Pressurized Closed Loop Corny Keg Fermenting

[schematix]

I wrote this up for a fellow HBT'er who asked me about it after I responded to a post. Others have asked me about it too so I figured i'd post it in its entirety so I can link to it here.

Some of this might be redundant to other threads, and I don't claim any of these ideas to be novel or invented by me, but I think its a complete collection of processes to execute a pressurized fermentation with a closed loop transfer to the serving keg, that goes the extra mile to reduce oxygen ingress. I have had outstanding success with this technique. It is also fairly cost effective when you think about how inexpensive corny kegs are, even brand new.

This is essentially the LoDO method described in the divisive PDF. You can still use this method post-fermentation without practicing any of the hot-side LoDO process and will see an improvement in your kegged beers.



Figure 1: 3x5G of Bock Fermenting. Left 3 kegs are Fermentation Vessels. Right 3 kegs are water purged Serving Kegs being additionally purged by the fermentation gases.
 
The 3 FV kegs have custom made lids with welded in thermowell made by @Jaybird. See this thread.


Step 1: Turn 2 standard corny kegs into 1 of each a Fermentation Vesssel (FV) and Serving Keg (SK).


Figure 2: Converting standard keg to FV and SK


A. To make the FV first you need to bend the liquid dip tube to reach the side wall of the keg. This should put you about an inch off the bottom so you'll avoid all the yeast. If in doubt bend a little more and if you're leaving too much beer, then bend it further back. You may have to dial this in a little over a few batches.
Stainless tubing is hard to bend but you can do it with a vice and some force. Just spread your bend out over several inches and don’t put it all in 1 kink.

B. For both an SK and FV you want to cut the GAS dip tube flush with the inside of the keg. This equates to removing approx 1/2" of the dip tube. Keg models vary though so you’ll need to measure for yourself. Better to go a little too short than too long though.
This is very important for the SK because it’s going to allow you to do a complete water purge. In the FV it’s important because it gives you additional head space, which means less blow off, and more beer into the SK when you rack. The gas dip tube is nothing more than an o-ring holder.
Since I have so many kegs and didn’t own the right tools, I paid a shop to cut them for me. I’ve heard others suggest a dremel tool with the piece in a vice, or even a hack saw with the right blade (don’t want it embedding iron shavings into stainless).



Figure 3: Shortened gas dip tubes


Step 2: Water purge the SK

This is easier than it sounds and way more important than it seems. A standard keg has a huge pocket of air in the lid (several times more than will oxidize a beer). I do this a day or two ahead of time.

A. Clean the SK with PBW or whatever.
B. Fill the SK to the brim with water (Starsan is optional), then install the lid with PRV closed. Install a gas disconnect to the gas side, and liquid disconnect to the liquid side. The liquid side should be connected to a water source. I built a jumper hose (Figure 4) with the keg QD on one end and a camlock QD on the other end so it’s easy for my system.


Figure 4: Water supply to keg liquid post jumper


C. Tilt the SK to a 45 degree angle with the gas port on the top. Slowly fill the remaining portion of the keg with water until it starts squirting out the gas disconnect. It’ll take a few second before water comes out. Rock the keg around a few more times to ensure all the bubbles are out. Simultaneously pull off the liquid and gas QD. You now have a keg 99.99% full of water.

D. Use commercial CO2 at 10 psi to push all the water out of the liquid dip tube. You now have a keg 99.98% full of CO2 at 10 psi and a few drops of water at the bottom.


Step 3: Fermentation


Figure 5: Fermentation hose diagram

The idea of this set up is that you use all of the fermentation gas to continue to purge the serving keg. Also the SK will act to catch any blow off, protecting the spund valve from getting gunked up.

Don't have a spund valve? Try these threads. I'd recommend a 30 psi gauge. There are at least 3 different inexpensive pressure relief valves out there, and just know that all of them will slowly leak, so once fermentation ramps down you need to disconnect them and keep the keg sealed. You want to occasionally connect them to bleed off the excess pressure though.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=245337
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=317333
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=579308
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=130237

A. Sanitize FV immediately prior to use and fill with chilled wort. Pitch yeast, oxygenate and install lid... note you've just filled the head space of the FV with oxygen and air.

B. Wait at least 4 hours for the yeast to consume the oxygen you've introduced. If you don't do this you'll mix the oxygen+air mixture back into the SK in the next step and your water purge results will be significantly impacted. I also like to CO2 purge the FV head space 3 times.

C. Attach jumper between the FV gas port and SK liquid port. Since the SK was pressurized when you purge it, this will pressurize the FV (some backflow may occur but don’t worry). You need this pressure to keep the lid sealed. Set spunding valve to target pressure.
I like about 3.5 psi, but you could experiment here. I’ve seen some some people report 15-25 psi.


Figure 6: Gas to Liquid Jumper used fermentation

Bonus: The added head pressure collapses the kraussen bubbles. My lager fermentations max at 1cm of kraussen, meaning i can nearly fill the keg to capacity. I fill the FV just past the top weld with wort.

If the recipe calls for dry hops I add them to the keg in a suspended nylon bag (or equivalent) with 4-6 SG points remaining. This is to scavenge any oxygen introduced by the dry hops. A few days later the beer will be at FG and the dry hops will have given their all. During this time pressure is maintained to minize loss of aromas as the last of the fermentation gasses escape.

Since there are no remaining fermentable sugars to naturally carbonate, add a priming liquid solution into the FV through the PRV hole with a funnel and wait until fermentation restarts (~1 hour). Then rack via the process below.

If the beer reached FG before it could be racked, follow this process of adding priming sugar as well. It has been demonstrated by others that the oxygen uptake from transfer will be minimized by having active yeast.

 
Step 4: Racking


Figure 7: Racking hose diagram

This is perhaps one of the best features of fermenting in kegs with this method and eliminates the need for a racking cane or external pressure. With a few gravity points to go (4-6 ideally, less if you fermented under higher pressure), it’s time to rack. You want to transfer at the tail end of active fermentation so the yeast will consume any stray oxygen picked up in transfer.

A. Purge the hoses you use in this step with gas saved in the SK (attach, use your finger or screwdriver to push the poppet). You could also purge with canister CO2 but I find it hard to connect the liquid-liquid jumper to that.

B. Elevate the FV above the SK. Connect the 2 liquid ports together. If you used the SK to purge the hoses you now have lower pressure in that keg relative to the FV. Flow will probably start on its own, but if it doesn’t, pull the PRV slightly on the SK until beer will start to flow. Then connect the gas sides together to equalize the head pressure.

C. Set timer for 30 minutes and walk away (or watch anxiously).

D. When you return you'll have the SK completely full and the FV empty. At this point i usually disconnect everything, and then top the pressure off in the kegs to ~5 psi to ensure a good lid seal. Then back to wherever to finish the last few points and naturally carbonate.

In Step D I also do a sanity check to make sure there weren’t any leaks that caused the transfer to stop. I’ve had that happen and didn’t realize it.

 

[schematix]

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[DaWhip]

Good Post! I like the idea of having a thread just for the corny fermenters. I follow a pretty similar practice as your post above, but I have not modified any of kegs. I haven't had any problems with the long dip tubes, I just have to dump the first bit that comes out of the lines, usually under 100mL. I recently expanded the system (After the pic) to accommodate 10 gallon batches with both fermenters in the freezer and the serving kegs outside. I can also daisy chain a bunch of kegs together to have all of my kegs purged. This pic is just of my giant airlock/gas collection system. I do full 5 gallons in keg and with fermcap and at least 5psi I have never had any blowoff in the tubes. My transfers are almost exactly as you described with and done with a jumper so I don't have to clean this contraption.

 

[stpug]

Thanks for the detailed write-up @schematix, this should prove useful for many folks (myself included ).

 

[thekraken]

Subbed. How do you dry hop, if you do?

 

[schematix]

Subbed. How do you dry hop, if you do?

That's a good question, one i answered earlier today on another thread. I edited the first post, but here it is anyways:

If the recipe calls for dry hops I add them to the keg in a suspended nylon bag (or equivalent) with 4-6 SG points remaining. This is to scavenge any oxygen introduced by the dry hops. A few days later the beer will be at FG and the dry hops will have given their all. During this time pressure is maintained to minize loss of aromas as the last of the fermentation gasses escape.

Since there are no remaining fermentable sugars to naturally carbonate, add a priming liquid solution into the FV through the PRV hole with a funnel and wait until fermentation restarts (~1 hour). Then rack via the process below.

If the beer reached FG before it could be racked, follow this process of adding priming sugar as well. It has been demonstrated by others that the oxygen uptake from transfer will be minimized by having active yeast.

 

[arnobg]

Great article but can you help a noob out and add some information on the spund valve? Either I'm blind or you only mention of it once! Someone that has never heard of keg fermenting might look at this and not even realize you have something like that as part of the setup which is pretty important!

 

[schematix]

Great article but can you help a noob out and add some information on the spund valve? Either I'm blind or you only mention of it once!

For now i'm going to leave it out of this thread since it is covered very well in many, many others... but i will find and post a link to the threads i used for inspiration.

 

[Anyhowe]

This has been my setup for a while. It works great. I add to the simplicity I brew into the fermenting keg with the Zymatic and then store my kegs in a 38 degree keezer with temperature controlled heat wraps for the beers fermenting. I just remove the wraps to cold crash, add Gelatin, then pressure transfer to serving keg and carbonate. If I wanted I could serve right from there. I never have to move the kegs from fermenting to serving unless I choose. I brew 2.5 gallon batches with a built in spunding valve set to about 5-6 psi. No blowoff problems mess tondeal with using this volume. In the end I use the same keg to brew and ferment and 1 to serve from. The beer never sees the light of day (other than dry hop or gelatin) til it hits my glass. Its simple, no tiers for racking or ever having to move carboys or kegs. It also makes it simple and easy to purge with co2. I have 1 regulator set to 4 -5 psi for transfer and one set to 10 for carbing.

 

[schematix]

This has been my setup for a while.

They are similar but this is a little bit different. The racking is done without external pressure applied. This does require an elevation difference to keep the siphon going. The siphon is started via a clever trick since the kegs are both pressurized by the fermentation gases. All one has to do is create a differential and flow will start.

There are also key additional steps described for reducing oxygen uptake into the serving keg.

 

[thekraken]

This seems like a basic question but what size lines are you using? IF you were to get blowoff what's the likelyhood of blowoff plugging it up?

 

[schematix]

This seems like a basic question but what size lines are you using? IF you were to get blowoff what's the likelyhood of blowoff plugging it up?

I've never had more than a few drops of blow off. I'll have to check on the line sizes.

 

[Anyhowe]

They are similar but this is a little bit different. The racking is done without external pressure applied. This does require an elevation difference to keep the siphon going. The siphon is started via a clever trick since the kegs are both pressurized by the fermentation gases. All one has to do is create a differential and flow will start.

There are also key additional steps described for reducing oxygen uptake into the serving keg.

Agreed. Your method is well thought out and cool, I just find co2 cheap and a much more simple and easier setup. Ymmv. The 5 #er lasts nearly forever as all I do is transfer and force carb.

Thanks for your detailed post. I like cool setups. No critisim implied with my posts, I just wanted folks to know that your pressure/corney concept is sound and used by others in a variety of ways.

 

[schematix]

Agreed. Your method is well thought out and cool, I just find co2 cheap and a much more simple and easier setup. Ymmv. The 5 #er lasts nearly forever as all I do is transfer and force carb.

To be clear I'm not dissing your process at all. I used to do something similar for a while. There are certainly easier ways to keg, but to exclude oxygen to this extent requires a lot of attention to detail, and that's what this thread is really about.

I just wanted to be clear for others who are reading this, and those I am likely to point here in the future, that this how you do LoDO kegging (there, i said it).

 

[Anyhowe]

LoDo kegging. Love it. Time for a copyright.

 

[PartagasD4]

Set spunding valve to target pressure.
I like about 3.5 psi, but you could experiment here. I’ve seen some some people report 15-25 psi.

Has anyone ever used Wyeast 1318 with this keg FV spunding method ? I am using this yeast right now and have another 8 pounds of hops to use from last year on some more IPA's
I have everything built and ready to pressure ferment in a keg but was concerned that 3.5 PSI might not keep the 1318 krausen down.
I don't want to pressure to high and lose any esters this yeast produces
Any thoughts??

 

[schematix]

Has anyone ever used Wyeast 1318 with this keg FV spunding method ? I am using this yeast right now and have another 8 pounds of hops to use from last year on some more IPA's
I have everything built and ready to pressure ferment in a keg but was concerned that 3.5 PSI might not keep the 1318 krausen down.
I don't want to pressure to high and lose any esters this yeast produces
Any thoughts??

I'd just do it... 3.5 psi is very little really. 2' of feet beer in a tank will give you about 1 psi at the bottom.

 

[hio3791]

Thank you Schematix for the great post. I've been trying to figure out how to do closed transfers.

Questions...

1. Do you do this for all styles or do certain styles benefit most (ie., IPAs) and for other styles it's just overkill?
2a. How are you taking gravity readings (or dry hopping) in the FV? Do you first disconnect the hoses so the pressurized SK doesn't empty itself into the FV?
2b. Wouldn't you introduce a lot of oxygen each time you do that (which may not get fully scrubbed by remaining active yeast)?
2c. Wouldn't you lose quite a bit of CO2 from the SK, each time you do this, as the kegs rebalance?
3. I ferment in buckets and I can never predict how much trub and yeast will be at the bottom. Sometimes, it's an inch, sometimes it's more than than 3 inches (BIAB so there's more sediment going into the fermenter). For that reason, I aim for 5.25g to 5.5g in the fermenter. Does pressurized fermentation compact the sediment more or should I be targeting 4.75g in the FV? Otherwise, it's going to be a challenge for me to get the dip tube bend correctly.
4. I have a spare 7.25g (tall) pony keg. I could use it as the FV. If I could figure out how to connect it to a corny keg as the SK and follow your steps, that might work better for me. Have you come across anyone doing something like that (as you researched and built your design)?

They'll probably be more questions but that's a start!

Thank you!

 

[thekraken]

Thank you Schematix for the great post. I've been trying to figure out how to do closed transfers.

Questions...

1. Do you do this for all styles or do certain styles benefit most (ie., IPAs) and for other styles it's just overkill?
2a. How are you taking gravity readings (or dry hopping) in the FV? Do you first disconnect the hoses so the pressurized SK doesn't empty itself into the FV?
2b. Wouldn't you introduce a lot of oxygen each time you do that (which may not get fully scrubbed by remaining active yeast)?
2c. Wouldn't you lose quite a bit of CO2 from the SK, each time you do this, as the kegs rebalance?
3. I ferment in buckets and I can never predict how much trub and yeast will be at the bottom. Sometimes, it's an inch, sometimes it's more than than 3 inches (BIAB so there's more sediment going into the fermenter). For that reason, I aim for 5.25g to 5.5g in the fermenter. Does pressurized fermentation compact the sediment more or should I be targeting 4.75g in the FV? Otherwise, it's going to be a challenge for me to get the dip tube bend correctly.
4. I have a spare 7.25g (tall) pony keg. I could use it as the FV. If I could figure out how to connect it to a corny keg as the SK and follow your steps, that might work better for me. Have you come across anyone doing something like that (as you researched and built your design)?

They'll probably be more questions but that's a start!

Thank you!

As far as #4 you might be interested in this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=44344 . It all started with sankes

 

[schematix]

1. Do you do this for all styles or do certain styles benefit most (ie., IPAs) and for other styles it's just overkill?

I've done quite a few lagers, but also a mega IPA and an out stout. I've found just as much improvement in the ales as in the lagers. I plan to do this for all my brews going forward.

2a. How are you taking gravity readings (or dry hopping) in the FV? Do you first disconnect the hoses so the pressurized SK doesn't empty itself into the FV?
2b. Wouldn't you introduce a lot of oxygen each time you do that (which may not get fully scrubbed by remaining active yeast)?
2c. Wouldn't you lose quite a bit of CO2 from the SK, each time you do this, as the kegs rebalance?

I made a special tap for this and take the sample right from the liquid dip tube on the FV. The apparatus is just a liquid QD with 8" of beer line and cobra tap. Sometimes there is a little sputter of back flow from the SK to the FV but it's minimal. I'll update the main post this weekend with a picture and details.

3. I ferment in buckets and I can never predict how much trub and yeast will be at the bottom. Sometimes, it's an inch, sometimes it's more than than 3 inches (BIAB so there's more sediment going into the fermenter). For that reason, I aim for 5.25g to 5.5g in the fermenter. Does pressurized fermentation compact the sediment more or should I be targeting 4.75g in the FV? Otherwise, it's going to be a challenge for me to get the dip tube bend correctly.

I get pretty clear wort into the fermenter. The key is to chill, whirlpool, and let it settle for about 30 minutes (patience will be rewarded). Then rack without picking up the trub. I've seen an alternate method that dumps the whole kettle into a special bucket just used to let the trub settle out and then clear beer is racked. You don't want too much sludge (especially hops) in your FV because you can plug the keg poppets.

4. I have a spare 7.25g (tall) pony keg. I could use it as the FV. If I could figure out how to connect it to a corny keg as the SK and follow your steps, that might work better for me. Have you come across anyone doing something like that (as you researched and built your design)?

There is a thread around here by Jaybird from Nor Cal brewing. He makes a number of custom fittings for that type of keg that could be used i think. Probably cheaper to just buy a corny keg though....

 

[DaWhip]

Thank you Schematix for the great post. I've been trying to figure out how to do closed transfers.

Questions...

Offering my experience with a slightly different process.

1. Do you do this for all styles or do certain styles benefit most (ie., IPAs) and for other styles it's just overkill?

I use pressure fermentation for all styles now because I like having beer carbed as soon as fermentation is complete and cleaning the cornys is a breeze. You may have to tweak temps up to get appropriate flavors for some styles, but that just means you get a faster fermentation too, win win. It's a learning process with the temps since you have a lot more flexibility.

2a. How are you taking gravity readings (or dry hopping) in the FV? Do you first disconnect the hoses so the pressurized SK doesn't empty itself into the FV?

Same as a lot of others for sampling. I use a 1' picnic tap to take samples. Super easy. The only downside is that once the beer is carbed you get a lot of head. For my graduated cylinder I need 200mL to take a hydrometer sample, so I sample into a large mason jar to contain the head and let it sit for 15 minutes or so to let some CO2 out, then pour into my grad cylinder. Before that donned on my I was sampling straight into graduated cylinder and it took a while to get get a big enough sample since I had to let the head go away several times to get it full enough. For dry hopping I put my hops in a hop bag and add them to the serving keg and purge before I rack over. I leave dry hops in serving keg unless I think it will be something that lasts more than a month.

2b. Wouldn't you introduce a lot of oxygen each time you do that (which may not get fully scrubbed by remaining active yeast)?

As described above, no O2 introduced. Another method I use for some late additions (gelatin, bourbon, hop tea) is to put the addition in a 1L soda bottle topped with a carbacap. I purge the soda bottle and over pressurize it (double whatever the ferm keg pressure is), then run a jumper from the gas post to the carbacap. The extra pressure will push all of the addition into the keg without opening anything.

2c. Wouldn't you lose quite a bit of CO2 from the SK, each time you do this, as the kegs rebalance?

Nope. Minimal and not noticable. Fermentation produces a LOT of CO2. I can probably get 2 or 3 kegs to 30 PSI if I was really trying.

3. I ferment in buckets and I can never predict how much trub and yeast will be at the bottom. Sometimes, it's an inch, sometimes it's more than than 3 inches (BIAB so there's more sediment going into the fermenter). For that reason, I aim for 5.25g to 5.5g in the fermenter. Does pressurized fermentation compact the sediment more or should I be targeting 4.75g in the FV? Otherwise, it's going to be a challenge for me to get the dip tube bend correctly.

I have had a lot of trub a few times with no issues and no modifications to my dip tube, but it was not intentional and I avoid excess trub as much as I can. I have a large funnel that fits into the mouth of the keg and I line it with a fine filter bag and run from my kettle, through the filter, into the keg and that works well for me. That is in conjunction with whilfloc and putting all my boil hops in a hop bag. You will have to adjust batch size for a 5 gal corny, maybe not if you are using a bigger sanke. I put 5 gallons in mine, which leaves about an inch of headspace and I use fermcap to prevent blowoff (which I have not experienced yet with this method) and set my spund to ~7psi. The system starts with no pressure, but I usually have a couple pounds built up before high krausen which also helps prevent the blowoff.

 

[schematix]

Same as a lot of others for sampling. I use a 1' picnic tap to take samples. Super easy. The only downside is that once the beer is carbed you get a lot of head. For my graduated cylinder I need 200mL to take a hydrometer sample, so I sample into a large mason jar to contain the head and let it sit for 15 minutes or so to let some CO2 out, then pour into my grad cylinder. Before that donned on my I was sampling straight into graduated cylinder and it took a while to get get a big enough sample since I had to let the head go away several times to get it full enough. For dry hopping I put my hops in a hop bag and add them to the serving keg and purge before I rack over. I leave dry hops in serving keg unless I think it will be something that lasts more than a month.

I pull my sample into a flat bottomed beaker (which conveniently has volume marks) and throw it on the stir plate with a drop of ferm cap. I run it usually for 15-30 minutes and it's usually defoamed well enough to to pour into the hydrometer tube without foaming up and a sample can be taken immediately.

I have not dry hopped on the SK yet and for a variety of reasons, am not likely to ever attempt.

 

[hio3791]

Thanks Schematix and DaWhip!

I was curious if there was a way to use gelatin as I like clarifying my beers.

I'll check out the threads mentioned.
Thanks again!

 

[DaWhip]

I pull my sample into a flat bottomed beaker (which conveniently has volume marks) and throw it on the stir plate with a drop of ferm cap. I run it usually for 15-30 minutes and it's usually defoamed well enough to to pour into the hydrometer tube without foaming up and a sample can be taken immediately.

I have not dry hopped on the SK yet and for a variety of reasons, am not likely to ever attempt.

Good idea on the stir plate. I have a vacuum sealer attachment for my mason jars and that also works well for pulling the CO2 out if I am in a hurry to get the sample, but I usually just pull it and let it sit for a while and get back to it later. I'm going to give the fermcap a try tonight. Great idea.

 

[raysmithtx]

I wrote this up for a fellow HBT'er who asked me about it after I responded to a post. Others have asked me about it too so I figured i'd post it in its entirety so I can link to it here.

It looks like you have a couple of corny lids with built in thermowells. Mind telling me where you bought those?

 

[schematix]

It looks like you have a couple of corny lids with built in thermowells. Mind telling me where you bought those?

Custom made by @Jaybird. Searched for a long time to find such a thing but couldn't find them anywhere.

Inspired by this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=582539

 

[raysmithtx]

Inspired by this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=582539

Thanks. I have replied to that thread.

 

[PartagasD4]

I am doing my first spunding as of 2 days ago. It seems to be going well. I am trying to keep it around 5 PSI. I was a little nervous my first time so I
added baby gas drops (simethicone) to try to keep the krausen down on this Wyeast 1318, I don't want any poppets clogging.


I have to get my brewpi beer probe in a thermowell, right now it is taped underneath some foam on the side of the corny. My heater and freezer are cycling way to much.

As soon as this batch is done I am going to drill a hole in the lid and use a tight fitting grommet with my 12" thermowell. Does anyone have any ideas on how much pressure that lid could withstand with that kind of setup?
Or would that be a waste of time? Even if I could get 10 PSI safely I would be happy.

 

[schematix]

I am doing my first spunding as of 2 days ago. It seems to be going well. I am trying to keep it around 5 PSI. I was a little nervous my first time so I
added baby gas drops (simethicone) to try to keep the krausen down on this Wyeast 1318, I don't want any poppets clogging.


I have to get my brewpi beer probe in a thermowell, right now it is taped underneath some foam on the side of the corny. My heater and freezer are cycling way to much.

As soon as this batch is done I am going to drill a hole in the lid and use a tight fitting grommet with my 12" thermowell. Does anyone have any ideas on how much pressure that lid could withstand with that kind of setup?
Or would that be a waste of time? Even if I could get 10 PSI safely I would be happy.

Looks great!

I doubt 10 psi would pose any trouble for a fitting. I think most of those will handle several hundred psi before they risk failing.

 

[PartagasD4]

Well I woke up this morning to a clogged gas out line. What a mess trying to fix things. 1318 is a beast when fermenting and is a top cropping strain. Seems like it was definitely not a smart idea starting out with this yeast. Live and learn.
7 PSI and 10 drops of baby anti-gas was pretty much useless.

 

[schematix]

Well I woke up this morning to a clogged gas out line. What a mess trying to fix things. 1318 is a beast when fermenting and is a top cropping strain. Seems like it was definitely not a smart idea starting out with this yeast. Live and learn.
7 PSI and 10 drops of baby anti-gas was pretty much useless.

Good experience to share.

1. I haven't used 1318 before.... is that known for a large kraussen?
2. What temperature are you fermenting at? How are you measuring/controlling it?
3. Did you use shortened gas dip tubes?
4. How full was your keg? I think the top weld is fairly consistent across kegs so it's a good reference point. Was your wort above or below, and by how much?

I can't rule it out that it may be necessary to use a blow off tube in certain circumstances, before switching to the keg purging/pressurized ferment.

 

[raysmithtx]

Well I woke up this morning to a clogged gas out line. What a mess trying to fix things. 1318 is a beast when fermenting and is a top cropping strain. Seems like it was definitely not a smart idea starting out with this yeast. Live and learn.
7 PSI and 10 drops of baby anti-gas was pretty much useless.

Will the baby anti-gas (simethicone) cause problems with head retention/formation?

 

[schematix]

Will the baby anti-gas (simethicone) cause problems with head retention/formation?

No it settles out. I've been using it for years in the boil and in the ferm and i get killer head.

 

[thekraken]

ipe:

 

[PartagasD4]

The baby drops work great with the 1318 in the starter. 1-2 drops and no krausen. I use a stir plate and I got tired of cleaning up the mess in the morning.

 

[raysmithtx]

No it settles out. I've been using it for years in the boil and in the ferm and i get killer head.

Good to know. I've always used it in the boil but never in the fermentation. As soon as my corny lids with the thermowells installed arrive I will be doing my first batch using the closed loop.

 

[PartagasD4]

Good experience to share.

1. I haven't used 1318 before.... is that known for a large kraussen?
2. What temperature are you fermenting at? How are you measuring/controlling it?
3. Did you use shortened gas dip tubes?
4. How full was your keg? I think the top weld is fairly consistent across kegs so it's a good reference point. Was your wort above or below, and by how much?

I can't rule it out that it may be necessary to use a blow off tube in certain circumstances, before switching to the keg purging/pressurized ferment.

1. 1318 is as bad or worse than any yeast I have used, the krausen never seems to go away either. That is why in an earlier post I asked if someone tried using it so I didn't have to be the guinea pig

2. I am fermenting at 65. I have a brewpi setup I built and can maintain temps extremely well.

3. I shortened the gas tube so it was actually up inside the gas outlet by about 1/8 inch

4. And yes this is were I probably should have used better thought, I filled to the seam. At least I was smart enough to use a rag while relieving pressure , still made a small mess.
While I was removing and cleaning the lid and gas post/poppet I needed to constantly spoon out the overflowing keg, that was fun.

As of right now I went ahead and added the dry hops, its day 3. I let the pressure build to 12 PSI and seems to be at least working for now.
No yeast in gas lines so far.

This is my Brewpi setup, it definitely could look prettier but it is the best thing I ever did to my fermentation.

 

[schematix]

As of right now I went ahead and added the dry hops, its day 3. I let the pressure build to 12 PSI and seems to be at least working for now.
No yeast in gas lines so far.

Thanks for taking one for the team!

I've done a couple ales, both with 1450, and the blow off was minimal. I got a few drops of liquid into the hose between the kegs, but no crud. When i took the kegs apart to clean them though it was obvious the whole head space filled with kraussen. I'm not sure what is keeping my kraussen from getting out of the keg though. With lagers i've had no more than 1cm (i normally use WL835).

A potential solution i've seen is to take the post, poppet and dip tube out entirely and attach a 1/2" blow off tube (need to verify size but that's approx correct) around the threads. After a few days when things calm down then you put the post back in and build some pressure.

As far as the dry hopping i don't go by time, i go by gravity. I think its best with like 2-6 points remaining so you have enough extract remaining to scrub O2 out, but also not so much that you need to vent (in fact at this stage i usually remove the spund and just monitor pressure twice a day). All that gas you're venting is full of hop aromas that are best kept inside the keg!

Make sure to calculate priming sugar based on the current temp/pressure. You probably have >50% of the carbonation you need so a couple oz of sugar will be sufficient to finish the carbonation.

 

[thekraken]

Don't have a spund valve? Try these threads. I'd recommend a 30 psi gauge. There are at least 3 different inexpensive pressure relief valves out there, and just know that all of them will slowly leak, so once fermentation ramps down you need to disconnect them and keep the keg sealed. You want to occasionally connect them to bleed off the excess pressure though.

Just to clarify, ALL prv will slowly leak or just the 3 cheap ones you were referring to? I see in your picture you're using the relatively expensive PRV from McMaster Carr.

The reason I ask is I have the same valve in your picture, I've been pressure testing my setup the past day or so and have about a 8 psi/day leak somewhere... Not that it matters much if the yeast are churning away.

Can you be more specific about when fermentation is ramped down enough for you to disconnect the PRV and how often you manually relieve the pressure after you've disconnected them? Do you still keep a pressure gauge on? Maybe just an inline shut off valve between the tee fitting and the PRV would be convenient here.

 

[PartagasD4]

I personally have tried all 3 that I have seen recommended on many different websites. They all leak, the McMaster Carr prv leaks the slowest. If you notice I have a shutoff valve on mine because of this.

And schematix thanks for the help, I think I will try either 4 or 4.5 gallon batches next time I use this yeast.