Porter one week in fermenter, is it what its supposed to taste like?

[BrewnWKopperKat]

dependent on the style.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

No commercial brewery keeps beer in a fermenter for 4-6 weeks. 4-6 DAYS is typical. Learn how they do that.

Ouch.We're here talking about home brewing techniques. Can you tell us what you do?

 

[mac_1103]

1 - All this obsession with keeping air/oxygen away from fermenting beer is way over-rated. Great beer has been made for centuries with open fermentation.

Breweries that do open fermentations tend to be orders of magnitude cleaner than my basement, and I suspect that this was also true centuries ago.

2 - No commercial brewery keeps beer in a fermenter for 4-6 weeks. 4-6 DAYS is typical. Learn how they do that. LARGE yeast slurry pitch, lots of pure oxygen to get it started, temp control etc.

Commercial breweries also don't package right out of the fermenter after 4-6 days for the most part. Leaving beer in the FV for weeks is really just combining the commercial brewer's primary fermentation and bright tank functions, and it works just fine for many (most?) homebrewers.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Oxygen aside, nothing good can be gained by tasting a porter 7 days into fermentation. Go outside and play for a while. Let it ferment.

 

[jerrylotto]

After reviewing I'll the comments, I've decided that without a co2 tank, I will just give it more time like 3-4 weeks to make sure fermentation is over and also to let more sediments sink down the bottom and give the yeast more time to clean up it's byproducts

Two goals that are at odds there. If you want the yeast to clean up you want to raise the temperature a couple of degrees and if you want the sediments and yeast to settle you want to lower the temperature (cold crash). With lagers I generally do a diacetyl rest for 3 days or so 10° above fermentation temperature and then cold crash. Ales and porters generally fermented a high enough temperature that you don't need to do a diacetyl rest, so you should probably start lowering the temperature a couple of degrees per day if you have that level of control down to about 35 F

Go ahead and open ferment a NEIPA and let us know how it tastes.

I tend to agree with you actually, but as long as we can both agree it is dependent on the style.

Some beers can be great with open fermentation. Maybe even better. But not ALL beers.

I have had a great NEIPA that was open fermented. The key was to open ferment in a closed off space with little to no air movement. Clearly you don't want to be in the same room without an air tank to breath from - this was a commercial operation with about 50 open buckets going...

 

[Ali01]

I don't have enough equipment to do what most of you do
And no cold basement or dedicated fridge to control the temperature, just an air conditioner, my preferred yeast was s04 since I prefer my beers to have a little sweetness, but that's not an option here, I'm living in a hot zone, the lowest temp I can reach with my air conditioner is 22.
That's why I went with the us05
Now I think I should've gotten a kveik yeast, people say that stuff is awesome, they can ferment good beers at 20-40 with no off flavors!

 

[Ali01]

I appreciate all the replies and I apologize for my broken English.

 

[Langerz]

I have had a great NEIPA that was open fermented. The key was to open ferment in a closed off space with little to no air movement. Clearly you don't want to be in the same room without an air tank to breath from - this was a commercial operation with about 50 open buckets going...

If the space was closed off was it an open fermentation or a closed fermentation in a really big vessel with tons of headspace?

I don't have enough equipment to do what most of you do
And no cold basement or dedicated fridge to control the temperature, just an air conditioner, my preferred yeast was s04 since I prefer my beers to have a little sweetness, but that's not an option here, I'm living in a hot zone, the lowest temp I can reach with my air conditioner is 22.
That's why I went with the us05
Now I think I should've gotten a kveik yeast, people say that stuff is awesome, they can ferment good beers at 20-40 with no off flavors!

In the end I wouldn't worry too much. Be patient and you'll end up with good beer. I've increased my equipment quite a bit and still look back at that first batch with bare bones equipment and it was pretty dang good.

 

[user 338926]

I recently did a New Belgium clone of their "Fat Tire" Amber Ale. In a huge stand up freezer w/Stainless conical inside, but in a garage that was 50F (10C). Figured I didn't need to turn on the freezer/temp controller, it was plenty cold.

Uhh, Wrong...

OG of 1.062 (little high for this clone) and using US-04 it went to 77.5F (25.3C) all on it's own... Created a horrible alcohol aroma, and might get dumped out because of it. I never would have guessed it could raise the temp of the entire freezer in such a cold garage, but I guess they're insulated pretty well. Who knew, lol.

Admittedly, now another week later at 60F (15.5C) It's a little better, but still has a nose that makes you want to dump the glass. Doesn't taste terrible, but it's not what I was expecting.

Moral of the story is, your fermentation temp probably caused this, as did mine. This could be my second 10 gal batch getting dumped out in the last month. What stinks is that the equipment is again tied up with a batch of beer I'm trying to save by letting it sit. Where it should be in kegs and in the kegerator already and I should be making another batch of something else. I suppose I could keg it and do something else. But I so enjoy cleaning kegs, I hate to stick bad beer in 2 only to dump it and have to clean them again for nothing....

Mistakes are bad...

 

[homebeerbrewer]

Patience is the most important ingredient in any homebrew recipe!

^That is the quote of the day.

I leave most beers in the fermenter, untouched, for 4 weeks. Lagers, and high gravity beers are left longer. I was impatient at first too, but learned patience.

I've not had any experience with kveik yeast, but from what I hear, it may be what you need. US-05 is pretty tolerant of temps, but it does have its limits.

 

[mac_1103]

Moral of the story is, your fermentation temp probably caused this, as did mine.

Caused what? We don't know what his fermentation temperature was, and we don't know if his beer has any issues other than being under-attentuated.

 

[BongoYodeler]

I appreciate all the replies and I apologize for my broken English.

Your English is fine, no need to apologize.

 

[Langerz]

I recently did a New Belgium clone of their "Fat Tire" Amber Ale. In a huge stand up freezer w/Stainless conical inside, but in a garage that was 50F (10C). Figured I didn't need to turn on the freezer/temp controller, it was plenty cold.

Uhh, Wrong...

OG of 1.062 (little high for this clone) and using US-04 it went to 77.5F (25.3C) all on it's own... Created a horrible alcohol aroma, and might get dumped out because of it. I never would have guessed it could raise the temp of the entire freezer in such a cold garage, but I guess they're insulated pretty well. Who knew, lol.

Admittedly, now another week later at 60F (15.5C) It's a little better, but still has a nose that makes you want to dump the glass. Doesn't taste terrible, but it's not what I was expecting.

Moral of the story is, your fermentation temp probably caused this, as did mine. This could be my second 10 gal batch getting dumped out in the last month. What stinks is that the equipment is again tied up with a batch of beer I'm trying to save by letting it sit. Where it should be in kegs and in the kegerator already and I should be making another batch of something else. I suppose I could keg it and do something else. But I so enjoy cleaning kegs, I hate to stick bad beer in 2 only to dump it and have to clean them again for nothing....

Mistakes are bad...

Yeah a freezer will hold in heat as well as it will keep it out and fermentation will create quite a bit of heat. That said is 77.5F enough to wreck a batch? I let my fermentations all rise naturally at the start in my basement and commonly hit 72-73. I just did a recent Fat Tire clone that turned out great. Just curious if I'm that close to some edge.

 

[mac_1103]

Just curious if I'm that close to some edge.

Fermentis says "ideally 18-26°C (64.4-78.8°F)" for both S-04 and US-05.

People who have temperature-controlled fermentation chambers will probably say that the real optimal range is much narrower. People who don't have temperature-controlled fermentation chambers will probably say that the real optimal range is much wider.

 

[jerrylotto]

Mistakes are bad...

Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgment.

 

[Ali01]

I recently did a New Belgium clone of their "Fat Tire" Amber Ale. In a huge stand up freezer w/Stainless conical inside, but in a garage that was 50F (10C). Figured I didn't need to turn on the freezer/temp controller, it was plenty cold.

Uhh, Wrong...

OG of 1.062 (little high for this clone) and using US-04 it went to 77.5F (25.3C) all on it's own... Created a horrible alcohol aroma, and might get dumped out because of it. I never would have guessed it could raise the temp of the entire freezer in such a cold garage, but I guess they're insulated pretty well. Who knew, lol.

Admittedly, now another week later at 60F (15.5C) It's a little better, but still has a nose that makes you want to dump the glass. Doesn't taste terrible, but it's not what I was expecting.

Moral of the story is, your fermentation temp probably caused this, as did mine. This could be my second 10 gal batch getting dumped out in the last month. What stinks is that the equipment is again tied up with a batch of beer I'm trying to save by letting it sit. Where it should be in kegs and in the kegerator already and I should be making another batch of something else. I suppose I could keg it and do something else. But I so enjoy cleaning kegs, I hate to stick bad beer in 2 only to dump it and have to clean them again for nothing....

Mistakes are bad...

I understand, but my temperature never went above 25.5 c which is within the ideal range of the us05

 

[user 338926]

Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgment.

Well, I should certainly be one of the more experienced brewers then. Lol.

 

[user 338926]

Caused what? We don't know what his fermentation temperature was, and we don't know if his beer has any issues other than being under-attentuated.

He said in the OP about an alcohol taste, so I took that to mean fusel alcohol. Commonly caused by too high a ferm temp.

Fermentis says "ideally 18-26°C (64.4-78.8°F)" for both S-04 and US-05.

People who have temperature-controlled fermentation chambers will probably say that the real optimal range is much narrower. People who don't have temperature-controlled fermentation chambers will probably say that the real optimal range is much wider.

Fermentis US-04 says on the package 58F to 68F. Not sure where you're getting those numbers from, but perhaps there's different info at different sources, such as their website or old info.

 

[user 338926]

I understand, but my temperature never went above 25.5 c which is within the ideal range of the us05

I admit, I'm talking about US-04, but yours went 1F higher than mine and mine definitely has a problem... Just say'n. It's something to consider.

 

[mac_1103]

He said in the OP about an alcohol taste, so I took that to mean fusel alcohol. Commonly caused by too high a ferm temp.

He also said he tasted it at one week. It's a pretty big leap to assume he has fusel alcohols before the beer is finished.

Fermentis US-04 says on the package 58F to 68F. Not sure where you're getting those numbers from, but perhaps there's different info at different sources, such as their website or old info.

It's from their website, which also says that the information on older packages is incorrect.

 

[user 338926]

It's from their website, which also says that the information on older packages is incorrect.

Hmm, I'm talking about packages that came in the mail on Friday 4/28. Not very old...

Admittedly, it does say optimum temp (or words thereabouts) on the package. Maybe the website is giving acceptable temps, and the package tells optimums... It's hard to say. I can't imagine MoreBeer had old stuff laying around for ages. Especially considering it started up within an hour in my brew Sunday. (throw in dry fyi)

 

[mac_1103]

Hmm, I'm talking about packages that came in the mail on Friday 4/28. Not very old...

I suspect that the packaging is much older than the yeast inside. They might have years' worth of pre-printed packaging lying around and they've decided that there's no reason to scrap it since the info on the label is more conservative and the updated info is available online.

From Fermentis' website:

"Note that you could find different temperature recommendations on our 11,5grs sachets or on an old version of our TDS. In a logic of continuous improvement and thanks to the applied research, conducted by our R&D teams on our different yeast strains, we have recently updated our fermentation temperature recommendations to better serve brewers and homebrewers. For sustainable reasons, we made the choice to use our remaining stock of printed sachets before we re-print new ones, this is the reason why you could find differences on usage recommendations between sachets (or older versions of our TDS) and our website. We’ll make the adjustments on the sachets as soon as possible. In the meantime, don’t worry if you have already fermented your beers by following our previous usage recommendations, you’ll still obtain GREAT results!"

 

[user 338926]

I suspect that the packaging is much older than the yeast inside. They might have years' worth of pre-printed packaging lying around and they've decided that there's no reason to scrap it since the info on the label is more conservative and the updated info is available online

Nope, you are correct. The very latest packages that came on Friday have the new recommendation on them. But the ones I had received in the previous shipment a couple weeks ago, those still had the old recommendations and of course I don't need to read the package for the yeast I have used for 15 years, lol. I mean I had read the package and had just looked at the stuff this Sunday when I was brewing but admittedly I had picked up the package from the most recent Brew, not the brand new packages.

Color Me at least a little skeptical that they are now altering the recommended temperature for the yeast. After all these years, if the strain has changed that much then I guess it isn't Us04 anymore. Is this marketing because they figure it will sell better if it's okay at room temperatures?

I save every package with the brews with notes on the other sides of purchase date, or at least receive date. Here's the two I was looking at.

 

[mac_1103]

Color Me at least a little skeptical that they are now altering the recommended temperature for the yeast. After all these years, if the strain has changed that much then I guess it isn't Us04 anymore. Is this marketing because they figure it will sell better if it's okay at room temperatures?

They have in fact altered the recommended fermentation temperature range for their yeasts. You are, of course, free to be skeptical about why.

I don't think the strains have changed at all. If they had, you can bet your left arm that they'd be getting a metric crap ton of complaints, and that this forum would be filled with the same and plenty of detail about exactly what is different. It seems much more likely that the available data on fermentation at different temperatures is what has changed. It's also possible that improved quality control over the years now allows for more leeway in fermentation temps.

 

[user 338926]

Well there's no denying they have changed their recommendations. And it's pretty obvious I was not aware of that. That's pretty recent. I'm just not convinced they've actually changed the yeast.

 

[mac_1103]

Why would anyone think that they changed the yeast?

 

[tracer bullet]

I'm sure it's only the temperature recommendation that changed. FAR more likely than to change a strain that's so well known.

It's 2023, more input, more fermentations, more beers made and folks at the company decided that higher fermentation temps can make good beers after all and so they basically decided to say so.

That said I wish they'd provide some guidance - ferment low if you want X, ferment high if you want Y. We all know it won't be the same beer at each end of the temperature range. Not everyone has enough time or drinks enough to want to DIY it, would be nice to at least have an official head start on what to expect.

 

[Ali01]

Alright this is day 15 and there's still no progress in the taste, I'm giving it another week or two
If there is to be any progress, it should happen in two weeks right?
The aroma is mainly alcohol
I hope it's not fusel alcohols, it doesn't burn my throat or nose, and I haven't exceeded the ideal temps for this yeast, I pitched like 7-8 grams for my 7.5L batch. And I pitched at 22C.
this thermometer is close to the fermenter, it shows the room temp and it's very accurate, I've used it for incubation with %95 hatch rate, this is the temp in the past 6 days. It's the same as the previous days.
Back to the aroma, there's absolutely no malt aroma, the wort tastes and smelled good before fermentation
It was very malty
I'm not drawing any conclusions now since it's still too soon to make choices
The flavor, it's tart, and alcoholic, bitter and roasty.
There are quite a lot of particles in the sample which settle slowly to the bottom of the glass when left alone for a few minutes
What I'm hoping is, since the spigot was not meant for a fermentation vessel and is too close to the bottom (1cm above the sediments) it's sucking too much of the sediments and pouring it into the glass and that's what's causing the bad tastes, but the bad taste is still there when I drink the clearer sample

 

[VikeMan]

And I pitched at 22C.
this thermometer is close to the fermenter, it shows the room temp and it's very accurate, I've used it for incubation with %95 hatch rate, this is the temp in the past 6 days

What was the temperature of the wort/beer in the first few days of fermentation? You mentioned that it had reached as high as 25.5C. But was that 25.5C measured with this same thermometer that's "close to the fermenter," i.e. basically the ambient temperature? With an ambient temp of 25.5C, The temperature in the fermenter could easily reach 28C or even 31C, depending on several factors. Fermentation is exothermic.

 

[Ali01]

What was the temperature of the wort/beer in the first few days of fermentation? You mentioned that it had reached as high as 25.5C. But was that 25.5C measured with this same thermometer that's "close to the fermenter," i.e. basically the ambient temperature? With an ambient temp of 25.5C, The temperature in the fermenter could easily reach 28C or even 31C, depending on several factors. Fermentation is exothermic.

So that has been the issue here, yes the ambient temperature never reached 26c, I didnt put a thermometer in the wort after I added the yeast, cause people said the metal sensor of her thermometers will cause problems, but I kept touching the side of the vessel and I don't think it ever got that warm, the room is cold all the time, there's an AC on all the time, like if always felt cold when I touched the vessel