Pressurized Closed Loop Corny Keg Fermenting

[stonebrewer]

Pressure is pressure regardless of source. My point is that you are in effect simulating an enormous tank, larger than is normally used, by using that much pressure. The shape of primary tanks are much different than those used as secondary/brite tanks.

I experienced sluggishness as well at higher pressures... that's one reason why i went to blow off tube until closer to the end of primary. I don't think pressure is necessarily a good thing when strictly considering yeast.

I'm doing primary for ales in about 2-3 days and lagers in 7-8.

Not really. Pressure from weight is something you cannot change easily. Beer is going to weigh what it does. Professional brewers distinguish between the two, because they can control the pressure applied by CO2. Your experience and mine do not exactly mesh. That is okay! I don't see an issue with fermenting under pressures of 10-15 PSI during "primary" nor do I see an issue with bumping the pressure to 20+ to carbonate. I go grain to glass in 6-8 days. Shrug.

 

[daveMN]

Not really. Pressure from weight is something you cannot change easily. Beer is going to weigh what it does. Professional brewers distinguish between the two, because they can control the pressure applied by CO2. Your experience and mine do not exactly mesh. That is okay! I don't see an issue with fermenting under pressures of 10-15 PSI during "primary" nor do I see an issue with bumping the pressure to 20+ to carbonate. I go grain to glass in 6-8 days. Shrug.

Are you fermenting in a corny or a different kind of FV?

 

[schematix]

Not really. Pressure from weight is something you cannot change easily. Beer is going to weigh what it does. Professional brewers distinguish between the two, because they can control the pressure applied by CO2. Your experience and mine do not exactly mesh. That is okay! I don't see an issue with fermenting under pressures of 10-15 PSI during "primary" nor do I see an issue with bumping the pressure to 20+ to carbonate. I go grain to glass in 6-8 days. Shrug.

I am referring to the pressure that the yeast sees. That doesn't change. Carbonation is another story. You need what you need to get the desired volumes for the temperature you're at.

For ales i'll be up to around 30 psi during carbonation. Ice cold lager fermentation pressures are like 6-7 psi.

 

[stonebrewer]

Are you fermenting in a corny or a different kind of FV?

Corny with a spunding valve. They are rated for 150 PSI and the PRV releases at 90 PSI. The spunding valve I have can go up to 50 PSI. I have a Zymatic, so most of my fermentation is done this way. I also have a larger system which I brew less often on, and at much larger volume, so I usually do not ferment in the corny with those brews.

 

[SanPancho]

Some perspective here too...

Every 30” of beer in a tank exerts 1 psi. (I know this isn’t exact, but close enough)

Applying 20 psi is like having a 50’ tank.

28 inches to be exact. which i'd have to think is pretty rare in a homebrew setup.

there are certain strains that arent bothered at all by high pressure. and some that just shut down.

That is pressure from weight. Pro brewers also add pressure from natural CO2, so they can carbonate. Again, many pro brewers on other forums claim to ferment under a decent amount of pressure (20 PSI+), without issue. My personal experience has been similar. <shrug>

I think you’re missing some details on your facts and references. Starting at high pressure is entirely different than letting it get there over time. Ask those brewers if they pitch AND pressurize at same time. My guess is no. Capping the tank and letting it run would still likely keep you under 10-15 psi until the second half of the ferment.

As pressure mainly affects growth you could sort of avoid the issue with a big ass pitch. There are also strains which are fine under pressure, or can be moved that way over a few generations. High pressure lager is the example that comes to mind. Im sure there are others.

Lastly, you are wrong about pressure in a conical. And so is schematix. Head pressure is only a measure of the gas pressure in head space and the beer at the very top of the tank. Hydrostatic pressure builds with depth, so pressure in a 280 inch tall tank will be 5psi in headspace but 15 at the cone. In a tall enough vessel you see a gradient of pressure, not a uniform amount. The convection of the wort averages out the pressure that each yeast cell sees over time as it travels in the currents.

Are you adding 10-15-20psi at the same time you pitch your yeast?

 

[stonebrewer]

I don't add CO2, the yeast does by creating CO2 which comes out of suspension into the head space. I don't think I am "wrong" about pressure, I think you and I are saying the same thing, but you are interpreting my writing different than I intended and therefore I did not go into enough detail to clearly state what I was trying to convey. I never said I add CO2 (I don't like the carbonic bite I detect from forced carb) and I never said I started fermentation by pressuring the tank, nor did I say pros do that either.

If I close my spunding valve, I get to 10 PSI quickly...within 24 hours or so. If I don't open it up it day two, it will quickly get over 25 PSI. Early fermentation creates an enormous amount of CO2 (and alcohol, w00t!). So the yeast create all the pressure from CO2, I do not add anything nor do I think any pro brewer adds CO2 from a tank. Hope that clears that up...

During all of fermentation, the yeast is under pressure from CO2 in my setup. This pressure starts at close to 0PSI, ramps to 10-15PSI overnight based on a spring, a weight, a screw, and my discretion. It stays that way for a few days, at which point I close the valve again and let it pressure up to ~25 PSI for carbonating the beer. Push this into a SV that has O2 removed to the best of my ability and into the cold for serving.

I mainly do ales using this methodology. For lagers, I generally do larger batches and use completely different equipment. I love the results and have had zero issues with the beer or the yeast. Again, YMMV...

 

[schematix]

28 inches to be exact.

You are absolutely correct that the static pressure is a function of a depth. I was referring to the pressure at the bottom of the tank. Trying to keep things simple never really works....

But you are not correct on the conversion from psi to inches of water column. Pressure from water is 1 psi per 27.70" of water. Also, wort is not water, so this changes based on the density, which also changes during fermentation. So a typical 1.050 wort only needs 26.38" to create 1 psi (at the bottom).

 

[SanPancho]

You are absolutely correct that the static pressure is a function of a depth. I was referring to the pressure at the bottom of the tank. Trying to keep things simple never really works....

But you are not correct on the conversion from psi to inches of water column. Pressure from water is 1 psi per 27.70" of water. Also, wort is not water, so this changes based on the density, which also changes during fermentation. So a typical 1.050 wort only needs 26.38" to create 1 psi (at the bottom).

in america 1/4psi is equal to a 7" water column. which implies 28" wc for 1psi. you can find that on pretty much any gas appliance. its a standard. easy to remember. a pint is a pound, the world around. etc. ANSI standard? accurate to the nth decimal? no, but good enough.

if we were in a laboratory then fine, show us your decimals.

now if you want to calculate homebrewers on this site being able to accurately measure the difference in pressure between a calculated 28" wc and your actual 27.7" wc in their 5 gallon carboys, you can go ahead and use two decimals. my guess is you'd need them. otherwise, you're just being that guy.

but yes, if you want the win and the last word, ANSI is 27.7 inches. you are the correct guy.

 

[schematix]

but yes, if you want the win and the last word, ANSI is 27.7 inches. you are the correct guy.

Well to be fair you were calling me out for not being completely accurate and simplifying the situation, but then you stated an 'exact' value for something which i had already noted was approximate. And your 'exact' value is also an approximation.

 

[SanPancho]

I don't add CO2, the yeast does by creating CO2 which comes out of suspension into the head space. I don't think I am "wrong" about pressure, I think you and I are saying the same thing, but you are interpreting my writing different than I intended and therefore I did not go into enough detail to clearly state what I was trying to convey. I never said I add CO2 (I don't like the carbonic bite I detect from forced carb) and I never said I started fermentation by pressuring the tank, nor did I say pros do that either.

If I close my spunding valve, I get to 10 PSI quickly...within 24 hours or so. If I don't open it up it day two, it will quickly get over 25 PSI. Early fermentation creates an enormous amount of CO2 (and alcohol, w00t!). So the yeast create all the pressure from CO2, I do not add anything nor do I think any pro brewer adds CO2 from a tank. Hope that clears that up...

During all of fermentation, the yeast is under pressure from CO2 in my setup. This pressure starts at close to 0PSI, ramps to 10-15PSI overnight based on a spring, a weight, a screw, and my discretion. It stays that way for a few days, at which point I close the valve again and let it pressure up to ~25 PSI for carbonating the beer. Push this into a SV that has O2 removed to the best of my ability and into the cold for serving.

I mainly do ales using this methodology. For lagers, I generally do larger batches and use completely different equipment. I love the results and have had zero issues with the beer or the yeast. Again, YMMV...

come to think of it, i stand corrected. its been a while but if i recall, 1plato spits out like 2 or 2.5 volumes. so with a healthy ferm you could easily get to 10 in a day or so, with standard 20% headspace.

the point i keep circling back to is that pressure inhibits growth. which is why i'd guess you're not putting head pressure on, but letting it start at atmosphere. as i also noted before, you can do a huge pitch to mitigate the effects of pressure, but most just let the yeast create the pressure.

as for "lots of pros" doing these high temp ferms, i cant say i believe it. through some luck of knowing some really old school brewers (30+ years in the biz) i've met alot of folks at places like russian river, lagunitas, sierra, stone, ballast, etc. alot of shooting the **** happens, but the few times i've heard of pressurized ferms its been under 10 until they crank it up to spund. which generally is the last plato or two. (i dont know why but the old dudes always use plato- makes my head hurt trying to convert while listening)

lastly, the thing that frustrates me the most about brewing in general, is that there are strains they act totally different from others in certain regards. for every strain that runs like a champ under 20psi, theres another that has to be coaxed along. (this is per the old guys' war stories, not my personal experience). or pulls hop oils out vs others than leave no trace. or need more/less o2. etc.

so yes, in terms of yeast strains, this is very much a YMMV situation. but the one common theme is that you always let the yeast start under atmosphere or very low pressure ( say 1psi to keep o2 out).

i wish i had your luck. my preferred lager strain does NOT like to be under pressure.

 

[SanPancho]

I am referring to the pressure that the yeast sees. That doesn't change.

im sorry, you seem to be saying that yeast in a fermenter sees static pressure throughout its fermentation?

but then when i point it out, you acknowledge that the hydrostatic is higher the deeper you go in the tank, ergo it is NOT a static pressure on yeast throughout a vessel and throughout the yeasts fermentation cycle.

i wasnt calling you out for being inaccurate to the nth decimal. i was saying you are misrepresenting the pressure situation in a conical tank of decent size/height.

but if you want to change the subject to the actual decimal value of ANSI water column, we can do that again. you nailed it, two decimals.

you win!

 

[schematix]

im sorry, you seem to be saying that yeast in a fermenter sees static pressure throughout its fermentation?

No the yeast sees the head pressure (constant) + the (variable) static pressure due to the depth it's at. At a minimum it sees the head pressure.

My point is simply that if you put pressure on a corny keg fermenter, you're going to roughly simulate a taller conical fermenter. Is it exact? No because during fermentation the yeast will circulate and see an average. But it will go through cycles of more and less pressure until the end when it starts to floccs, then experiences maximum pressure.

 

[SanPancho]

thank you for repeating my own statements to me.

we done?

 

[schematix]

Yah that's the beauty of the reply and quote function.

 

[stonebrewer]

@SanPancho - hate to make your head spin, but I generally under pitch to get more esters in my IPAs. I don't under pitch by a lot, but enough to encourage a more estery beer. Only for ales, only for IPAs, and I have no problems going G2G in a week. Only negative I have found to doing this is I occasionally finish 1-2 points above my target, but I really don't mind a smattering of sweetness in an IPA to balance the bitterness.

As far as believing that pros ferment under pressure (I don't think I said high pressure, I meant the same process I outlined that I do...0 PSI to 10ish, let it ferment mostly out, then cap to carb), I think if you do a few google searches or search pro brewer sites, you will find discussions like we are engaged in between pros about the pros and cons of this. I also have a few pro acquaintances who told me to do this (and to find a way to recirculate during fermentation, which I am working on, especially with cryo). Additionally, I got the idea originally from email exchanges with the founder of Trillium, JC Tetreault. He explained that if you are venting all that CO2 during fermentation, you are losing a lot of the aromatics from your dry hop. <shrug>

 

[Dog House Brew]

@SanPancho - hate to make your head spin, but I generally under pitch to get more esters in my IPAs. I don't under pitch by a lot, but enough to encourage a more estery beer. Only for ales, only for IPAs, and I have no problems going G2G in a week. Only negative I have found to doing this is I occasionally finish 1-2 points above my target, but I really don't mind a smattering of sweetness in an IPA to balance the bitterness.

As far as believing that pros ferment under pressure (I don't think I said high pressure, I meant the same process I outlined that I do...0 PSI to 10ish, let it ferment mostly out, then cap to carb), I think if you do a few google searches or search pro brewer sites, you will find discussions like we are engaged in between pros about the pros and cons of this. I also have a few pro acquaintances who told me to do this (and to find a way to recirculate during fermentation, which I am working on, especially with cryo). Additionally, I got the idea originally from email exchanges with the founder of Trillium, JC Tetreault. He explained that if you are venting all that CO2 during fermentation, you are losing a lot of the aromatics from your dry hop. <shrug>

So do you just adjust with a spunding valve to regulate the pressure?

 

[stonebrewer]

@Dog House Brew : Yes, that is how I regulate pressure...a simple spunding valve, which is just a screw, a weight with an o-ring, and spring and tubing/parts to connect to the keg. Simple device. The screw pushes the weight by compressing the spring, sealing a cylinder with the o-ring. Pressure from the tank pushes the other direction. When it gets enough pressure, it pushes the weight out of the way and gas escapes, lowering the pressure, and the spring pushes the opening closed again. I also have a pressure gauge attached to it to read the pressure. It is a 0-60 PSI gauge, which is a bit overkill...0-30PSI would work as well and give a little better granularity.

 

[jekeane]

Im brewing a Maibock this weekend and am considering giving this a try. I have a spunding valve and would like to carbonate without adding sugar if I catch it at the right time. Are you adjusting your normal fermentation temperatures during this process? I generally pitch my lagers around 46° and set to 48° with a self rise to 50° after a few days. I do a diacetyl rest in the 60's after a two weeks.

 

[schematix]

Diacetyl rest is complete unnecessary if you pitch enough healthy yeast. Definitely a band-aid fix for a bigger problem.

I usually aim for 48F and then slowly start to lower it as the racking / spunding point is reached, and continue to lower it down to 30F for lagering.

 

[arrasmithf]

I actually used white labs wlp925 high pressure lager yeast. It's designed to be fermented at 68F and 15psi.I'm new to the pressure fermentation but seems like it's going well. Taking my first reading/tasting tomorrow and I will update. It's kind of maddening not being able to see the activity like in a carboy tho. Can't wait!

 

[NZhomebrew]

Hey guys, I've tried this method three times with pale ales and I am having issues with diacetyl. The first two times I pitched US05 and fermented at 68 degrees at 24psi for 2 weeks, both with strong diacetyl taste when transferred to the serving keg. The third time is used 1056 and fermented at 0psi at 65 degrees for 4 days then let it gradually increase to 18psi for another week at 71 degrees, again diacetyl although less and the first two times.

I have brewed successful batches in between using the traditional methods not under pressure which have turned out good so i can discount infection.

I am fermenting in 5 gallon cornys. I have not tried with larger at all.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to prevent diacetyl for my next attempt? I am about to give up and stick with traditional fermenting.

 

[schematix]

How much US05 did you pitch and what was the OG?

 

[NZhomebrew]

How much US05 did you pitch and what was the OG?

I pitched 1 packet rehydrated into a 2.5 gallon batch.

For the 1056, i eastimate to have pitched between 100 - 150 billon cells into 2.5 gallons.

 

[tubatrub]

This thread kicks ass! Thanks schematix and others who have contributed.

Here is my setup, pressure tested and ready to go. Planning to try it next batch. Couple questions...

I have a double IPA kit. 1.08 OG. The kit came with one Safale US-05 packet, and instructions said to NOT rehydrate the yeast. For a few reasons I was confused by this, as my inclination would be to do a big yeast starter. If I just pitched dry yeast as recommended, and a few drops of fermcap, should I still be concerned with blowoff or clogging the poppet? How about with a big starter and fermcap?

I added the filter housing to be able to somewhat monitor fermentation. Maybe unnecessary (since the PRV is on the serving keg), but I figure it's also extra security to keep any krausen away from the PRV. Also, has anyone tried using filter housing to add a hop tea during transfer to the serving keg?

My plan is to ferment at 3-5psi for the first day or two, crank up to 10-15 for a few days, then when I am about 2 points from FG (picnic tap for samples when things start to settle down), crank it up to 30 and hopefully hit my target. I would then cold crash for a few days, transfer and serve.

Thoughts on a doing yeast starter? Pressure schedule recommendations? Super stoked to give this a try!

 

[schematix]

Looks like you're ready to go.

How big is your kit? If its 5 gallons of 1.080 i'd use at least 3 packs of US-05.

US-05 is a huge top cropping yeast. If you're doing 4+ gallons in there you need to be aware that filter housing may fill up!

 

[tubatrub]

Looks like you're ready to go.

How big is your kit? If its 5 gallons of 1.080 i'd use at least 3 packs of US-05.

US-05 is a huge top cropping yeast. If you're doing 4+ gallons in there you need to be aware that filter housing may fill up!

Yes, 5 gallons. Thanks for the tip on the yeast strain! For that reason I am also considering 4 gallons of wort in the FV with one gallon of clean water waiting and being purged in the SV.

 

[schematix]

Don’t do that unless you completely deoxygenate the water in the serving keg. Not easily accomplished!

 

[Veets]

This thread kicks ass! Thanks schematix and others who have contributed.

Here is my setup, pressure tested and ready to go. Planning to try it next batch. Couple questions...

I have a double IPA kit. 1.08 OG. The kit came with one Safale US-05 packet, and instructions said to NOT rehydrate the yeast. For a few reasons I was confused by this, as my inclination would be to do a big yeast starter. If I just pitched dry yeast as recommended, and a few drops of fermcap, should I still be concerned with blowoff or clogging the poppet? How about with a big starter and fermcap?

I added the filter housing to be able to somewhat monitor fermentation. Maybe unnecessary (since the PRV is on the serving keg), but I figure it's also extra security to keep any krausen away from the PRV. Also, has anyone tried using filter housing to add a hop tea during transfer to the serving keg?

My plan is to ferment at 3-5psi for the first day or two, crank up to 10-15 for a few days, then when I am about 2 points from FG (picnic tap for samples when things start to settle down), crank it up to 30 and hopefully hit my target. I would then cold crash for a few days, transfer and serve.

Thoughts on a doing yeast starter? Pressure schedule recommendations? Super stoked to give this a try!

Any results yet?

I did a filter housing setup, but disconnected it after the first week or so and didn't hook it up again. I hooked the PRV directly to the fermenter at that point, and left the SK at something like 5PSI.

I'm struggling to imagine how you could use the filter housing to catch krausen during the fermentation, and then later for hop tea, without opening it up and introducing O2.

On a somewhat related idea, I was messing around trying to fix what I thought was a stuck fermentation batch one time, and used one of those carbcap gizmos to inject liquid right into the serving keg (it could have been the fermenter keg, if I had desired). The carbcap was the type with the barb on the inside. I hooked up a length of hose, maybe 6 inches, so that it would draw from the bottom of a plastic soda bottle I hooked it up to. Filled the soda bottle with the yeast mixture, purged the headspace by squeezing the bottle most of the way, and then hit it with CO2 to get it up to 30 or 40 PSI. When I then hooked that bottle up to the SK (via the gas port, I think) , the liquid in the soda bottle shot right into the keg due to the pressure differential. The SK was around 10 or 12 PSI. I think I read the idea on this board somewhere (maybe even this thread!), and it works.

You could probably do the same for your hop tea, but as mentioned above if you don't deoxygenate it then you're losing the benefit of the closed system and low O2 levels.

Also, for what it's worth, my fermentation was not stuck and adding yeast didn't help. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. And come to think of it, I now wonder if the 30-40 PSI, even for just a minute or two, killed the yeast. That hadn't occurred to me before, but I suppose it could be true.

 

[SanPancho]

Any results yet?


On a somewhat related idea, I was messing around trying to fix what I thought was a stuck fermentation batch one time, and used one of those carbcap gizmos to inject liquid right into the serving keg (it could have been the fermenter keg, if I had desired). The carbcap was the type with the barb on the inside. I hooked up a length of hose, maybe 6 inches, so that it would draw from the bottom of a plastic soda bottle I hooked it up to. Filled the soda bottle with the yeast mixture, purged the headspace by squeezing the bottle most of the way, and then hit it with CO2 to get it up to 30 or 40 PSI. When I then hooked that bottle up to the SK (via the gas port, I think) , the liquid in the soda bottle shot right into the keg due to the pressure differential. The SK was around 10 or 12 PSI. I think I read the idea on this board somewhere (maybe even this thread!), and it works.

how did you connect to the QD on the keg? QD to QD with just some tubing or something? An MFL to MFL coupler?

 

[Veets]

Yes, QD to QD

 

[degivens]

Time for a dumb idea...feel free to tell me what I am missing:

Setup - I have a Zymatic, so I do smaller 3 gallon batches. Keep that in mind. Means a lot more headspace in the keg and thus a lot more oxygen, so I have to purge the kegs of O2 or the batches get brown in a week or less. I ferment under pressure with a spunding valve and have regularly kept it set at 20 PSI without any issues. Fermentation is usually done in about a week. I have a clear draught system in my serving keg with a stainless screen I designed/built over the intake.

Here's the idea - instead of (or in addition too?) water purging the serving vessel, why not just push a half gallon or so over from the FV while at peak fermentation? Yeast move over with some wort, eat all the O2, and Bob's your uncle? I am a firm believer of the KISS principle (yeah, even though I am a DIY homebrewer!) and it seems to me that this might work well. What am I missing here? Could even work for the times when I use my larger system for 5 or 10 gallon batches.

How are you transferring from your primary keg to your serving vessel if the serving vessel has a filter over the intake (seems like it would clog up almost instantly when transferring)? Are you transferring into the gas side of your serving vessel or am I dumb and missing something?

Also out of curiosity have you tried just serving from the primary vessel with the clear beer + filter setup...?

 

[SanPancho]

i was wondering the same thing. you'd have to fill on the gas side, no?

speaking of clear beer, anybody used the floating dip tube from the fermentasaurus? same principle, $9 from morebeer.

 

[leesmith]

i was wondering the same thing. you'd have to fill on the gas side, no?

speaking of clear beer, anybody used the floating dip tube from the fermentasaurus? same principle, $9 from morebeer.

I just took a look at that. Does it have a filter on the end? My concern would be clogging it with hops but that's a great price.

 

[SanPancho]

The whole point is that it negates the need for a filter by floating.

If you really want a filter they also sell a dip tube screen you could probably slip on somehow.

I have a dip tube filter. Not the fermentasaurus floater tho. Just guessing based on photos of the unit. Seems like you could make it work.

 

[leesmith]

The whole point is that it negates the need for a filter by floating.

If you really want a filter they also sell a dip tube screen you could probably slip on somehow.

I have a dip tube filter. Not the fermentasaurus floater tho. Just guessing based on photos of the unit. Seems like you could make it work.

Even the clear beer thing sells a filter for their system so somebody must have clogged it at one time. I could see disturbing the trub/dry hops and causing it to get sucked up in there.

Anyways....which filter do you use on your dip tube and how do you like it? I'm considering getting one.

 

[SanPancho]

I cant remember if i got it at morebeer or AIH. I used it when i fermented in cornys. Put another gasket over it to fully seal it on the tube (same one from the top of the dip tube/post). Kept hops out, but tiny particles did get through a bit. And i neverr seemed to get the right length on a shortened dip tube so now i just ferment in carboy and pressure transfer to keg for carbing.

 

[stonebrewer]

How are you transferring from your primary keg to your serving vessel if the serving vessel has a filter over the intake (seems like it would clog up almost instantly when transferring)? Are you transferring into the gas side of your serving vessel or am I dumb and missing something?

Also out of curiosity have you tried just serving from the primary vessel with the clear beer + filter setup...?

I haven't tried this setup yet, but I would almost certainly transfer into the gas side to avoid clogging the clear draught filter. I have not tried serving from primary and am waiting anxiously for someone to report back on how that worked for them (hint, hint, ...) so I can decide whether or not to try it as well. I suspect that will lead to problems with a large hop load, but maybe not!

 

[stickyfinger]

What would be your reply to this post?

http://scottjanish.com/fermenting-dry-hopping-pressure/

It seems some people I've read about online didn't get as good of flavor fermenting under pressure (at least at the end.) Do you think it was just a fluke? Has anyone done a batch exactly the same except one is partially under pressure with closed transfers vs just racking from a carboy to a purged keg and carbonating with a CO2 cylinder? Just curious if you can tell doing a side by side. I'm interested in setting up one of these to play around with, but my main concerns are clogging the lines as I can't get perfect wort into my fermenter and I like loose dry hops not bagged (though I am willing to try bagging them.)

 

[schematix]

Forced carbonation is no good, no matter how you transfer.

I'd be really weary of free balling hops into a keg. The poppet designs are not at all clog tolerant. You're asking for troubles.

 

[Hannabrew]

I'm using the fermentasaurus floating dip tubes in my kegs (and 2 CB with filters) and they work great. As for filters, I think the main purpose of the filter for the CB is for whole hops as they float...pellets will drop so I free hop in the keg for both floating dip tubes.