Caused what? We don't know what his fermentation temperature was, and we don't know if his beer has any issues other than being under-attentuated.
Porter one week in fermenter, is it what its supposed to taste like?
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Yeah a freezer will hold in heat as well as it will keep it out and fermentation will create quite a bit of heat. That said is 77.5F enough to wreck a batch? I let my fermentations all rise naturally at the start in my basement and commonly hit 72-73. I just did a recent Fat Tire clone that turned out great. Just curious if I'm that close to some edge.
Fermentis says "ideally 18-26°C (64.4-78.8°F)" for both S-04 and US-05.
People who have temperature-controlled fermentation chambers will probably say that the real optimal range is much narrower. People who don't have temperature-controlled fermentation chambers will probably say that the real optimal range is much wider.
jerrylotto
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Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgment.
I understand, but my temperature never went above 25.5 c which is within the ideal range of the us05
user 338926
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Well, I should certainly be one of the more experienced brewers then. Lol.
user 338926
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He said in the OP about an alcohol taste, so I took that to mean fusel alcohol. Commonly caused by too high a ferm temp.
Fermentis US-04 says on the package 58F to 68F. Not sure where you're getting those numbers from, but perhaps there's different info at different sources, such as their website or old info.Fermentis says "ideally 18-26°C (64.4-78.8°F)" for both S-04 and US-05.
People who have temperature-controlled fermentation chambers will probably say that the real optimal range is much narrower. People who don't have temperature-controlled fermentation chambers will probably say that the real optimal range is much wider.
user 338926
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I admit, I'm talking about US-04, but yours went 1F higher than mine and mine definitely has a problem... Just say'n. It's something to consider.
He also said he tasted it at one week. It's a pretty big leap to assume he has fusel alcohols before the beer is finished.
It's from their website, which also says that the information on older packages is incorrect.
user 338926
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Hmm, I'm talking about packages that came in the mail on Friday 4/28. Not very old...
Admittedly, it does say optimum temp (or words thereabouts) on the package. Maybe the website is giving acceptable temps, and the package tells optimums... It's hard to say. I can't imagine MoreBeer had old stuff laying around for ages. Especially considering it started up within an hour in my brew Sunday. (throw in dry fyi)
I suspect that the packaging is much older than the yeast inside. They might have years' worth of pre-printed packaging lying around and they've decided that there's no reason to scrap it since the info on the label is more conservative and the updated info is available online.
From Fermentis' website:
"Note that you could find different temperature recommendations on our 11,5grs sachets or on an old version of our TDS. In a logic of continuous improvement and thanks to the applied research, conducted by our R&D teams on our different yeast strains, we have recently updated our fermentation temperature recommendations to better serve brewers and homebrewers. For sustainable reasons, we made the choice to use our remaining stock of printed sachets before we re-print new ones, this is the reason why you could find differences on usage recommendations between sachets (or older versions of our TDS) and our website. We’ll make the adjustments on the sachets as soon as possible. In the meantime, don’t worry if you have already fermented your beers by following our previous usage recommendations, you’ll still obtain GREAT results!"
user 338926
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Nope, you are correct. The very latest packages that came on Friday have the new recommendation on them. But the ones I had received in the previous shipment a couple weeks ago, those still had the old recommendations and of course I don't need to read the package for the yeast I have used for 15 years, lol. I mean I had read the package and had just looked at the stuff this Sunday when I was brewing but admittedly I had picked up the package from the most recent Brew, not the brand new packages.
Color Me at least a little skeptical that they are now altering the recommended temperature for the yeast. After all these years, if the strain has changed that much then I guess it isn't Us04 anymore. Is this marketing because they figure it will sell better if it's okay at room temperatures?
I save every package with the brews with notes on the other sides of purchase date, or at least receive date. Here's the two I was looking at.
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They have in fact altered the recommended fermentation temperature range for their yeasts. You are, of course, free to be skeptical about why.
I don't think the strains have changed at all. If they had, you can bet your left arm that they'd be getting a metric crap ton of complaints, and that this forum would be filled with the same and plenty of detail about exactly what is different. It seems much more likely that the available data on fermentation at different temperatures is what has changed. It's also possible that improved quality control over the years now allows for more leeway in fermentation temps.
user 338926
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Well there's no denying they have changed their recommendations. And it's pretty obvious I was not aware of that. That's pretty recent. I'm just not convinced they've actually changed the yeast.
Why would anyone think that they changed the yeast?
I'm sure it's only the temperature recommendation that changed. FAR more likely than to change a strain that's so well known.
It's 2023, more input, more fermentations, more beers made and folks at the company decided that higher fermentation temps can make good beers after all and so they basically decided to say so.
That said I wish they'd provide some guidance - ferment low if you want X, ferment high if you want Y. We all know it won't be the same beer at each end of the temperature range. Not everyone has enough time or drinks enough to want to DIY it, would be nice to at least have an official head start on what to expect.
It's 2023, more input, more fermentations, more beers made and folks at the company decided that higher fermentation temps can make good beers after all and so they basically decided to say so.
That said I wish they'd provide some guidance - ferment low if you want X, ferment high if you want Y. We all know it won't be the same beer at each end of the temperature range. Not everyone has enough time or drinks enough to want to DIY it, would be nice to at least have an official head start on what to expect.
Alright this is day 15 and there's still no progress in the taste, I'm giving it another week or two
If there is to be any progress, it should happen in two weeks right?
The aroma is mainly alcohol
I hope it's not fusel alcohols, it doesn't burn my throat or nose, and I haven't exceeded the ideal temps for this yeast, I pitched like 7-8 grams for my 7.5L batch. And I pitched at 22C.
this thermometer is close to the fermenter, it shows the room temp and it's very accurate, I've used it for incubation with %95 hatch rate, this is the temp in the past 6 days. It's the same as the previous days.
Back to the aroma, there's absolutely no malt aroma, the wort tastes and smelled good before fermentation
It was very malty
I'm not drawing any conclusions now since it's still too soon to make choices
The flavor, it's tart, and alcoholic, bitter and roasty.
There are quite a lot of particles in the sample which settle slowly to the bottom of the glass when left alone for a few minutes
What I'm hoping is, since the spigot was not meant for a fermentation vessel and is too close to the bottom (1cm above the sediments) it's sucking too much of the sediments and pouring it into the glass and that's what's causing the bad tastes, but the bad taste is still there when I drink the clearer sample
If there is to be any progress, it should happen in two weeks right?
The aroma is mainly alcohol
I hope it's not fusel alcohols, it doesn't burn my throat or nose, and I haven't exceeded the ideal temps for this yeast, I pitched like 7-8 grams for my 7.5L batch. And I pitched at 22C.
this thermometer is close to the fermenter, it shows the room temp and it's very accurate, I've used it for incubation with %95 hatch rate, this is the temp in the past 6 days. It's the same as the previous days.
Back to the aroma, there's absolutely no malt aroma, the wort tastes and smelled good before fermentation
It was very malty
I'm not drawing any conclusions now since it's still too soon to make choices
The flavor, it's tart, and alcoholic, bitter and roasty.
There are quite a lot of particles in the sample which settle slowly to the bottom of the glass when left alone for a few minutes
What I'm hoping is, since the spigot was not meant for a fermentation vessel and is too close to the bottom (1cm above the sediments) it's sucking too much of the sediments and pouring it into the glass and that's what's causing the bad tastes, but the bad taste is still there when I drink the clearer sample
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VikeMan
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What was the temperature of the wort/beer in the first few days of fermentation? You mentioned that it had reached as high as 25.5C. But was that 25.5C measured with this same thermometer that's "close to the fermenter," i.e. basically the ambient temperature? With an ambient temp of 25.5C, The temperature in the fermenter could easily reach 28C or even 31C, depending on several factors. Fermentation is exothermic.
So that has been the issue here, yes the ambient temperature never reached 26c, I didnt put a thermometer in the wort after I added the yeast, cause people said the metal sensor of her thermometers will cause problems, but I kept touching the side of the vessel and I don't think it ever got that warm, the room is cold all the time, there's an AC on all the time, like if always felt cold when I touched the vessel
Maybe I missed it, but did you ever check the gravity again? Can you remind us what your OG and expected FG were?
I'm gonna do it next week, now I can't open the fermenter, I don't wanna add oxidation to the present issues of the beer
But my og was 1.047
After the boil it was 1.035, should've left it just the way it was, but I decided to add some table sugar to get it to the common 5 percent, maybe that's what caused the production of fusels? I feel a little burn now, when I drink the sample, but it's not that bad, it's just the alcohol flavor and aroma is dominant
After the boil it was 1.035, should've left it just the way it was, but I decided to add some table sugar to get it to the common 5 percent, maybe that's what caused the production of fusels? I feel a little burn now, when I drink the sample, but it's not that bad, it's just the alcohol flavor and aroma is dominant
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I didn't like my first porter either after having done many successful pale ales and IPA's. I'm not happy with my second porter either but it's better than the first.
Maybe the third time will be the charm!
Maybe the third time will be the charm!
Sorry I'm a little confused. If you can get a sample to taste why can't you check the gravity of the same sample. You have a spigot on your fermenter, right? You don't have to open the lid to get a couple of ounces to test.
You might want to take more interest in water chemistry.
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I firmly believe that's my issue. I'm making corrections one step and one batch at a time just to see what the improvement is.
The sample for tasting is way smaller than the sample needed for a gravity check, if I keep taking samples, the water will rise in the blow off tube and eventually reach the fermenter
I have an idea, but I'm not sure it's the right thing to do
I've heard that back sweetening reduces the tart and fusel alcohol flavor, I also read somewhere that crystal malt, if steeped at the end of the boil, will have an attention rating of 50 perfect, what if I boiled some crystal 120L and added it to the wort? Fermentation will start again and it'll be a bit sweeter and maltier, right?
I've heard that back sweetening reduces the tart and fusel alcohol flavor, I also read somewhere that crystal malt, if steeped at the end of the boil, will have an attention rating of 50 perfect, what if I boiled some crystal 120L and added it to the wort? Fermentation will start again and it'll be a bit sweeter and maltier, right?
Just let it sit. It's been in the fermenter for barely two weeks? Just forget about it for another two.
Even then, it'll be too early to judge what the final beer will be. Bottled at 4wks. Conditioned in the bottle for another 4wks. Another 4wks after that would probably be better. That's when you judge what changes need to be made for the next batch.
Even then, it'll be too early to judge what the final beer will be. Bottled at 4wks. Conditioned in the bottle for another 4wks. Another 4wks after that would probably be better. That's when you judge what changes need to be made for the next batch.
What are you floating your hydrometer in? I need 100 mL tops, which isn't much more than a taste.
I'd be wary of doing anything to just mask the flavor. If you really have significant amounts of fusels (and I'm not convinced you do) then you don't want to drink them. I don't know if restarting fermentation will let the yeast clean them up or not.
I'll find the recipe, it's on my computer on beer Smith, but I remember there was like 6 percent of crystal malt and 4 percent chocolate malt, black patent wasn't more than 3 percent
I'll let it age for another two weeks, if it didn't get better, I'll boil some crystal malt and add it to the fermenter and let the yeast eat away at the fermentable sugars, when it's done, that should leave some residual sweetness in the beer which reduces off flavors, right?
You spelled months incorrectly. Another 2 months will make a difference, two weeks may not be noticeable.
BrewnWKopperKat
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If one looks closer at the successful anecdotal stories involving fermenting at room temperature (no temperature control), factors for success include
- room with stable temperatures in the low 60Fs
- a slower fermenting strain (e.g. US-05)
eta: in my experience, S-04 ferments much faster than US-05. Fermenting without temperature control, with the room at 25C during the day, wort temperature of 28C is reasonable and 31C is possible.
Expect fusel alcohols in the beer.
With regard to published "ideally" temperature ranges for strains of yeast,
- Some yeast providers provide flavor profiles and ...
- ... include the conditions they used when doing the flavor profile tests which often
- ... includes wort fermentation temperature
from https://fermentis.com/en/product/safale-us-05/ said:
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I wanna ask your opinion on what I'm gonna do next
Some guy told me to move the beer into a secondary and let it age for another two weeks and he said it would improve the flavor, can I add spindasol too? It works like gelatin, I've used it on the sample and it really helps with the sedimentation, my concern is it might affect natural carbonation by getting too much yeast to sink to the bottom, will it?
Some guy told me to move the beer into a secondary and let it age for another two weeks and he said it would improve the flavor, can I add spindasol too? It works like gelatin, I've used it on the sample and it really helps with the sedimentation, my concern is it might affect natural carbonation by getting too much yeast to sink to the bottom, will it?
Just let it sit.
Even tho I did tons of research on how to brew, I wish I knew fermentation does generate some heat as there are reactions inside the yeast cells, breaking glucose molecules, releasing energy, this isn't something I didn't know, I just never thought about it, it never really occurred to my mind, now I know, fusels are the problem here... I won't give up just yet, I'll let it sit, but it'll be a huge disappointment, malted barley, brewers yeast, hops, these aren't easy to find and aren't cheap in my area
And the brewers yeast is illegal
Should've done more research
Like I studied more complex matters and didn't think about this very simple thing
And the brewers yeast is illegal
Should've done more research
Like I studied more complex matters and didn't think about this very simple thing
We've all been there, sad to say, but home brewing has a lot of steps, and a lot of things to know. The more you do it, the better you get.
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