Pressurized Closed Loop Corny Keg Fermenting

[Hannabrew]

The syringe method works nicely if there's no pressure in the vessel you're adding the solution to. FWIW, I have been using a pet bottle with a carb cap with interior barb and tubing cut to length to get my solutions into pressurized vessels with minimal 02.

Sanitize everything
Boil and quickly cool and water you are using
Add solution to pet bottle
Loosely attach carb cap with co2 attached and allow it to purge the bottle.
Once you feel it is sufficiently purged, tighten cap and pressurize to about 10-15 PSI higher than the receiving vessel
Attach jumper cable from carb cap to receiving vessel's gas post and watch it suck up the liquid.

 

[Andre3000]

The syringe method works nicely if there's no pressure in the vessel you're adding the solution to. FWIW, I have been using a pet bottle with a carb cap with interior barb and tubing cut to length to get my solutions into pressurized vessels with minimal 02.

Sanitize everything
Boil and quickly cool and water you are using
Add solution to pet bottle
Loosely attach carb cap with co2 attached and allow it to purge the bottle.
Once you feel it is sufficiently purged, tighten cap and pressurize to about 10-15 PSI higher than the receiving vessel
Attach jumper cable from carb cap to receiving vessel's gas post and watch it suck up the liquid.

Fantastic idea. How much pressure can a pop bottle handle? Haha

 

[schematix]

Fantastic idea. How much pressure can a pop bottle handle? Haha

More than you’d think... easily 100-150 psi. That’s why 2L bottles are great for making dry ice or draino “bombs”.

Even aluminum cans can hold an incredible amount of pressure.

 

[crane]

The syringe method works nicely if there's no pressure in the vessel you're adding the solution to. FWIW, I have been using a pet bottle with a carb cap with interior barb and tubing cut to length to get my solutions into pressurized vessels with minimal 02.

Sanitize everything
Boil and quickly cool and water you are using
Add solution to pet bottle
Loosely attach carb cap with co2 attached and allow it to purge the bottle.
Once you feel it is sufficiently purged, tighten cap and pressurize to about 10-15 PSI higher than the receiving vessel
Attach jumper cable from carb cap to receiving vessel's gas post and watch it suck up the liquid.

Do you purge the 2L bottle by squeezing it to get the air out first or do you leave the cap loose to blow CO2 through the bottle for a bit?

 

[Hannabrew]

Do you purge the 2L bottle by squeezing it to get the air out first or do you leave the cap loose to blow CO2 through the bottle for a bit?

Both. I usually use the smallest bottle possible just so there's less 02 to purge. A decent quality cheap flat bottomed water bottle works best in my opinion.

 

[BeerFst]

Just read through this entire thread, having just attempted my first closed transfer earlier this week. It didn't go well. While clearly a cardinal sin, i was fermenting in my brew bucket, and attempted a closed transfer to a star san purged keg (i didn't get all the bubbles out of the posts, but didn't think about just adding more solution as mentioned on page 1 here). While running, i stopped getting flow, even though i had the PRV opened and thought it was hydro-static pressure overcoming gravity, but that is not the case after reading through here. (i really should have known 27.7"/PSI considering i am a mechanical engineer, but i haven't had to do hydro-statics for the past 10 years and that was in school). Anyway im thinking it was a clog now.

I am going to start fermenting in a corny next batch and will try a modified version of what is described here. But i did have one question. Why push the water with C02 from a tank? Why not just use the pressure generated during ferm to push out the water? a full keg of water ends up being ~2PSI hydro-statically right? so its basically a spund until you push all the water out, no?

 

[thekraken]

...Anyway im thinking it was a clog now.

Been there, done that. Had to remove the post and run a brush through the dip tube a couple times. I try not to forget my hop spiders and and hop bags now. If you're racking from a bucket to a keg's out post it's a good idea to put a filter on the end of the racking cane to keep the hops out of it, also put a SS washer inside the filter to keep the filter itself from collapsing and clogging. @day_trippr has pictures of a good example of this here.

I am going to start fermenting in a corny next batch and will try a modified version of what is described here. But i did have one question. Why push the water with C02 from a tank? Why not just use the pressure generated during ferm to push out the water? a full keg of water ends up being ~2PSI hydro-statically right? so its basically a spund until you push all the water out, no?

I had the same thought, I might try it. I actually asked OP this same question a long time ago, I think the answer was that it really isn't wasting much gas at all to just push the water out and CO2 is cheap.

 

[BeerFst]

and CO2 is cheap.

its not really the cost of the C02 its just annoying to go get a swap, especially since the best place to do isn't open convenient times.

on the filter, i really didnt think it would end up being that much of problem with the bucket, but i was clearly wrong. I do have one of the utah biodiesel filters that Janish recommends and will be using that in the FV for sure. It's still in the box, and i had not soaked it in oxy yet, so i just went without. While this was my first NEIPA and first time going through the dip tube, I had never had problems before so i was just over confident. Next batch is gonna be a blonde without DH, so while i may not need the filtration it will be a good dry run on the new process.

 

[schematix]

I had the same thought, I might try it. I actually asked OP this same question a long time ago, I think the answer was that it really isn't wasting much gas at all to just push the water out and CO2 is cheap.

OP here...

The end requirement is that the keg is purged of air as much as possible.

Filling with water (or sanitizer) and pushing with tank CO2 will get you about 99.9% there. I do this currently because it's easy for me. I have a 20lb CO2 tank i use for everything except serving that i get it refilled about once a year at my LHBS. But i understand not everyone has the same situation.

Another alternative is to route the fermentation gases through the serving keg. I typically do a combination of both, but plan to go to using just fermentation gases eventually.

Right now i fill my kegs so full that blow off is inevitable. I just haven't built something to catch the kraussen while allowing the gasses through. For now i just wait until blow off subsides, then connect the FV to SK to continue purging the water purged keg.

 

[thekraken]

As long as you filter the hops from the brew kettle when transfering to the FV and use a hop sock with dry hops you should be good. Just no free floating hops in the fermenter.

 

[thekraken]

... Right now i fill my kegs so full that blow off is inevitable. I just haven't built something to catch the kraussen while allowing the gasses through. For now i just wait until blow off subsides, then connect the FV to SK to continue purging the water purged keg.

I plan to use a home water filter housing in between the FV and SK since I have it.

 

[schematix]

I plan to use a home water filter housing in between the FV and SK since I have it.

That's my plan too.

Kicking myself i gave one i had away.

 

[stickyfinger]

I am going to start fermenting in a corny next batch and will try a modified version of what is described here. But i did have one question. Why push the water with C02 from a tank? Why not just use the pressure generated during ferm to push out the water? a full keg of water ends up being ~2PSI hydro-statically right? so its basically a spund until you push all the water out, no?

My only fear is that a siphon would form and then air would be pulled in through a fitting or the keg lid where pressure coming from the outside is not usually a concern. Maybe that is irrational though.

 

[Andre3000]

I've done the closed transfer thing a bunch now and and I'm convinced there's a lot of merit to it, even beyond oxygen exposure so thanks for schematix for this starting this thread. I love brewing NEIPAs (who doesn't right now), though dealing with hop particulate is a huge pain.

Since I have to try everything, I decided I'd buy both the Utah Biodiesel Supply / Scott Janish recommended / Arbor Fab dip tube filter and the Clear Draught floating dip tube and compare them. In both of these examples I brewed a heavily dry hopped NEIPA style beer.

Let me begin by saying both of these guys were an absolute pleasure to deal with, had great communication, and I would do business with either of them again. They both also offered easy shipping to Canada.

Utah Biodiesel Supply / Scott Janish recommended / Arbor Fab Dip Tube Filter:
https://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#autosiphon

You first must trim your beverage dip tube. I did not get any pictures of it but I can assure for pin lock kegs 16-5/8" seemed to work ok (more on that below). I used some non-toxic degreaser followed by boiling water and soap to get the oils off it from manufacturing. I removed the beverage post and dip tube.

Next up is trimming the actual filter. They recommend sharp scissors... Make sure they're sharp or you're gonna make a mess. A grinder with a cut off wheel might have worked better. Scott Janish showed his with a bit of a gap at the top of the stopper:

The dip tube is not a tight fit on the stopper! So I decided to get crafty. I trimmed it to about 18-3/4" (again, pin lock keg!) and with a #6.5 stopper you can just barely wedge it underneath where dip tube goes in and form a good seal to stop evil evil hop particulate:

The trade off to this "wedging" method is you have to make sure that the filter is aligned correctly the filter, could be ripped by the end of the dip tube as it's being installed, maybe. It didn't happen to me, just a word of caution. Reinstall your beverage post.

Sanitize, add your wort, pitch your yeast, dry hop like mad and when she's done, start your transfer. I only got the siphon started with a small amount of pressure! I was very leary of the filter packing off. Since the dip tube was trimmed, I had to tilt the keg at almost a 45° angle towards the dip tube to get the last of the goodness transferred out:

Yay filter! This worked extremely well, and I didn't manage to clog pack it off with the gravity siphon. Not a single bit of hop particulate found in the serving keg!! One small downside to this setup is you've got to take the beverage post and dip tube out to get the screen out. This can get cumbersome.

Clear Draught Floating Dip Tube:
http://www.clearbeerdraughtsystem.com/

I love smart designs; and this is one of them. There's that other floating dip tube and it may work ok, but without a filter and some other logistical items I figured I may encounter problems with it so I went with this one. There are very detailed instructions on the website as well as a nifty filter kit add-on (buy this too obviously).

Same general cleaning procedure, remove beverage post, etc. The tricky bit is trimming that silicone tube just right! You want the silicone tube to just run out of slack as the suction/float assembly comes to the bottom of the keg. Measure twice, cut once:

Make sure you test this lil' guy out with water before you rack into your keg to make sure it ends up in a similar position as I've shown.

Install your nifty little filter assembly (their photo):

Since this floats, I was not worried in the least about hops clogging the smaller filter off.

The extra bit of work here is you've got to sanitize everything separately. You don't want to be shaking the piss out of your floating dip tube assembly in there. Blast some sanitizer through BOTH disconnects, soak the whole assembly in a vessel of sanitizer, drain the keg, sanitize your hands, and gently place the assembly into the keg, make sure it looks ok and hook the silicone tube up to the trimmed dip tube they've provided. So, sanitize, add your wort, pitch your yeast, dry hop like mad and when she's done, start your transfer:

Rest assured, there is next to nothing left for beer in that keg. What poured out after was a very thick slurry of hops / yeast. Awesome!

There you have it. I'm not going to say one is better than the other, they're different and they both work damn well. I will most likely be sticking with the Clear Draught system because I don't like having to remove the post/dip tube every time. YMMV!

Hopefully this helps someone out there. Cheers!

 

[stickyfinger]

I've done the closed transfer thing a bunch now and and I'm convinced there's a lot of merit to it, even beyond oxygen exposure so thanks for schematix for this starting this thread. I love brewing NEIPAs (who doesn't right now), though dealing with hop particulate is a huge pain.

Since I have to try everything, I decided I'd buy both the Utah Biodiesel Supply / Scott Janish recommended / Arbor Fab dip tube filter and the Clear Draught floating dip tube and compare them. In both of these examples I brewed a heavily dry hopped NEIPA style beer.

Let me begin by saying both of these guys were an absolute pleasure to deal with, had great communication, and I would do business with either of them again. They both also offered easy shipping to Canada.

Utah Biodiesel Supply / Scott Janish recommended / Arbor Fab Dip Tube Filter:
https://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#autosiphon
View attachment 569604

You first must trim your beverage dip tube. I did not get any pictures of it but I can assure for pin lock kegs 16-5/8" seemed to work ok (more on that below). I used some non-toxic degreaser followed by boiling water and soap to get the oils off it from manufacturing. I removed the beverage post and dip tube.

Next up is trimming the actual filter. They recommend sharp scissors... Make sure they're sharp or you're gonna make a mess. A grinder with a cut off wheel might have worked better. Scott Janish showed his with a bit of a gap at the top of the stopper:
View attachment 569605

The dip tube is not a tight fit on the stopper! So I decided to get crafty. I trimmed it to about 18-3/4" (again, pin lock keg!) and with a #6.5 stopper you can just barely wedge it underneath where dip tube goes in and form a good seal to stop evil evil hop particulate:
View attachment 569606

The trade off to this "wedging" method is you have to make sure that the filter is aligned correctly the filter, could be ripped by the end of the dip tube as it's being installed, maybe. It didn't happen to me, just a word of caution. Reinstall your beverage post.

Sanitize, add your wort, pitch your yeast, dry hop like mad and when she's done, start your transfer. I only got the siphon started with a small amount of pressure! I was very leary of the filter packing off. Since the dip tube was trimmed, I had to tilt the keg at almost a 45° angle towards the dip tube to get the last of the goodness transferred out:
View attachment 569608

Yay filter! This worked extremely well, and I didn't manage to clog pack it off with the gravity siphon. Not a single bit of hop particulate found in the serving keg!! One small downside to this setup is you've got to take the beverage post and dip tube out to get the screen out. This can get cumbersome.

Clear Draught Floating Dip Tube:
http://www.clearbeerdraughtsystem.com/
View attachment 569609

I love smart designs; and this is one of them. There's that other floating dip tube and it may work ok, but without a filter and some other logistical items I figured I may encounter problems with it so I went with this one. There are very detailed instructions on the website as well as a nifty filter kit add-on (buy this too obviously).

Same general cleaning procedure, remove beverage post, etc. The tricky bit is trimming that silicone tube just right! You want the silicone tube to just run out of slack as the suction/float assembly comes to the bottom of the keg. Measure twice, cut once:
View attachment 569611

Make sure you test this lil' guy out with water before you rack into your keg to make sure it ends up in a similar position as I've shown.

Install your nifty little filter assembly (their photo):
View attachment 569614

Since this floats, I was not worried in the least about hops clogging the smaller filter off.

The extra bit of work here is you've got to sanitize everything separately. You don't want to be shaking the piss out of your floating dip tube assembly in there. Blast some sanitizer through BOTH disconnects, soak the whole assembly in a vessel of sanitizer, drain the keg, sanitize your hands, and gently place the assembly into the keg, make sure it looks ok and hook the silicone tube up to the trimmed dip tube they've provided. So, sanitize, add your wort, pitch your yeast, dry hop like mad and when she's done, start your transfer:
View attachment 569613

Rest assured, there is next to nothing left for beer in that keg. What poured out after was a very thick slurry of hops / yeast. Awesome!

There you have it. I'm not going to say one is better than the other, they're different and they both work damn well. I will most likely be sticking with the Clear Draught system because I don't like having to remove the post/dip tube every time. YMMV!

Hopefully this helps someone out there. Cheers!

your filter apparatus is not the one janish recommends. he recommends the larger one with the sealed top. i’ve used the autosiphon filter and it clogged a few times. then, it sucks all of the beer out of the inside of the filter and breaks siphon. i want to try the clear draught next. seems like a better choice based on my experience. one caveat is that i haven’t cold crashed before racking. if i did that, the autosiphon screen might be more reliable.

 

[Andre3000]

your filter apparatus is not the one janish recommends. he recommends the larger one with the sealed top. i’ve used the autosiphon filter and it clogged a few times. then, it sucks all of the beer out of the inside of the filter and breaks siphon. i want to try the clear draught next. seems like a better choice based on my experience. one caveat is that i haven’t cold crashed before racking. if i did that, the autosiphon screen might be more reliable.

He's got it captioned "final solution to dry hopping lose" shown. Can you point me to the one you're referring to? Yeah like I mentioned, packing off the filter was a concern of mine but it just didn't happen. Maybe I've been lucky.

Why can't you cold crash before racking with the clear draught assembly?

 

[thekraken]

If you used a Clear Draught System in the FV do you bother using one in the SV as well?

 

[stickyfinger]

He's got it captioned "final solution to dry hopping lose" shown. Can you point me to the one you're referring to? Yeah like I mentioned, packing off the filter was a concern of mine but it just didn't happen. Maybe I've been lucky.

Why can't you cold crash before racking with the clear draught assembly?

ah ok, looks like he has used both of the screens mentioned. i'm sorry for the critique. This link shows both of the styles:

http://scottjanish.com/my-favorite-way-to-dry-hop-loose-in-primary-and-kegs/

you can always cold crash, but i just haven't done it when using the autosiphon filter that janish mentions in a keg. it's a long boring story, but i had to rack from primary after only like 4-5 days and couldn't do a cold crash. that was a disaster with 8 oz of hops using the autosiphon screen. i think it probably would have been a lot better if i had been able to cold crash the keg for 2-5 days and then rack. i need to try that again and see how it works. i don't mind cold crashing at all as long as it is in a keg. i'm a little worried about cold crashing in my carboys now. Ever since I stopped cold crashing in the carboy, I have completely eliminated my diacetyl problem. There's no way for air to get into the keg though if I cold crash in there.

 

[Andre3000]

If you used a Clear Draught System in the FV do you bother using one in the SV as well?

I don't mainly because I have two fermenting kegs and about 8 serving kegs and my main concern is hop debris. Though I have no doubt you would have clear beer faster if you did.

 

[chieftain]

Revisiting an issue discussed upthread - for my last brew I ran a tube from the top of my conical to the serving keg to purge it using fermentation gas. After 5-6 days of fermentation (and presumably a near O2 free keg), I cold crashed but left the tube in place, assuming that it would suck back the C02 in the keg. Is that crazy talk?

I haven't poured my first pint yet, so can't report on how it has turned out.

 

[FunkedOut]

If you’ve got any pressure in the conical headspace and the keg, then the cold crash would result in a drop in pressure.

If you’ve got ambient pressure in those places, you’ll create a vacuum in both places until one of the two is filled with a leak.

If there is no leak, you could fill it with CO2 from a bottle.
Or air by opening one up, defeating your purpose.

 

[LittlejohnBrew]

Gave my first go at this method with a NEIPA and it hasn't gone as well as planned. After about a day into fermentation I realized the gas disconnect on the FV wasn't pushed on all the way and as soon as I pushed it in the SK pressure sky rocketed and both kegs started shaking like crazy. Vented off, but no idea how high the pressure actually got since it maxed out my pressure gauge. I'm sure this was not good for the yeast, but surprisingly there was minimal impact to attenuation as I hit my FG.

About 2-3 points from FG I closed the spunding valve and raised the temp some to finish it out. It got up to about 20 psi. I then connected gas to gas and cold crashed prior to transfer. Checked the pressure earlier and it was 17 psi. It still hasn't reached final carbonation though.

A couple questions I have are.

1. With natural carbing (w/o priming sugar) how do you know you are carbing to the correct volumes of CO2? Right now I am just periodically pulling a sample to taste if it is carbed then once carbed vent CO2 to 10-12 psi.
2. Sounds like based on doug293cz's calcs a water purge isn't necessary on the SK as the fermentation CO2 will push out all the air in the SK?
3. Has anyone tried the following method...Add priming sugar to SK at the beginning of fermentation, do not do a water purge, allow fermentation CO2 to purge SK, after FG is reached transfer from FV to SK, then let priming sugar carbonate?

 

[stickyfinger]

Gave my first go at this method with a NEIPA and it hasn't gone as well as planned. After about a day into fermentation I realized the gas disconnect on the FV wasn't pushed on all the way and as soon as I pushed it in the SK pressure sky rocketed and both kegs started shaking like crazy. Vented off, but no idea how high the pressure actually got since it maxed out my pressure gauge. I'm sure this was not good for the yeast, but surprisingly there was minimal impact to attenuation as I hit my FG.

well, that is definitely an experiment. you just sealed a keg and fermented a batch of beer completely contained! I guess it must not have gotten much higher than 90 PSI?! The kegs are rated for 90 PSI I think, but they can probably go a fair amount higher without exploding as the 90 PSI rating probably has a buffer built into it. Not sure what would explode first though. They very well might contain much higher PSI. I saw a video of opening some kegs that had been sealed up and were under a ton of pressure, and they just blew out a geyser of beer foam sky high. Maybe in the future you could increase the spund valve pressure some to make sure it is going up as fermentation continues? I assume it was just sitting at the same PSI as your SK (if you are using the FV - SK - spund setup outlined by Schematix.)

About 2-3 points from FG I closed the spunding valve and raised the temp some to finish it out. It got up to about 20 psi. I then connected gas to gas and cold crashed prior to transfer. Checked the pressure earlier and it was 17 psi. It still hasn't reached final carbonation though.

I had mine up to like 27 PSI at maybe 70F, and the resulting beer is perfectly carbonated.

A couple questions I have are.

1. With natural carbing (w/o priming sugar) how do you know you are carbing to the correct volumes of CO2? Right now I am just periodically pulling a sample to taste if it is carbed then once carbed vent CO2 to 10-12 psi.

this is also one of my questions. i think ultimately it's not that important if it's perfect. if you don't use priming sugar, then you have to assume the FG, which varies for me most of the time. if you hook up the spunding valve and see if it is over 30 psi, then you can just release some pressure to keep it under 30 PSI if you want the typical 2.5ish volumes of CO2.

1. Sounds like based on doug293cz's calcs a water purge isn't necessary on the SK as the fermentation CO2 will push out all the air in the SK?

it's cheap insurance in case something gets screwed up and you don't purge the SK well enough with the FV, etc. seems like a worthy thing to do even if in some cases it is a waste.

1. Has anyone tried the following method...Add priming sugar to SK at the beginning of fermentation, do not do a water purge, allow fermentation CO2 to purge SK, after FG is reached transfer from FV to SK, then let priming sugar carbonate?

that seems like a good idea if not doing a SK purge! or, you could do a quick SK purge and then use a syringe to squirt in the priming sugar while blowing out CO2 using the gas in. that would be very low O2! Good idea though!

 

[FunkedOut]

1. With natural carbing (w/o priming sugar) how do you know you are carbing to the correct volumes of CO2? Right now I am just periodically pulling a sample to taste if it is carbed then once carbed vent CO2 to 10-12 psi.

You saw that going over 1 bar (15psi) doesn’t mean instant death to all yeast.
Cap the FV a bit early to ensure you don’t miss the boat. And instead of sealing it completely or cranking the spunding valve way up, set the valve to release at the desired carbonation volume. Look up the pressure for desired volume at temperature just like force carbing.

A corny keg should hold 130psi. The safety release valve should release at 90psi.

 

[fragged]

A couple questions I have are.
With natural carbing (w/o priming sugar) how do you know you are carbing to the correct volumes of CO2? Right now I am just periodically pulling a sample to taste if it is carbed then once carbed vent CO2 to 10-12 psi.

Use the last few points to get the pressure to the corresponding volumes if CO2 at your current fermentation temperature. For me, that is typically 25 or so psi at 67 degrees (but check a co2 carbonation chart, my memory is horrid). Once you crash, you'll be at the same volume of co2, at a new pressure (corresponding to the temp; see Gas laws, Boyle's law to be specific I think, but again my memory sucks).

If you miss a little on the volume, it'll be very close and right itself in a couple days on serving pressure, still better than two weeks normally or a "hope for the best" burst carb approach IMO.

This is the same approach as using priming sugar conceptually, just using remaining wort sugars rather than corn.

 

[LittlejohnBrew]

Thanks for the feedback all. So to ensure I understand correctly if you set the pressure to say 30 psi with a couple points left to FG you will have fully carbed beer at FG. Otherwords, the last couple points will produce enough CO2 to raise the head space pressure to 30 psi and all additional CO2 created past that point will stay dissolved? Any excess CO2 production will be purged out spunding valve?

Below is a video of venting the FV keg once I realized it sat as an closed vessel for ~24hrs. Can't be sure if the pressure ever reached high enough to lift the relief valve. I'm pulling the relief on the SK.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qwLR4NK4B7fiuWrN7

 

[stickyfinger]

Thanks for the feedback all. So to ensure I understand correctly if you set the pressure to say 30 psi with a couple points left to FG you will have fully carbed beer at FG. Otherwords, the last couple points will produce enough CO2 to raise the head space pressure to 30 psi and all additional CO2 created past that point will stay dissolved? Any excess CO2 production will be purged out spunding valve?

Below is a video of venting the FV keg once I realized it sat as an closed vessel for ~24hrs. Can't be sure if the pressure ever reached high enough to lift the relief valve. I'm pulling the relief on the SK.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qwLR4NK4B7fiuWrN7

i've only done this closed process and carbonating in the keg a few times now but what i did was just leave it all closed up and let the pressure build. then, each day or every couple days, i'd put on the spunding valve and see what the pressure was up to. i found that it slowly climbed up from like 20 PSI (what i used to seal the lid after priming the keg) to close to 30 PSI by the end.

Isn't it true that if you leave the spunding valve attached (depending on the valve) you could get a fair amount of CO2 bleeding out of the valve (as I've heard that they all leak a little bit.) I think I'd rather just kind of burp it once per day if you have the time unless you really have a lot of points left at the end and need to have it on all of the time.

 

[schematix]

I advocate the seal it up and monitor approach.

Unless you are way off FG you’re gonna be close. Worst case if you find you went above target pressure, attach the spund until it bleeds, then go back to seal and monitor.

You don’t actually need a spund valve to spund, but you do need a pressure gauge and need to know beer temp.

 

[crane]

i've only done this closed process and carbonating in the keg a few times now but what i did was just leave it all closed up and let the pressure build. then, each day or every couple days, i'd put on the spunding valve and see what the pressure was up to. i found that it slowly climbed up from like 20 PSI (what i used to seal the lid after priming the keg) to close to 30 PSI by the end.

Isn't it true that if you leave the spunding valve attached (depending on the valve) you could get a fair amount of CO2 bleeding out of the valve (as I've heard that they all leak a little bit.) I think I'd rather just kind of burp it once per day if you have the time unless you really have a lot of points left at the end and need to have it on all of the time.

No not all PRVs leak. The cheap ones from morebeer can (at least the one I bought does), but the 2 different versions I bought from mcmaster both hold and maintain pressure just fine as CO2 production slows to a halt. FWIW, I connect the spunding valve at the begging of fermentation and leave it connected until I cold crash.

 

[stickyfinger]

No not all PRVs leak. The cheap ones from morebeer can (at least the one I bought does), but the 2 different versions I bought from mcmaster both hold and maintain pressure just fine as CO2 production slows to a halt. FWIW, I connect the spunding valve at the begging of fermentation and leave it connected until I cold crash.

i guess it comes down to whether your spunding valve leaks then. if so, use the seal it up and monitor approach. if not, you can set it and forget it.

 

[LittlejohnBrew]

No not all PRVs leak. The cheap ones from morebeer can (at least the one I bought does), but the 2 different versions I bought from mcmaster both hold and maintain pressure just fine as CO2 production slows to a halt. FWIW, I connect the spunding valve at the begging of fermentation and leave it connected until I cold crash.

My first spunding valve was nearly identical to the morebeer version. Bought it at my LHBS for less than half the price they were listed online. Thought I was getting a steal until I used it and found out it was crap.

I ended up getting an "adjustable tire deflator" from a friend and from initial tests it appears to have a much tighter seal and better ability to adjust set pressure. This setup requires a 1/4" MNPT male tank valve though since the spunding valve has a shrader end. Design is definitely better than the morebeer which is just simply a spring with floating disc. This design has an o-ring on the disc that presses into the seat. The disc is attached to a shaft guided by the bore of the valve body and the end cap. Looking forward to putting it to the test of the next brew day.

 

[schematix]

I have 3 mcmaster relief valves and all 3 will continue to drop pressure. It's a very slow leak but if you leave it on a lager for a week while it lagers, you'll have an under carbonated beer.

It does seem to be something people report a lot of difference experiences with. I've heard many people who praise and admonish all of them.

 

[derekcw83]

Why can't you dry hop in the SK? I figure to add hops in a bag or ss container into serving keg early in fermentation, purged with co2 to preserve them, and they're flushed with co2 the whole way till beer is transferred onto them. Hopefully no longer than a week or 2 in the sk prior to beer being transferred

 

[thekraken]

Will the flow of co2 carry away any of the hop's aromatic goodness?

Do you plan to remove the dry hops at a later date? If so you would be exposing the beer in the SK to oxygen when you remove the hops without the protection of still active yeast to scrub out the o2 introduced from opening the keg.

 

[derekcw83]

Will the flow of co2 carry away any of the hop's aromatic goodness?

Do you plan to remove the dry hops at a later date? If so you would be exposing the beer in the SK to oxygen when you remove the hops without the protection of still active yeast to scrub out the o2 introduced from opening the keg.

I plan to keep them n the sk

 

[jpb2716]

Hello all. I've read this entire thread numerous times, purchased parts and built a spunding valve and purchased lids with welded thermowells from Jaybird but yet I'm still hesitating to give this a try for some reason. I'm sure that I'm making this more difficult than it should be.

I plan to give it a go early next week. I'm going to apologize in advance for any stupid questions I may ask in the next few days.

First question...I'm going to be brewing an IPA that I've brewed numerous other times. I will typically double dry hop this beer. First addition is added on day two of fermentation and one is added towards the end of fermentation. Since the objective of this brewing method is to limit oxygen exposure, is it recommended that I add all dry hops towards the beginning of fermentation so I don't have to open the fermentation keg more than once?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Hannabrew]

There are many ways to do this but my current method is to dryhop 24 to 48 hours in and then again when I spund to the serving vessel. Since there is still activity, any oxygen intake should be expunged

 

[schematix]

Since the objective of this brewing method is to limit oxygen exposure, is it recommended that I add all dry hops towards the beginning of fermentation so I don't have to open the fermentation keg more than once?

In general your best protection against O2 is active fermentation, so you'll need to limit your dry hopping to those times. I wouldn't do it with less than 6-10 points to go.... so think 1.020-1.030 for your average IPA.

What i do for dry hopping is open the lid, attach a hose clamp with a piece of tubing (i think i took a 1/2" slice of double walled gas tubing then slit it) to the thermowell. Then use nylon fishing line to tie a hop bag on. After this i put the lid back on. For the next few hours you must blow off all the gas. DO NOT use it to flush the SKs or you will be introducing dirty air into them.

 

[jpb2716]

There are many ways to do this but my current method is to dryhop 24 to 48 hours in and then again when I spund to the serving vessel. Since there is still activity, any oxygen intake should be expunged

In general your best protection against O2 is active fermentation, so you'll need to limit your dry hopping to those times. I wouldn't do it with less than 6-10 points to go.... so think 1.020-1.030 for your average IPA.

What i do for dry hopping is open the lid, attach a hose clamp with a piece of tubing (i think i took a 1/2" slice of double walled gas tubing then slit it) to the thermowell. Then use nylon fishing line to tie a hop bag on. After this i put the lid back on. For the next few hours you must blow off all the gas. DO NOT use it to flush the SKs or you will be introducing dirty air into them.

Thanks for the responses guys. I appreciate the help.

I was planning on hooking up a blowoff tube until after high krausen, then remove and start spunding the serving keg. If you have a better recommendation with the timing of that, please let me know.

I think what is causing me the most apprehension is knowing exactly when to transfer to the serving keg. Is it wrong of me to just allow fermentation to complete, add a priming solution through the prv with a syringe and transfer once fermentation starts again?

Thanks again.

 

[schematix]

I think what is causing me the most apprehension is knowing exactly when to transfer to the serving keg. Is it wrong of me to just allow fermentation to complete, add a priming solution through the prv with a syringe and transfer once fermentation starts again?

Thanks again.

You could do that. Spunding is best from oxygen exclusion perspective though. If you do add priming sugar just make sure you do it as soon as it hits final gravity. Otherwise you’ll start to get ingress to the fermenter.

The best way to know to transfer is to monitor the gravity.