Post Boil Hop Utilization in Beersmith

[Brewmegoodbeer]

Hello all,

I am going to soon experiment with hop stands. Beersmith gives a hop utilization factor of 50% when performing a hop stand at 194 deg F. My question is, does this hopstand also account for the further isomerization of the boiled hops that may have been added to a recipe? For example, if I do a 20 minute hop stand at 194 degrees F, that is 20 extra minutes that all my boiled hop additions isomerize in my wort. Recently, Beersmith came out with a box that you can check to "calculate boiled hops isomerization" post boil in the whirlpool in the equipment profile. When checking this box, there is also a "time above 84 deg celcius" in minutes box. Everytime I do a hop stand, do I have to change the time im doing the hop stand in this box in my equipment section?? Im confused on this.

 

[Dcpcooks]

I'm pretty sure you will need to adjust the time for each brew. As that time should be added to the boil additions to account for the extended contact time for all hops. Logic suggests he added that feature to account for that additional time. I can't see another reason why it would be needed.

I'd email him and ask, he's always been very quick to reply with answers in my experience.

 

[Oginme]

There is a check box in the equipment profile that allows the additional utilization of boil hops during the whirlpool/steep.

As far as I can tell from playing around with this setting, the calculation of additional boil hop utilization is based upon the whirlpool time up to the limit of the time you designate for time above 84C. The program then assumes that you will be chilling down immediately after the whirlpool/steep time. You don't need to update this setting each time, as it is really intended for 'no-chill' brewing calculations

 

[Brewmegoodbeer]

There is a check box in the equipment profile that allows the additional utilization of boil hops during the whirlpool/steep.

As far as I can tell from playing around with this setting, the calculation of additional boil hop utilization is based upon the whirlpool time up to the limit of the time you designate for time above 84C. The program then assumes that you will be chilling down immediately after the whirlpool/steep time. You don't need to update this setting each time, as it is really intended for 'no-chill' brewing calculations

So i would just need to check the box and keep it at zero minutes in the equipment profile (I chill my wort immediately if I am not doing a hop stand)? Would selecting a designated time to do a hop stand in my recipe now account for the boil hops or do I need to put this time in the equipment tab as well?

 

[Brewmegoodbeer]

I'm pretty sure you will need to adjust the time for each brew. As that time should be added to the boil additions to account for the extended contact time for all hops. Logic suggests he added that feature to account for that additional time. I can't see another reason why it would be needed.

I'd email him and ask, he's always been very quick to reply with answers in my experience.

I thought this as well until I played with a recipe that does not have a hopstand addition and it still accounted for that 10 minute whirlpool if selecting 10 minutes in the equipment tab. This leads me to think that putting any time assumes that you are doing this for every beer unless he is expecting us to go in and change this time for each recipe in the equipment tab. The equipment tab does not seem like the right place to put this.

 

[Dcpcooks]

I thought this as well until I played with a recipe that does not have a hopstand addition and it still accounted for that 10 minute whirlpool if selecting 10 minutes in the equipment tab. This leads me to think that putting any time assumes that you are doing this for every beer unless he is expecting us to go in and change this time for each recipe in the equipment tab. The equipment tab does not seem like the right place to put this.

Based on the update page on BeerSmith the addition allows for a better calculation of boil hop extraction during any additional timeframe added to the system. It is useful for whirlpool as well as no chill processes.

I do agree it may be better to have it elsewhere. In the equipment profile it could be easy to forget a whirlpool stand is plugged in. It makes sense if your brewing with a no chill method as you'd probably not be changing that very often as your probably not going to switch out.

It maybe best to just copy your profile and rename it 20 min hopstand. Then you can see it on the mobile app and select the correct profile accordingly on the fly.

 

[Brewmegoodbeer]

Based on the update page on BeerSmith the addition allows for a better calculation of boil hop extraction during any additional timeframe added to the system. It is useful for whirlpool as well as no chill processes.

I do agree it may be better to have it elsewhere. In the equipment profile it could be easy to forget a whirlpool stand is plugged in. It makes sense if your brewing with a no chill method as you'd probably not be changing that very often as your probably not going to switch out.

It maybe best to just copy your profile and rename it 20 min hopstand. Then you can see it on the mobile app and select the correct profile accordingly on the fly.

Great idea in terms of making another equipment profile titled "__ min hop stand". That will make it a bit easier. Cheers!

 

[Oginme]

So i would just need to check the box and keep it at zero minutes in the equipment profile (I chill my wort immediately if I am not doing a hop stand)? Would selecting a designated time to do a hop stand in my recipe now account for the boil hops or do I need to put this time in the equipment tab as well?

So, to set the additional hop utilization beyond boil, you check off the box and set the time of chilling to 84C to zero. The program will then calculate additional IBU utilization of the boil hops only based upon whirlpool additions.

The time set really only applies to no-chill or if you have a slower chilling method (such as a water batch) where there is a significant amount of time where the wort will remain above 84C.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Ugh one of the many reasons I hate the profile models.

Mash temp and whirlpool process should be a recipe variable, not tied to a profile.

 

[day_trippr]

BS2's hop management is pretty much fubar anyway. It seems to use the same utilization algorithm for everything except dry hops.
It needs an actual Whirlpool entry for sub-170°F hop additions, with the IBU contributions treated properly.

The Brewer's Friend recipe builder isn't 100% but it certainly handles IBUs better than BS2.

Also, there is absolutely zero wort/beer loss associated with hops in BS2.
Take any recipe and stick an extra 10 pounds of hops in there and be amazed that without changing the strike or sparge volumes you get exactly the same volume into the fermentor as without them...

Cheers!