Pressurized Closed Loop Corny Keg Fermenting

[Sadu]

Sweet rig @schematix
Gotta say I'm pretty happy with corny keg fermentors but I'd switch to that if I could.

Question for you though. You are always talking about transferring with a few points to go so the yeast are active and can mop up O2. I don't typically do this, I like to crash cool a few days after FG then closed transfer to the serving keg on my schedule. I feel this results in cleaner beer, and I like the idea of giving yeast more time in primary.

What possible avenues are there for oxidation if...
- I'm transferring mostly-carbed beer from a pressurised fermenting keg
- The serving keg has been properly purged (quality starsan purge then spunded from the fermentation)
- Both lines have been purged prior to transfer (blowing CO2 from the tank through for several seconds)
- I also fill my kegs until there is beer coming out the gas line and PRV, then I pour a pint to celebrate and that provides headspace necessary for finishing the carbonation.

Appreciate you know your stuff in this area, so I'd like to ask your opinion on skipping the 'transfer with a few points left' part if everything else is properly in order. It's not a huge deal to add a couple of oz of sugar solution at transfer time but it's one more step and I'm not sure why it would be necessary. Cheers.

 

[schematix]

Sweet rig @schematix
Gotta say I'm pretty happy with corny keg fermentors but I'd switch to that if I could.

Question for you though. You are always talking about transferring with a few points to go so the yeast are active and can mop up O2. I don't typically do this, I like to crash cool a few days after FG then closed transfer to the serving keg on my schedule. I feel this results in cleaner beer, and I like the idea of giving yeast more time in primary.

What possible avenues are there for oxidation if...
- I'm transferring mostly-carbed beer from a pressurised fermenting keg
- The serving keg has been properly purged (quality starsan purge then spunded from the fermentation)
- Both lines have been purged prior to transfer (blowing CO2 from the tank through for several seconds)
- I also fill my kegs until there is beer coming out the gas line and PRV, then I pour a pint to celebrate and that provides headspace necessary for finishing the carbonation.

Appreciate you know your stuff in this area, so I'd like to ask your opinion on skipping the 'transfer with a few points left' part if everything else is properly in order. It's not a huge deal to add a couple of oz of sugar solution at transfer time but it's one more step and I'm not sure why it would be necessary. Cheers.

I am not aware of an easier method than transferring with extract remaining.

If clarity is the concern then there are some solutions involving floating dip tubes.

As far as more time in primary, that is something i try to avoid entirely. I get it out as soon as possible.

 

[cheesebach]

I'm serving from the primary with an NEIPA I just did. It's been in the kegerator for about a week now. It tastes amazing. I love the CBDS! One interesting thing of note is that the pours are quite clear, much clearer than I would expect from an NEIPA at this point. I guess the yeast and hop particles have dropped below the level of the CBDS intake. I've never had an IPA with so much pungent hop flavor that is so clear. The clarity is equivalent to a very hazy west coast IPA or maybe a slightly warmed up Alchemist IPA. I used WLP095. Anyway, if this is a success after serving for like a month, I might just start doing this from now on. I did one half of my batch using the stainless dip tube filter with a rubber bung in the top (the Janish filter setup) and one half with the CBDS. The CBDS never clogged, but I somehow clogged the Janish setup. I just ordered 3 more CBDSs!

My CBDS has been sitting around unused for the most part since I bought it, but these success stories of serving heavily hopped NEIPA right out of the primary will probably have me giving it a try on my next batch this week.

Regarding the Janis setup that clogged - is your liquid dip tube trimmed or is it sitting close to the bottom of the keg and pressed against the bottom of the filter? I’m not sure how that could possibly clog as long as there’s a little space between the bottom of the dip tube and the bottom of the filter. I think the Janish blog post mentioned this scenario as a possible source of clogs.

 

[stickyfinger]

I trimmed my tube. I think schmutz was getting in around the the seal at the top or something. It clogged completely and then on another batch I tried to rack to a purged keg using it and it broke siphon. It's not worth the fuss at this point. I can use it for beers with not much more than yeast in them though. I used it to rack IPAs from my carboy a long while ago, and it worked well once, but then broke siphon when it sucked all of the liquid out from the inside of the filter and didn't refill fast enough.

 

[chieftain]

So here's my dilemma: I've had a batch fermenting away since Saturday, and it is now around 1.016. Added my dry hop last night. I have to go out of town this Friday for a week, so I see 2 options: 1. Let the fermentation ride until I get back, leaving the dry hop in for 9 days, and then I'd need to prime with sugar prior to racking. Or 2. Transfer now, to take advantage of the few remaining points left to carb up in the keg.

I'm leaning toward 2, but I'm also not sure if it will result in over carbonating since I won't be around to monitor it (and my spunding valve only goes to 15psi).

Chances are good that I'm over thinking this, but welcome any feedback folks may have.

 

[FunkedOut]

Option 2.

Set your valve to 15psi and set the temp to where you get the carbonation you want, using a CO2 volumes chart.

 

[chieftain]

Option 2.

Set your valve to 15psi and set the temp to where you get the carbonation you want, using a CO2 volumes chart.

Appreciate the feedback. I've decided to let it ferment another day or so, and then drop it down to condition around 50 or so while I'm out of town. There's just so much yeast and hop material floating around that I had a hard time getting a hydrometer reading from the samples I've pulled this evening, and I don't have a keg filter or clear beer system at the ready. Bummer.

 

[cheesebach]

I trimmed my tube. I think schmutz was getting in around the the seal at the top or something. It clogged completely and then on another batch I tried to rack to a purged keg using it and it broke siphon. It's not worth the fuss at this point. I can use it for beers with not much more than yeast in them though. I used it to rack IPAs from my carboy a long while ago, and it worked well once, but then broke siphon when it sucked all of the liquid out from the inside of the filter and didn't refill fast enough.

I wonder how that ended up clogging - I’d probably give up on it after that too. It’s worked like a charm for me the 4 times I’ve tried it. I bought some straight dip tubes to use with it that sit about 1” from the bottom of the keg. I haven’t tried serving from the primary using it, but I’m able to closed transfer from primary keg to serving keg just using gravity without losing siphon. I’d guess serving from primary should be even easier, since more hop material would drop out while it was kept cold in the kegerator.

My main concern with using the Janish screens for serving from the primary would be how well it could keep out the yeast surrounding the screen at the bottom of the keg. I can’t imagine it being enough to clog anything, but it’s probably not as good as a floating dip tube for avoiding it.

 

[bg1414]

So i didn't cut my gas tube and filled a little high. Some hop gunk reached the SV inlet and apparently clogged some. It looked like CO2 was still getting in, but I didn't think anything of it until last night when I went to open the FV and noticed a **** ton of CO2 trapped in there. A bit of a mess getting it open and dry hopping. It's spunding now before crash cooling in a few days and transferring to SV. I'm not sure what the pressure was as i was scared to put the spunding on and get it clogged. Right now it says 15 psi after it degassed for about 5 minutes when dry hopping. Not ideal, but lesson learned. Hopefully no off flavors from that high of a pressure ferment. We shall see next week when I try it.

 

[leesmith]

OP here. Hate to break it to you guys, but I’m moving on from corny fermenting. It’s been a great run though and no regrets.

View attachment 573800

Looks great! What brand is that?

 

[schematix]

Looks great! What brand is that?

Stout.

Really nice piece. Clean smooth welds and polished to nearly mirror finish.

 

[leesmith]

OP here. Hate to break it to you guys, but I’m moving on from corny fermenting. It’s been a great run though and no regrets.

View attachment 573800

Schematix would you mind sharing what your process for fermenting in the conical will be? How you’ll limit o2....dry hop.....transfer.

 

[schematix]

Schematix would you mind sharing what your process for fermenting in the conical will be? How you’ll limit o2....dry hop.....transfer.

Actually not terribly dissimilar from the corny kegs. I bought Triclamp to keg fittings for gas and liquid.

I’m gonna do a 2nd chill test cycle this afternoon. I’ll hook up the keg connections to show what the plan is and take pictures.

 

[schematix]

No pictures today. The brand new penguin chiller decided to drain its glycol out overnight all over my floor.

*%%]#{%^{*!!!

Edit: I believe i fixed the assembly flaw in the chiller (cord grip seal wasn't made) and so there may still be pictures yet today.

 

[schematix]

Schematix would you mind sharing what your process for fermenting in the conical will be? How you’ll limit o2....dry hop.....transfer.

Can’t do a full set of pics but hopefully these give the idea...

The top of the fermenter has a 3" TC port. I bought a 3" to 1.5" offset adapter, and a 1.5" TC to GAS post....

For racking i got a 1.5" TC to 1/4" MFL. Going to screw on the liquid line with a liquid QD on other end.

For dry hopping the fermenter comes with this 3" TC adapter for blow off and a hook to hang a hop bag. I'll probably try to just suspend a nylon bag from the hook.

Lastly to do CO2 purges i'm going to connect the top of the fermenter (gas) to the liquid port of the first keg, then jumper gas-liquid to each keg until the end, which will get a spund valve set really low, probably like 1 psi. So they will purge in series.

 

[duelerx]

Can’t do a full set of pics but hopefully these give the idea...

The top of the fermenter has a 3" TC port. I bought a 3" to 1.5" offset adapter, and a 1.5" TC to GAS post....
View attachment 575367

For racking i got a 1.5" TC to 1/4" MFL. Going to screw on the liquid line with a liquid post on other end.
View attachment 575368

For dry hopping the fermenter comes with this 3" TC adapter for blow off and a hook to hang a hop bag. I'll probably try to just suspend a nylon bag from the hook.

View attachment 575369

Lastly to do CO2 purges i'm going to connect the top of the fermenter (gas) to the liquid port of the first keg, then jumper gas-liquid to each keg until the end, which will get a spund valve set really low, probably like 1 psi. So they will purge in series.

View attachment 575370

Really nice setup, hope you can update us how things work out doing dry hopping!.

 

[leesmith]

Can’t do a full set of pics but hopefully these give the idea...

The top of the fermenter has a 3" TC port. I bought a 3" to 1.5" offset adapter, and a 1.5" TC to GAS post....
View attachment 575367

For racking i got a 1.5" TC to 1/4" MFL. Going to screw on the liquid line with a liquid post on other end.
View attachment 575368

For dry hopping the fermenter comes with this 3" TC adapter for blow off and a hook to hang a hop bag. I'll probably try to just suspend a nylon bag from the hook.

View attachment 575369

Lastly to do CO2 purges i'm going to connect the top of the fermenter (gas) to the liquid port of the first keg, then jumper gas-liquid to each keg until the end, which will get a spund valve set really low, probably like 1 psi. So they will purge in series.

View attachment 575370

Thank you for sharing! Looking forward to hearing how the beer your gonna brew comes out.

 

[cheesebach]

So I brewed a NEIPA last weekend with the plan of testing out fermenting and serving in the same keg using the CBDS floating dip tube that I bought awhile back and never got much use out of. Unfortunately, I also had the thought that saving half my dry hop charge for after fermentation finished (and naturally carbonated) would help to seal in even more of the hop aroma goodness. BAD IDEA.

There's 4.25 gallons of beer in my keg and even doing a slow, gentle release of pressure results in foam reaching the top of the keg before I even vent all the gas to pop the lid. I tried dropping the temperature down to 55F in the hope that there would be less pressure in the keg and less foaming, but I tried again and it's the same situation. I didn't expect anywhere near this much foaming just from venting the pressure - I knew there was going to be some after the hops went in, but figured I could probably get the lid back on before the foam volcano reached the top. Turn out I can't even get the lid off without the volcanic eruption.

I think my plan for now is to let everything settle down again overnight and get another keg ready with the Janish dip tube screen, purge it, add the dry hops to that empty/purged keg, and then hope I can closed transfer into it without clogging the CBDS on the way out or creating a new foam volcano from the dry hop in the new keg on their way in.

Does it sound like this would work? Will keeping pressure on the serving keg be enough to keep the dry hops from causing the beer to foam up and block the transfer on the way into the serving keg? Or does anyone have any other suggestions for me to try that they think would be a better solution?

 

[stickyfinger]

So I brewed a NEIPA last weekend with the plan of testing out fermenting and serving in the same keg using the CBDS floating dip tube that I bought awhile back and never got much use out of. Unfortunately, I also had the thought that saving half my dry hop charge for after fermentation finished (and naturally carbonated) would help to seal in even more of the hop aroma goodness. BAD IDEA.

There's 4.25 gallons of beer in my keg and even doing a slow, gentle release of pressure results in foam reaching the top of the keg before I even vent all the gas to pop the lid. I tried dropping the temperature down to 55F in the hope that there would be less pressure in the keg and less foaming, but I tried again and it's the same situation. I didn't expect anywhere near this much foaming just from venting the pressure - I knew there was going to be some after the hops went in, but figured I could probably get the lid back on before the foam volcano reached the top. Turn out I can't even get the lid off without the volcanic eruption.

I think my plan for now is to let everything settle down again overnight and get another keg ready with the Janish dip tube screen, purge it, add the dry hops to that empty/purged keg, and then hope I can closed transfer into it without clogging the CBDS on the way out or creating a new foam volcano from the dry hop in the new keg on their way in.

Does it sound like this would work? Will keeping pressure on the serving keg be enough to keep the dry hops from causing the beer to foam up and block the transfer on the way into the serving keg? Or does anyone have any other suggestions for me to try that they think would be a better solution?

I’ve never transferred an entire keg of warm beer with the CBDS. It’s worth a try. I’d move the keg up onto a counter and let it rest at least an hour or more and don’t move after that to make sure any hops that are in suspension move toward the bottom or stay floating on top to reduce the likelihood of clogging the CBDS filter.

 

[Veets]

I’ve never transferred an entire keg of warm beer with the CBDS. It’s worth a try. I’d move the keg up onto a counter and let it rest at least an hour or more and don’t move after that to make sure any hops that are in suspension move toward the bottom or stay floating on top to reduce the likelihood of clogging the CBDS filter.

Why not chill it way down and wait for everything to settle? There will be less foam at low temperature, and then you can check your poppet for hop debris. You might be able to blow out any residual debris in the line after that, and then pour clear beer afterwards.

Does your CBDS have the filter screen that's recommended for use when dry hopping?

 

[cheesebach]

Why not chill it way down and wait for everything to settle? There will be less foam at low temperature, and then you can check your poppet for hop debris. You might be able to blow out any residual debris in the line after that, and then pour clear beer afterwards.

Does your CBDS have the filter screen that's recommended for use when dry hopping?

Thanks for the suggestions - my CBDS does have the filter screen made for dry hopping. I have not yet tried moving the beer out of the keg, so there should be no clogged poppets or debris in the dip tube line yet. I have considered chilling the beer down to serving temps, but I don't have any experience adding dry hops to cold beer, and I'm concerned they might just sink to the bottom immediately and get covered by anything else that settles out at the cold temperatures before they have a chance to break up and get exposure to the beer. This might not be a valid concern, but I don't have any experience with dry hopping cold in a fermenter.

I believe my options at this point are:

1) Keeping beer at current temp of 60F, try to transfer to a purged keg with a screen around the dip tube which dry hops have already been added to. Either add priming sugar to the secondary/serving keg once the beer is transferred to make up for the lost CO2 from my 2 failed attempts to vent the keg, or just use CO2 to force carbonate the rest of the way.
2) Same as #1, but cold crash beer to <40F before transfer. Allow beer to warm back up to get extraction of the dry hops after beer has been transferred.
3) Vent fermenter keg over the next 1-2 days until there is little/no remaining pressure and I'm able to open it without a foam volcano. Add dry hops and priming sugar to re-carbonate the beer and try serving from the fermenter as originally planned.
4) Cold crash the beer in the fermenting keg and try opening the lid and adding dry hops cold. Allow keg to come back up to fementation temps to get dry hop extraction before chilling again and serving from the fermenter as originally planned.

If you guys had to pick, which option seems to be the best for limiting O2 and getting good extraction from the 2nd dose of dry hops?

 

[Veets]

Thanks for the suggestions - my CBDS does have the filter screen made for dry hopping. I have not yet tried moving the beer out of the keg, so there should be no clogged poppets or debris in the dip tube line yet. I have considered chilling the beer down to serving temps, but I don't have any experience adding dry hops to cold beer, and I'm concerned they might just sink to the bottom immediately and get covered by anything else that settles out at the cold temperatures before they have a chance to break up and get exposure to the beer. This might not be a valid concern, but I don't have any experience with dry hopping cold in a fermenter.

I believe my options at this point are:

1) Keeping beer at current temp of 60F, try to transfer to a purged keg with a screen around the dip tube which dry hops have already been added to. Either add priming sugar to the secondary/serving keg once the beer is transferred to make up for the lost CO2 from my 2 failed attempts to vent the keg, or just use CO2 to force carbonate the rest of the way.
2) Same as #1, but cold crash beer to <40F before transfer. Allow beer to warm back up to get extraction of the dry hops after beer has been transferred.
3) Vent fermenter keg over the next 1-2 days until there is little/no remaining pressure and I'm able to open it without a foam volcano. Add dry hops and priming sugar to re-carbonate the beer and try serving from the fermenter as originally planned.
4) Cold crash the beer in the fermenting keg and try opening the lid and adding dry hops cold. Allow keg to come back up to fementation temps to get dry hop extraction before chilling again and serving from the fermenter as originally planned.

If you guys had to pick, which option seems to be the best for limiting O2 and getting good extraction from the 2nd dose of dry hops?

Personally, I'd try #1 if you're going to use priming sugar and #2 if you're going to force carb. You might keep a little more yeast in suspension if you don't cold crash before transfer. But I think they're all pretty reasonable options.

 

[BeerFst]

Just did my first pressure ferment this weekend for a simple blonde with the Voss Kviek yeast and Mandarina Bavaria. That yeast is a beast. Based on the starter i did (just to propagate for another batch later), most of ferm was wrapped up after 8-10 hours. So i let it ride over night in a 90F water bath, then popped the spund on at 30PSI for the next 36 hours or so. I had purchased a graduated cylinder now that i cant just plop the hydrometer in the brew bucket, but of course i broke that on brew day, so i had to use my refractometer. after adjusting for abv, its right at my FG, and 4.5-5%. First sample was very yeasty, even with the janish filter, but its cold crashing now, planning to transfer it to SK tomorrow night.

I did realize last night though that since the beer was at 90F the whole weekend, 30PSI was not actually sufficient carb, but at least its a start. Does anyone know what i should have put my pressure to for 90F? A quick search of the carb tables top out at 65F. I don;'t think i would want to go much beyond 30PSI even with the best yeast, but im curious what volumes i am actually at right now.

Also definitely recommend the yellow gas tape for the spunding valve. I bought the standard amazon PRV and gauge and SS HW from brewers hardware. That thing held pressure perfectly, stuck right at 22PSI for several days when i first tested it.

 

[stickyfinger]

Just did my first pressure ferment this weekend for a simple blonde with the Voss Kviek yeast and Mandarina Bavaria. That yeast is a beast. Based on the starter i did (just to propagate for another batch later), most of ferm was wrapped up after 8-10 hours. So i let it ride over night in a 90F water bath, then popped the spund on at 30PSI for the next 36 hours or so. I had purchased a graduated cylinder now that i cant just plop the hydrometer in the brew bucket, but of course i broke that on brew day, so i had to use my refractometer. after adjusting for abv, its right at my FG, and 4.5-5%. First sample was very yeasty, even with the janish filter, but its cold crashing now, planning to transfer it to SK tomorrow night.

I did realize last night though that since the beer was at 90F the whole weekend, 30PSI was not actually sufficient carb, but at least its a start. Does anyone know what i should have put my pressure to for 90F? A quick search of the carb tables top out at 65F. I don;'t think i would want to go much beyond 30PSI even with the best yeast, but im curious what volumes i am actually at right now.

Also definitely recommend the yellow gas tape for the spunding valve. I bought the standard amazon PRV and gauge and SS HW from brewers hardware. That thing held pressure perfectly, stuck right at 22PSI for several days when i first tested it.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/keg-carbonation-calculator/

 

[BeerFst]

https://www.brewersfriend.com/keg-carbonation-calculator/

thanks, I dont know why i didnt think to check there. That site constantly amazes me, when i used their abv correction for my refractometer I learned about refractometer correction factors...now i have a new thing to start tracking.

 

[cheesebach]

Personally, I'd try #1 if you're going to use priming sugar and #2 if you're going to force carb. You might keep a little more yeast in suspension if you don't cold crash before transfer. But I think they're all pretty reasonable options.

Thanks for the recommendations - I was able to get the beer moved over to the dry hop keg last night using the CBDS without much issue. I sanitized and purged the dry hop keg, then attached CO2 to the liquid out while I opened the lid to add the dry hops. I went slow with the transfer and kept the pressure in both kegs higher than the starting pressure in the fermenting keg to limit CO2 coming out of solution when the beer hit the dry hops in the second keg.

I still don't think I have a good plan that I like for future beers when adding dry hops after naturally carbonating during fermentation. Seems like adding priming sugar to carbonate in the keg at the same time I dry hop might be best, but it's an extra step I'd rather avoid and I'm expecting it would delay getting the keg ready to serve by a few days while I wait for the beer to carbonate using the added sugar.

 

[stickyfinger]

Thanks for the recommendations - I was able to get the beer moved over to the dry hop keg last night using the CBDS without much issue. I sanitized and purged the dry hop keg, then attached CO2 to the liquid out while I opened the lid to add the dry hops. I went slow with the transfer and kept the pressure in both kegs higher than the starting pressure in the fermenting keg to limit CO2 coming out of solution when the beer hit the dry hops in the second keg.

I still don't think I have a good plan that I like for future beers when adding dry hops after naturally carbonating during fermentation. Seems like adding priming sugar to carbonate in the keg at the same time I dry hop might be best, but it's an extra step I'd rather avoid and I'm expecting it would delay getting the keg ready to serve by a few days while I wait for the beer to carbonate using the added sugar.

Why can't you just dry hop in the primary keg with the CBDS when there are a few points left (to carbonate) or dry hop in the primary and add some priming solution then? Then, you can serve from primary or transfer to a purged keg, no need for oxygen exposure. The hop flavor is amazing when you dry hop during primary in the keg and then serve from the keg or transfer to a fermentation-purged keg. so intense and resinous. no need to keg hop from my perspective.

 

[BeerFst]

So I stuck my Voss blonde in the keezer for the last two days. I thought I had put it at 33 but clearly didn’t ao it just sat at my normal 38. After pouring off a bit of a slug of yeast the first samples are very very yeasty tasting, it’s basically bread. The starter and the gravity sample had the same aroma but both obviously had way higher concentrations of yeast. Its not overly sweet so it’s not an attenuation thing but my question is did I just rush the beast yeast and it actually needs to rest at 70 for a bit? It was at 90 per kviek recommendations. Or do I go ahead and transfer to SV and do a proper cold crash? And I guess a better question for this thread would be is this possibly related to the pressure ferment even though it hit terminal?

 

[TimmyWit]

I don't see any reason to rest it at 70. I have pushed all the Omega Kveik strains into the 90's and have been pleased with the results. What did your fermentation schedule look like? I like to give it a few days to clean up after reaching FG. Either that or do a forced diacetyl test to be sure any precursors are gone.

It sounds like you're pulling from the bottom. If you pick up a floating dip tube, you can pressure transfer to a keg with the floating dip tube installed, crash then use that for your SV.

I have not experienced any issues with pressure fermenting the Kveik strains. I have Hothead and Escarpment Labs Hornindal on tap now. They actually got away from me during fermentation, maxed my 60 psi gauges and they're both drinking great (had to bleed them of course).

I feel like Voss has the most farmhouse character of the 3. You'll get a lot of citrus and even a bit of tartness so just a heads up; your final product will probably resemble a saison more than a blonde.

 

[BeerFst]

Brewed Friday night, pitched around 80-85 (lost more heat tranferrring from kettle to keg than expected). Used a swamp cooler with aquarium heater set to 90 on an inkbird. Kept it there until Monday night when I threw it in the keezer to crash.

How do I do a forced diacetyl test? I’ve heard of forced fermentation tests but not specifically for diacetyl.

I’ve thought about getting a cbds, especially after all the mentions on the last couple pages of this thread but SWMBO has put a stop to equipment spending for a bit. I’ve got a 22” straight dip tube in a standard corny with the janish filter so it’s up off the bottom, away from the center. Though not as far up as if I had bent the tube up to the side.

I hear you on 70 being kind of silly, I figured it was better than nothing if the yeast needed to any cleanup, despite that disagreeing with all I have read on the kviek. That said I did take it out of the keezer earlier and put the spund back on just to get an idea of what was going on inside tomorrow. I’ll check in the morning and probably do another, 33f, crash tomorrow night. First crash only went to 38, I was an idiot and didn’t double check I had saved my new set point so it was just hanging out at my standard keezer temp. The extra starter I saved from the Voss did drop nicely at that temp though.

 

[TimmyWit]

Diacetyl test - https://www.winning-homebrew.com/diacetyl-test.html

You definitely want to be sure everything is done if you're going G2G that fast. It can be done with Kveik but there are plenty of variables in play so it's not a slam dunk you can finish in X days. The yeast may need to clean up but they would be better finishing off the job at the 90F+ you had them at initially.

If you already crashed the yeast out, I'm not sure it will do much bringing it back to room temp. It sounds like you're just pulling yeast at the moment so maybe I'm just not sure what you're trying to achieve. If D happens to rear its ugly head after you crash, the yeast will likely need something to chew on before they can clean it up. Nobody wants to wake up just to clean but if there's a hearty meal waiting on them, they're more likely to roll out of bed and get moving

What do you disagree with about Kveik? I have used it quite a bit over the past year+ and I have not been disappointed.

You are likely good to go and I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this brew.

 

[stickyfinger]

Brewed Friday night, pitched around 80-85 (lost more heat tranferrring from kettle to keg than expected). Used a swamp cooler with aquarium heater set to 90 on an inkbird. Kept it there until Monday night when I threw it in the keezer to crash.

How do I do a forced diacetyl test? I’ve heard of forced fermentation tests but not specifically for diacetyl.

I’ve thought about getting a cbds, especially after all the mentions on the last couple pages of this thread but SWMBO has put a stop to equipment spending for a bit. I’ve got a 22” straight dip tube in a standard corny with the janish filter so it’s up off the bottom, away from the center. Though not as far up as if I had bent the tube up to the side.

I hear you on 70 being kind of silly, I figured it was better than nothing if the yeast needed to any cleanup, despite that disagreeing with all I have read on the kviek. That said I did take it out of the keezer earlier and put the spund back on just to get an idea of what was going on inside tomorrow. I’ll check in the morning and probably do another, 33f, crash tomorrow night. First crash only went to 38, I was an idiot and didn’t double check I had saved my new set point so it was just hanging out at my standard keezer temp. The extra starter I saved from the Voss did drop nicely at that temp though.

have you tried replacing your SWMBO? some have reported better brewing results

 

[Veets]

I still don't think I have a good plan that I like for future beers when adding dry hops after naturally carbonating during fermentation. Seems like adding priming sugar to carbonate in the keg at the same time I dry hop might be best, but it's an extra step I'd rather avoid and I'm expecting it would delay getting the keg ready to serve by a few days while I wait for the beer to carbonate using the added sugar.

Consider getting a second CBDS for your serving keg, and putting your dry hops in the serving keg prior to transfer. Then you can do a pressurized, closed-loop transfer from fermenter keg to serving keg, and not worry about O2 or having to use priming sugar.
I've got an American IPA in the fermenter right now, which I brewed last Friday and have been using to purge a serving keg with a spunding valve on it. I kept it at 10psi during primary, and yesterday allowed it to come up to 30psi for natural carbonation. Next step will be do to a pressurized, closed-loop transfer to the purged serving keg (which already has an extra charge of Amarillo hop pellets in it), then chill it down after letting the hop oils dissolve.

 

[stickyfinger]

Consider getting a second CBDS for your serving keg, and putting your dry hops in the serving keg prior to transfer. Then you can do a pressurized, closed-loop transfer from fermenter keg to serving keg, and not worry about O2 or having to use priming sugar.
I've got an American IPA in the fermenter right now, which I brewed last Friday and have been using to purge a serving keg with a spunding valve on it. I kept it at 10psi during primary, and yesterday allowed it to come up to 30psi for natural carbonation. Next step will be do to a pressurized, closed-loop transfer to the purged serving keg (which already has an extra charge of Amarillo hop pellets in it), then chill it down after letting the hop oils dissolve.

so you put the amarillo into the sanitized SK before you hooked up the FK and spunding valve in the SK? that could work well

 

[BeerFst]

Diacetyl test - https://www.winning-homebrew.com/diacetyl-test.html

What do you disagree with about Kveik? I have used it quite a bit over the past year+ and I have not been disappointed.

I just meant that everything I had read had supported extremely fast grain to glass, and that i may not need to let it clean up really, despite my better judgemtn. So it wasnt so much disagreeing with you specifically, just the general public.

I agree that 90 would have been better, but since i had broken down my swamp heater and it was already 11, i just said forget it and stuck it at room temp. I was just thinking that since i didnt check FG more than once that maybe there was some remaining extract that needed to be converted. I figured that if i was pulling a ton of yeast that maybe there was enough in solution to still clean things up, but i get that that is probably wrong.

I'll do the precursor test tonight (way easier than i had expected it to be) and if i do get it to be buttery, ill toss in some dextrose, get it back to 90F and let her clean up. I was still short .5 volumes of carb from the initial spund, so other than waiting a bit more time, it will only benefit.

The saison nature could be interesting. I'm not a huge fan of a classic super flowery saison (though i did just have trillium free rise for the first time and it was great), but I do like the new style, sourish kind, so if this is what you are describing i am in. I'm hoping that its just the yeast in solution that is covering up the mandarina cause right now im not really getting anything from the hop stand. worst case i can "carefully" SK Keg hop it to get some more character, though i rather not have to mess with that

 

[stickyfinger]

I'll do the precursor test tonight (way easier than i had expected it to be) and if i do get it to be buttery, ill toss in some dextrose, get it back to 90F and let her clean up. I was still short .5 volumes of carb from the initial spund, so other than waiting a bit more time, it will only benefit.

i went through a long period of diacetyl problems and did tons of diacetyl precursor tests. I found that unless I used certain yeast strains, I almost always had precursors in my hoppy beers. It's very hard to avoid precursors in hoppy beers for some reason (perhaps the hop creep effect.) Now that I stopped cold crashing in carboys, I haven't had any diacetyl issues and stopped doing the test. It never hurts to do the test though just to see if there are precursors and then see whether the keg develops diacetyl if you do detect precursors.

 

[TimmyWit]

I just meant that everything I had read had supported extremely fast grain to glass, and that i may not need to let it clean up really, despite my better judgemtn. So it wasnt so much disagreeing with you specifically, just the general public.

I'll do the precursor test tonight (way easier than i had expected it to be) and if i do get it to be buttery, ill toss in some dextrose, get it back to 90F and let her clean up. I was still short .5 volumes of carb from the initial spund, so other than waiting a bit more time, it will only benefit.

The saison nature could be interesting. I'm not a huge fan of a classic super flowery saison (though i did just have trillium free rise for the first time and it was great), but I do like the new style, sourish kind, so if this is what you are describing i am in. I'm hoping that its just the yeast in solution that is covering up the mandarina cause right now im not really getting anything from the hop stand. worst case i can "carefully" SK Keg hop it to get some more character, though i rather not have to mess with that

Oh, it can clean-up AND be done quick. I pitched Hornindal and Voss on top of cakes from a previous batch and they fermented from 1.063 to 1.010 in a day. I caught it just in time to get the dry hop in there (17 hrs in @ 1.017). I gave them a few days to clean up, did a diacetyl test on day 3, then crashed on day 4. With spunding, I was drinking a perfectly carbed beer 5 days after brew day. Still, to go that fast, you'd need a very large healthy pitch, aeration, and high temps.

This last brew day I almost forgot who I was messing with. I left the kegs at room temp after pitching while waiting for my ferm chamber to come to temps. I came back to put the spunding valve on 2 hours later and was already at 50 psi.

Diacetyl isn't perceived as buttery to everyone. I had to learn what it was and really think about it to see how you could pull butter from that aroma. But, with the test you are doing, if one smells different than the other, you'll learn what diacetyl smells like to you.

It won't come across as super sour; just a mild tartness that goes pretty well with the citrus

 

[BeerFst]

So do you follow normal ale pitch rates with them? Lars had suggested a tsp of slurry per 25l which I thought was insane. I have read anecdotes and articles on the actual Norwegians using similar amounts of dried but it was still too little for me to you with. I did still underpitch but to the tune of 100b where the 4.5gallons of 1.049 required 180b (I think), as calculated on brewers friend

 

[TimmyWit]

I follow my normal ale pitching rates which means building a larger than necessary starter. I have never experienced an off-flavor from over-pitching so my rationale is to account for lower than expected viability.

The batch that finished in a day would have been a very large pitching rate since it was pitched on a yeast cake. With that in mind, it was basically a decanted 4 gallon starter. Still, I did not experience any negative effects; just a super fast ferment.

I know some folks like to intentionally underpitch to encourage ester formation. I think Lars is just suggesting to replicate what the Norwegian farmers are doing. But, they're also drinking the stuff warm and flat a few days after brewing.

 

[stickyfinger]

Oh, it can clean-up AND be done quick. I pitched Hornindal and Voss on top of cakes from a previous batch and they fermented from 1.063 to 1.010 in a day. I caught it just in time to get the dry hop in there (17 hrs in @ 1.017). I gave them a few days to clean up, did a diacetyl test on day 3, then crashed on day 4. With spunding, I was drinking a perfectly carbed beer 5 days after brew day. Still, to go that fast, you'd need a very large healthy pitch, aeration, and high temps.

This last brew day I almost forgot who I was messing with. I left the kegs at room temp after pitching while waiting for my ferm chamber to come to temps. I came back to put the spunding valve on 2 hours later and was already at 50 psi.

Diacetyl isn't perceived as buttery to everyone. I had to learn what it was and really think about it to see how you could pull butter from that aroma. But, with the test you are doing, if one smells different than the other, you'll learn what diacetyl smells like to you.

It won't come across as super sour; just a mild tartness that goes pretty well with the citrus

diacetyl smells like butterscotch to me. it’s DISGUSTING in ipa