Pro & Cons of Conicals

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swampbrewcrew

swampbrewcrew

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I'm putting this here since it didn't really fit anywhere else. What's the big advantage of the conical fermenters? When I started brewing a few years ago only the guys with $$ and wanting to pimp out the brewery had them. Now quality stainless steel ones are available for less than $250 and PET versions half that much and they are becoming more common. I'm doing much better financially than when I started brewing and I don't mind dropping some cash if it will improve my beer, but for the price it needs to be pretty substantial. Is there anything in particular that makes them superior to good ole buckets and carboys?
 
alot of people use them, as its easier to remove the trub and yeast for harvesting. plus they look cool AF. id like to have a couple.
 
If you switch to using conical fermenters you won't find much difference in the quality of your brews. I made the move from carboys to conicals and have been very happy with the decision.
I did try the plastic conical fermenters. I found they are difficult to clean properly and don't hold up very well. I then went with SS fermenters and I love them. No more racking needed. I use co2 to push the beer from the fermenter through filters to kegs so the beer never gets exposed to air. I spent a little more and rigged my fermenters with heating pads and cooling coils and glycol so I can easily manage fermentation temps to make lagers and cold crash without moving the fermenter to a temp controlled cooler/fridge.
As stated, the overall quality of the beer is negligible but I have found that it will store and keep longer. I presume that's due to the lack of exposure to air.
In the couple of years I've been brewing I found the biggest improvment to the quality of the beer was when I went to an all grain system. I would advise you look at that investment first if you haven't already.
By the way, conicals look very cool in the home brew space!
 
Does a conical make better beer, who knows, but most commercial fermenters are giant conicals. I bought a FastFermenter for the convenience of kegging, yeast harvesting, and I believe the beer comes out cleaner. I don't believe it is any more effort to clean it out then a bucket and far easier then a carboy. YMMV
 
swampbrewcrew said:
What's the big advantage of the conical fermenters?
Is there anything in particular that makes them superior to good ole buckets and carboys?
Click to expand...
The BIG advantage? I'd say the ability to do transfers using Co2 to push the beer out.
It seems logical that beer NOT exposed to oxygen in the packaging process would be better than beer exposed to oxygen.
I've never seen a side by side test at the home brew level to see if the difference can be detected by the average drinker. But that would be an interesting experiment.
If you have temperature control equipment, like a chest freezer, your new conical may or may not fit in there.
Some conicals can have glycol cooling systems added, so that would be an advantage over a bucket or carboy.
I keep my brewing rig simple and cheap, but if I won the lottery and money was not an issue, I'd use conicals.
 
As mentioned, yeast dumps and the fact they look cool. Along with buckets, much easier to dry hop if you make beers requiring a ton of hops. Dry hopping those kind of beers in a carboy sucks IMO.
 
seabrew8 said:
If you believe beer fermented in SS or plastic will make a really big difference your basically a fool. Try a blind test.
Click to expand...

And if you think that having better equipment in the long run wont be better and help yield more consistent beer then you are the fool.

Never used **** at work that was plastic. Wonder why.
 
TorMag said:
Does a conical make better beer, who knows, but most commercial fermenters are giant conicals. I bought a FastFermenter for the convenience of kegging, yeast harvesting, and I believe the beer comes out cleaner. I don't believe it is any more effort to clean it out then a bucket and far easier then a carboy. YMMV
Click to expand...

Conicals are vessels designed for brewing, and carboys and buckets are vessels that work for brewing. Conicals are less labor intensive for racking and cleaning carboys is a pain in the arse. Do conicals make better beer? No they don't. If your a newer brewer, I would stick with buckets and carboys until you know that this hobby becomes a passion. Once that happens, you will be happy to spend for the bling.
 
Having said that I am going to be buying two of the ss brew buckets. Just enough features of both worlds that make me happy.

I need to dump my glass carboys I dont feel safe using them anymore frankly.
 
skraeling said:
Having said that I am going to be buying two of the ss brew buckets. Just enough features of both worlds that make me happy.

I need to dump my glass carboys I dont feel safe using them anymore frankly.
Click to expand...

I'd love a conical, but I really have no good place to use them that makes yeast harvest feasible. Plus I basically don't harvest yeast anymore.

So conicals don't make much sense for me.

I chose to try a SS bucket. I got one form Chapman and it works great! Really easy to clean, carry, use. If I ever suspect infection it can go right in the oven and get baked.

Now if i were REALLY anal about oxygen, a conical would make it really easy to dump yeast and trub while using a CO2 device to replace that volume with CO2. Much harder to do in a bucket!
 
Homercidal said:
I'd love a conical, but I really have no good place to use them that makes yeast harvest feasible. Plus I basically don't harvest yeast anymore.

So conicals don't make much sense for me.

I chose to try a SS bucket. I got one form Chapman and it works great! Really easy to clean, carry, use. If I ever suspect infection it can go right in the oven and get baked.

Now if i were REALLY anal about oxygen, a conical would make it really easy to dump yeast and trub while using a CO2 device to replace that volume with CO2. Much harder to do in a bucket!
Click to expand...

I frankly think the whole oxygen oxidation thing is friggin over rated at a home brewing level. Maybe for a competition it might matter, but largely I think its the new HBT "buzzword" as of late.
 
Pro
-Very easy to clean
-Harvesting yeast is a joke (I collect slurry and keep it in fridge until the next brew, no washing needed)
-CO2 transfer without any worry about the pressure.
-Dry hop is easy and it can be a primary and a secondary vessel.
-I don't need a fridge or a freezer to control fermetation temp. I bought the FTss from ssbrewtech so I can save place and get an accurate temperature reading INSIDE the fermenter.
-I really love the sampling valve so I can quickly check the gravity.

Cons:
$$$$

Overall:
I don't think you'll get a better beer from a conical..... but to me, it's all about features. It makes my brewing process more enjoyable than using carboy or a need to buy a fridge or a keezer.

ad06bd2f42.jpg
 
skraeling said:
I frankly think the whole oxygen oxidation thing is friggin over rated at a home brewing level. Maybe for a competition it might matter, but largely I think its the new HBT "buzzword" as of late.
Click to expand...

Do you say that from experience? Why would oxidation be any different on the home brewing level vs the commercial level? I do all of the anal steps to avoid oxygen exposure, including what Homercidal mentioned about dumping trub (I also do it during cold crashing and racking to kegs) and it all makes a huge difference. Conicals make it so simple to do it's silly not to do it.
 
A word of advice about fermenting in SS versus plastic/glass for those thinking of making the switch or had recently made the switch... Beer Stone is something that you will have to look out for. It seems to form on SS, but not plastic or glass. I learned this the hard way after loosing a 10 gal batch. The BS is usually greyish white, making it hard to see on a SS fermenter. The stuff is easy to clean off with a little elbow grease, but a Star Sans soak doesn't seem to be enough.
 
kevink said:
Do you say that from experience?
Click to expand...
I couldnt tell what oxidation tastes like. Can you?


kevink said:
Why would oxidation be any different on the home brewing level vs the commercial level?
Click to expand...
Im not exactly making beer to cGMP standards here. My beer never lasts that long either. Is oxidation a instant process or is it gradual?

kevink said:
I do all of the anal steps to avoid oxygen exposure, including what Homercidal mentioned about dumping trub (I also do it during cold crashing and racking to kegs) and it all makes a huge difference.
Click to expand...

Do you have actual proof? Like any legitimate quantifiable data?


im not flaming here or trolling. I am actually very curious if it is as big a deal as everyone makes it out to be.

I dont have a conical (yet) so I cant do pressure transfers just yet. #soon
 
skraeling said:
I couldnt tell what oxidation tastes like. Can you?


Is oxidation a instant process or is it gradual?
#soon
Click to expand...

To these points Oxidation tastes a lot like cardboard. Tear a corner of a cereal box and chew it and there you go. It can also present as a sherry type flavor in malty beers.

I do a lot of competition judging and it is present often in lagers, and bigger beers that have sat for awhile.

The process is generally gradual and in my experience becomes more problematic with age.

Oxygen exposure also reduces hop aroma dramatically in my experience. in my experience co2 transferred ipas with dry hopping done in primary then again in a closed keg before being pushed into a serving keg are dramatically different than a ipa dry hopped in the fermentor and then racked with a racking cane.

A lot of this can be avoided just as well using carboys etc it just takes more work.

As some others said I prefer harvesting from a starter rather than saving a yeast cake so I chose a couple of preowned ssbrewbuckets over conicals.
 
To the OPs question, I have a fast ferment conical and buckets. I personally make better beer in the buckets and have stopped using the fast ferment. With my setup, it was more work on brew day to get the beer into the fast ferment and it is much easier for me to control temps with my buckets than the fast ferment. Harvesting the yeast was nice, but not really that much easier than my bucket process.

That is my experience on my setup and with 1 particular conical. Some of the other conicals would have worked much better for me in restrospect, though they come at a higher price. Brew day setup and ferm chamber setup makes a big difference with how effective it could be for you.
 
Interesting people say these things are easier to clean than a carboy. That's precisely what I absolutely love about a carboy. No loose parts and seals to worry about getting clean/sanitized.

Before fermentation = slosh some starsan around in it.
After Fermentation = add 1-2 gal of hot water, 1 tbsp. of PBW and slosh it around, let it sit for a few minutes and repeat. Stick a brush in for the stubborn stuff. Takes about 3 minutes.

I guess if you let stuff dry in it you're in for a challenge but a little discipline and it's about the easiest part of brewing.

I assume the fact that they net you less surface area between the trub/yeast and your beer = fewer off flavors is a load of marketing BS? Unless you leave it in there for a few months I guess.
 
I appreciate everyone's input. They look cool but for the money I think I'm going to do some work over the next few weeks on the serving side. Setting up taps, hiding draft lines, and eliminating foam is relatively new beast for me and I'm having fun with it.

Homercidal- if I could go back in time and rebuy any of my equipment so far, I would get upright fermentation chambers. Lifting carboys and kegs out of chest freezers will be the death of me.
 
As the owner of 5 carboys, numerous buckets, and now two SS conicals; I offer the following as the primary advantages of the conical:

1) Trub settles into the bottom and has a reduced surface area that contacts the beer. That combined with the ability to dump the trub, negates the need to transfer to a secondary.
2) Easier to clean

That being said, I firmly believe that after sanitization practices, fermentation temperature control is the next biggest determinant to the quality of your beer. If you don't have it yet, invest in a ferm chamber.
 
I just got an SS Brewtech conical bucket a couple of months ago and brewed about 4 batches. I like it a lot. It is much easier to clean than a carboy, and I really like the ball valve to transfer for kegging with gravity instead of a racking cane.

I don't like that you can see the activity or the krausen until it blows through the airlock. At least with carboys you can see it coming..
 
I would guess once you get up past 1/2 BBL you'd want to ferment in one vessel rather than several 5-7 gal buckets.
 
Great discussion guys. I happen to be somewhat of an authority on the subject. First and foremost I am a partner with Minibrew, therefore I accept that my opinion may be seen as biast. However before I partnered with Minibrew.com, I had done some extensive testing with buckets, glass, and conicals. Long story short, there is an almost neglegable variance between the end product. The few exceptions are clearity of the beer, fermentation time, and easy of yeast reclamation.

Clearity: This has more to due with the lack of turbulence when racking. With our conicals you rack from above the yeast cake. Now you can do the same with a siphone however, your chances of grabbing some yeast and trub are increased.

Fermentation: My side by side tests showed Fermentation times are quicker with our conicals compared to buckets and competing products such as Fast Ferment. I believe this to be due to two factors. 1. The pitch of the minibrew is optimal for yeast convection during the active phase. 2. More yeast have phisical access to the wort since everything is in one chamber, like a bucket.

Reuse of yeast: Collecting yeast with a conical is super easy. Open a sterilized vessel (I use a small ball jar) turn the valve and cap it. Done. We have an additional advantage that we do not reintroduce and O2 back into the beer when opening the valve. To me this is a huge cost saver as yeast is one of the most expensive parts of a brew day. $$$

Stainless vs Plastic:
Stainless is great, it truly is the standard for big beer. However it's expensive, and if you scratch it you may need to re capacitae it. With HDPE it's inexpensive and if you scratch it, you simply cut off any excess material left from the scratch. It's a bit lighter and has a better R value.
 
skraeling said:
I frankly think the whole oxygen oxidation thing is friggin over rated at a home brewing level. Maybe for a competition it might matter, but largely I think its the new HBT "buzzword" as of late.
Click to expand...

Till you have a batch that gets oxidized and have to dump the last remaining bottles. Yes, it's real and does happen. Yes, I speak from personal experience.
 
skraeling said:
I couldnt tell what oxidation tastes like. Can you?

im not flaming here or trolling.
Click to expand...

Really? Because that's exactly what it seems like you're doing. You're telling me you've never tasted a stale beer that's been sitting out for an hour or two?

If you're really that sheltered from oxygenated beer, it's not hard to reproduce. Pour a beer, let it sit out for a while, then come back and taste it (compare it to a freshly poured beer). It's not only noticeable, it's overwhelming.
 
on oxidation, C'mon man, drink a beer out of a growler then cap and refrigerate and drink the rest 2 days later. The beer will not be the same, not even close, it will usually suck.

Yeast harvest can be done with virtual any fermentation vessel. The conical makes it easier and produces a cleaner yeast with more viability and desireable characteristics since you can take the "middle cut" without the trub and early dead, and also without the low floculators of the late cut. That said, I also have SS buckets as well and I use Braufessor's harvest technique very successfully.
 
I find my conical helps me make better beer, but it’s mostly because it changed my process.

1.) Dumping sediment that made it from the boil kettle. I attach a sight glass to my dump valve and dump the sediment that settles out an hour after transferring from the boil kettle, then add my yeast. (Yes, Irish Moss and a whirlpool are supposed to take care of that, but my technique apparently needs some work, especially with highly hopped beers)

2.) Dumping trub after primary fermentation so I can avoid transferring to a secondary.

3.) Sample valve makes it quick, easy, and sanitary to check on progress so I actually DO take readings instead of guessing.

4.) Cleanup is a breeze (since I bought a spray ball and pump).

But I think the biggest factor is the internal temperature control coil in my fermenter. Being able to hold the fermentation temperature to within the yeasts' range (especially during aggressive primary on high gravity brews) eliminates the undesirable temperature related flavor artifacts and the subsequent huge blow-offs I would get from letting the fermentation temperature get out of hand.

I also use the coil to cold crash when the beer is done so I can transfer clearer beer to the kegs.
 
I think it's easier to get better beer from a stainless conical - it doesn't magically make your beer better if bad habits abound, but if you leverage its advantages like the following, the sum of the small improvements in brewing make better beer more likely more consistently:

- stainless steel much less prone to harboring remnants from previous batches/uncleanliness - this is particularly true after several uses as the metal won't develop imperfections/scratches/etc. as rapidly that make that an increasing possibility
- because of ability to dump trub, you can use one vessel for entire fermentation and pre-packaging conditioning which means less exposure to outside air or other contaminants (that is, if you are introducing CO2 to replace air volume lost when trub leaves the dump valve) from eliminating racking to secondary and also allowing direct transfer to keg in closed fashion (if you keg your finished beer)
- racking arm/valve allow sampling to monitor gravity, clarity, flavor, aroma, pH, etc. to better monitor fermentation
- it could just be me, but even when I've done CIP on my plastic buckets, I still smell a distinct aroma of yeast and/or hops (degrees on both depend on what was just in there) for a while afterward. I don't have that with my stainless conical, and it begs the question how much that contributes to the next beer
- some say 2nd and 3rd generations of yeast can be more viable/virile than the initial pitch when harvested properly (i.e. from the middle third of the cone at optimal times), possibly because of selecting yeast with best floc profile and other desirable traits - conical makes it possible to more deliberately harvest the particular layer of yeast to try and achieve this
- does prep you to work on pro equipment if you find you want to take the hobby further...possibly professional. I'm not sure if this is a thing, but I'm guessing people are also more inclined to buy a used stainless fermenter than a plastic one because of sanitation and durability concerns (edit - this "pro" doesn't relate to making better beer, necessarily)

Having said all that, I do still brew in my plastic buckets fairly often since they fit in my temp control keezer, and I've brewed pretty decent beers in them.
 
congrats on winning the thread I guess.

I purge my kegs just saying. Do I go to the absolute ass end extreme that some people do lol no.

If you believe beer fermented in SS or plastic will make a really big difference your basically a fool. Try a blind test.
Click to expand...

its not that it will make better beer automatically but that it CAN in my opinion. Why is almost everything food related worth a damn stainless?
 

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