Yup, the less flocculant ones.

 

[smata67]

After putting a flashlight on the bottle, I see there are specks suspended from top to bottom, but the beer is otherwise crystal clear. This may have been related to the dry hopping (I saw a layer about 1/4" wide of specks suspended about 1" below the top level just before racking and this layer developed after dry hopping). It's like these specks are stuck in jello, they don't move around unless the bottle is disturbed. But it is not these specks that are clouding the beer. The yeast at the bottom is quite more runny after pouring than I'm used to seeing. I would like this yeast cake to be more compacted, seems much looser than in the past. The yeast for these three batches is all from the same 1056 package, two of them are repitches, but all seem to exhibit this very running yeast issue. I will probably not pitch the remaining yeast I have left and experiment with some of the different other yeasts being mentioned.

 

[Terpene]

Hey smata67,

Give a listen to Chris White talking about WLP002:

https://www.whitelabs.com/sites/default/files/strain-audio/wlp002_0.mp3

Always good hearing straight from the guru himself.

 

[kh54s10]

Maybe a 30 minute chill isn't enough to compact the yeast.
Don't most folks still stick post-carbonated bottles in the fridge for at least a week before opening?

Cheers!

Not me. Overnight usually and it may be a few days before I drink the last bottle...... But 30 minutes is not likely enough time.

 

[SanPancho]

It's called flocculation. There are varying levels of flocculation. Sorry, but "compaction" isn't a thing. Flocculation is.



Nope, that's flocculation.



Yup, the more flocculant ones.



Yup, the less flocculant ones.



Try not to be insulting and condescending. I'm just trying to have grown up conversation about flocculation. Maybe you could learn something?

It's called flocculation. There are varying levels of flocculation. Sorry, but "compaction" isn't a thing. Flocculation is.



Nope, that's flocculation.



Yup, the more flocculant ones.



Yup, the less flocculant ones.



Try not to be insulting and condescending. I'm just trying to have grown up conversation about flocculation. Maybe you could learn something?

https://discussions.probrewer.com/showthread.php?70727-Dropping-yeast-on-heavily-dry-hopped-beers

https://discussions.probrewer.com/showthread.php?80950-Yeast-Haze-with-London-ale-III

https://discussions.probrewer.com/showthread.php?62032-Sediment-in-beer-and-loss-need-help!

https://discussions.probrewer.com/showthread.php?3763-FV-Cone-angle

Heres some reading for you- every one of these threads references compaction of yeast. Why? Because flocculation and compaction are different things.

 

[FatDragon]

I believe I've read about some breweries adding a highly flocculant strain late in fermentation in order to help most of the yeast flocc out in a compact cake without impacting flavor, but since nobody seems to have mentioned it in almost 30 replies I wonder if I'm not mistaken. If a highly-flocculant yeast really can bind to less-flocculant yeast and drop it out of suspension, I'd just add some S-04 a few days after pitching the primary strain. That stuff floccs so hard you'll need a jackhammer to clean the sediment out of your bottles after pouring.

And yes, fridge time does make a big difference. I've had beers that have poured hazy after a week in the fridge that were read-a-book-through-it clear after a month. At that point, you still have to be careful about your pour because a low-flocculating yeast that's 99.99% fallen out of suspension will still stir up easily. Meanwhile, an S-04 beer might pour clear after a day in the fridge even if you dump it out of the bottle like you're supposed to pour a nitro bottle.

Also note that an overcarbed bottle will also stir up the yeast when you open it as CO2 bubbles form in the yeast cake and toss it all through the beer, so that's another thing to be aware of.

 

[mediant]

I'd just add some S-04 a few days after pitching the primary strain. That stuff floccs so hard you'll need a jackhammer to clean the sediment out of your bottles after pouring.

Adding a highly flocculating yeast after Day 3 of fermentation didn’t help flocculating the yeast out of solution
OTOH, co-pitched yeasts behave differently, e.g. WLP200 mixes WLP001 and WLP002, resulting in greatly improved flocculation (and subsequently compaction ).