Praise the Lord! Or How to Resurrect a Saison for Bottling...

[EinGutesBier]

I have 7 gallons of Saison that have been sitting/finishing up in primary for about 2, 2.5 months right now. From what I can tell, she's done just about all she's going to do. This weekend I plan on bottling the whole lot of it.

Here's the question. How do I get this beast of a batch adequately carbonated? I'm concerned that the yeast is all tuckered out or dormant at this point, so I can't count on the stuff that's in it to bottle condition properly. I know how to krauesen beer, so is that an option to try? I suppose I'd need a huge starter to carbonate 7 gallons...the only downside is that it's tough to calculate the volumes of CO2 that you'd get when using that technique.

Anyone else been in this situation? I'm really excited for this beer and would like to carbonate it once and carbonate it correctly. Excuse my ignorance - I've never bottled beer that had mellowed for this long before.

 

[Gedvondur]

Well, you don't need a big starter. You need some fresh yeast of the same variety to add to the bottle bucket. The problem with using a traditional starter is two fold.

First, you don't want any liquid that isn't at terminal gravity. That could throw off your carbonation and create bottle bombs. Second, this is just carbonation, you don't need a huge starter for that.

In beers that we have done a long conditioning on we have always either simply saved a third of the starter at the beginning or saved some of the cake out of the primary. We then add that to the bottling bucket with the proper amount of corn sugar or DME.

In your case, I would recommend that you simply create another small starter and let it go until it finishes. After its finished, decant most of the liquid and add the little cake, or a portion of it to your bottling bucket and stir it in with the carbonation sugar. Mix thoroughly to suspend the yeast.

That should do just fine. You don't need a ton of yeast to bottle carbonate.

We have used this method on our Chimay Blue clones and it works dandy.


Gedvondur

 

[EinGutesBier]

Well, you don't need a big starter. You need some fresh yeast of the same variety to add to the bottle bucket. The problem with using a traditional starter is two fold.

First, you don't want any liquid that isn't at terminal gravity. That could throw off your carbonation and create bottle bombs. Second, this is just carbonation, you don't need a huge starter for that.

In beers that we have done a long conditioning on we have always either simply saved a third of the starter at the beginning or saved some of the cake out of the primary. We then add that to the bottling bucket with the proper amount of corn sugar or DME.

In your case, I would recommend that you simply create another small starter and let it go until it finishes. After its finished, decant most of the liquid and add the little cake, or a portion of it to your bottling bucket and stir it in with the carbonation sugar. Mix thoroughly to suspend the yeast.

That should do just fine. You don't need a ton of yeast to bottle carbonate.

We have used this method on our Chimay Blue clones and it works dandy.


Gedvondur

That could do the trick. I know there is an equation for calculating the amount of gyle necessary for krausening, but is there an equation for calculating CO2 using that method?

 

[Drunkensatyr]

2 - 2.5 months is not long enough for the yeast to be done. What is your FG?

 

[Donasay]

toss in a package of dry yeast then rack on top of it, that is what I did on a 6 month old porter I had to carbonate in bottle.

 

[EinGutesBier]

2 - 2.5 months is not long enough for the yeast to be done. What is your FG?

Last time I checked, it was between 1.007 and 1.008. It's been there for quite some time. This might sound paranoid, but I'm concerned about the beer spoiling or autolysis occurring. In my defense, this is my first big "sit and wait."

 

[PseudoChef]

You really don't need yeast of the same style at all. That would just be a waste of money, in my opinion. Any yeast you add at bottling won't be giving any flavor.

If you're concerned, just use about 1/4 of a packet of dry yeast in the bottling bucket.

 

[brewt00l]

2.5 months? No need for fresh yeast unless you exposed the primary yeast to awful fermentation conditions.

 

[EinGutesBier]

2.5 months? No need for fresh yeast unless you exposed the primary yeast to awful fermentation conditions.

Well, I wouldn't say awful exactly, but the beer did get infected despite my best efforts to maintain sanitary conditions. That's why I was waiting so long to bottle the beer - I've been letting the infection run its course, with delicious results. I just figure that 2-2.5 months is about time to bottle it.

 

[Evan!]

You really don't need yeast of the same style at all. That would just be a waste of money, in my opinion. Any yeast you add at bottling won't be giving any flavor.

If you're concerned, just use about 1/4 of a packet of dry yeast in the bottling bucket.

Oddly enough, I was listening to the most recent BN Sunday Session whilst doing some stud framing last night, and they had "Cuda" from the BN forums on there and he had a whole rack of beers, and he had a few that were the same beer, but were refermented in the bottle with different strains, and all those numbskulls claimed that they could really tell the difference.

I don't know how true that really is, but they all swore 'twas the truth.

 

[ChuckMoney]

I'd avoid putting any yeast in it, rack to a bottling bucket then maybe just maybe leave a little beer ontop of the cake, give a tiny swirl to pick up just a little yeast, and mix that into your secondary, let it sit 20-30 mins, rack to a bottling bucket with your priming sugar in it, then bottle.

 

[zoebisch01]

I dunno, we have talked about this yeast before. This is a very weird strain. I had the same darn thing, I transferred to the keg and primed and it just sat there. I mean it off-gassed a little but the carbonation seems to be very very very slow. I imagine over time it would get up there, but I understand your concern with this strain. Very fickle.

 

[EinGutesBier]

Well, I could just put in some of my Munton's dry ale yeast, though I wasn't very impressed with it last time. However, the high gravity trappist yeast I used earlier was very good and I do have some on hand. Maybe I'll put some of that and some priming sugar in the beer. Anyone want to suggest an appropriate amount considering the volume of CO2 I need?

 

[PseudoChef]

Oddly enough, I was listening to the most recent BN Sunday Session whilst doing some stud framing last night, and they had "Cuda" from the BN forums on there and he had a whole rack of beers, and he had a few that were the same beer, but were refermented in the bottle with different strains, and all those numbskulls claimed that they could really tell the difference.

I don't know how true that really is, but they all swore 'twas the truth.

Sweet, I'll have to relisten. I love the show and the asshattery, but I usually zone out after about an hour into it, I'll need to load it onto the 'ole mp3 playa'.

Thanks.