Poll: Which Post do you Force Carb With?

[RJS]

Im going to do an experiment with my 8 QD's. Im going to change half to grey and keep half black. Than i will take two of the same pale or ambers and see if theres a difference in carbonation, clarity, etc...

 

[RJS]

I found the liquid side much quicker, however I WILL NOT Use the liquid side again! Let me preface that I was not thinking when I did the following, and I (stupidly) DO NOT have check valves on my manifold! I have a gas outlet between the regulator and the gas manifold, so I can easily purge kegs, bottles, etc.

The other day, shortly after I hooked up a newly kegged beer to the gas via the liquid post, I used the gas outlet to purge a carboy with CO2. Shortly after opening the valve on the outlet, beer started coming out of the gas tube purging my carboy! Yikes! If I hadn't had the gas connected to my liquid side, I wouldn't have had this issue.

So, I'd only recommend using the liquid side to force carb if you have check valves on your manifold.

Sorry to hear friend.

You know i always thought purging containers with gas first was odd.

 

[Yooper]

I have two ways to carb up my beer, after much trial and error. One is the good old fashioned easy way- stick my beer in the keg, and my keg in the kegerator with the other kegs and put it on the gas (12 psi). In about 7-10 days, it's good but improves for about three more days.

If I'm in a huge hurry, I stick it in the kegerator at 30 psi for 36 hours, then purge and reset to the same as the rest of the kegs (12 psi). It's ready the next day.

I will never shake again as I've had a few foamy cloudy beers by doing so and I hate that. It also tends to have a carbonic acid "bite" from doing that.

The thing is, even in 10 days in the kegerator, the beer may still be a bit cloudy so I still like to wait until the beer is clear. The beer I'm drinking at this moment was kegged on Saturday, and it's pretty clear (and well carbed) but not 100% there yet. But I was desperate for homebrew as I was out, and the beer is a hoppy APA that is very good young. The yeast strain I used (Denny's favorite) is not flocculant, though, and it takes about 10 days at fridge temps to really clear. It's still good, but it's really not as good as it's going to be in about4 more days. I can't imagine drinking this beer 20 minutes after shaking it! It would be very cloudy, and there would be sediment in it. That's not something I want in my beer.

 

[RJS]

I have two ways to carb up my beer, after much trial and error. One is the good old fashioned easy way- stick my beer in the keg, and my keg in the kegerator with the other kegs and put it on the gas (12 psi). In about 7-10 days, it's good but improves for about three more days.

If I'm in a huge hurry, I stick it in the kegerator at 30 psi for 36 hours, then purge and reset to the same as the rest of the kegs (12 psi). It's ready the next day.

I will never shake again as I've had a few foamy cloudy beers by doing so and I hate that. It also tends to have a carbonic acid "bite" from doing that.

The thing is, even in 10 days in the kegerator, the beer may still be a bit cloudy so I still like to wait until the beer is clear. The beer I'm drinking at this moment was kegged on Saturday, and it's pretty clear (and well carbed) but not 100% there yet. But I was desperate for homebrew as I was out, and the beer is a hoppy APA that is very good young. The yeast strain I used (Denny's favorite) is not flocculant, though, and it takes about 10 days at fridge temps to really clear. It's still good, but it's really not as good as it's going to be in about4 more days. I can't imagine drinking this beer 20 minutes after shaking it! It would be very cloudy, and there would be sediment in it. That's not something I want in my beer.

Let me first say im honored that you replied to one of my threads Yooper, thanks! Now a good word from Revvy and were set.

Second, i agree with everything you said. So far, the results seem obvious, whether you carb liquid or gas post doesn't really matter, its best to wait at least a week for decent carbonation, clarity, conditioning, etc... and drink.

Im not forgetting Bobby M's sticky, but 3 weeks set and forget is just not the law with session beers. Also, if your like most of us and do 2, 3 or 4 week primaries, the "conditioning" phase has clearly already begun before racking to keg.

 

[RDWHAHB]

With 40k posts it's not that much of an honor.

 

[JuanMoore]

The idea that forcing gas through the liquid diptube carbs your beer any faster is a myth. In fact, if you don't put pressurize the keg prior to connecting gas to the liquid post, it will actually force some of the residual CO2 out of solution and slow the carb process slightly.

If you're able to break the gas into super tiny bubbles through the use of something like an airstone, then pushing gas from the bottom of the keg will carb it much faster. The size of the bubbles coming through the liquid diptube however are so large that there's not appreciably more time or surface in contact with the gas than just using the gas diptube.

Since it takes extra time and effort, and make no difference in carbonation speed, I don't use the liquid post for carbonating, but to each their own. I have however bubbled gas through the liquid side while pulling the pressure relief valve to instantly degas overcarbonated kegs. It works like a charm.

well the theory is that when gas slowly trickles into the dip tube on the liquid side, it bubbles up from the bottom and agitates the whole column of beer on its way up. it doesnt work nearly as well as if you were using a carbonation stone, the bubbles are too big. however the fact that it causes the beer to move around some would probably promote faster carbonation. how much faster than just putting gas in from the top? probably not too much. it might not even be a noticable difference, but the theory makes sense at least.

The agitation actually knocks a tiny bit of CO2 out of solution. It's the increased surface area and contact time that's supposed to help speed the process. IMO whatever minor differences they make pretty much cancel each other out, and the beer carbonates at the same speed either way.

I'm thinking about getting one of the carbonating lids and giving it a ahot soon. If only for when I dknt have any carbonated kegs ready and a faucet runs dry.

I bought an extra SS airstone when they went on clearance at my LHBS. I connected it to the gas post on one of my corny lids with about 20" of silicone tubing to make my own carb lid. I've only used it a couple times since I'm a fan of letting my beers condition with the set and forget method, but it will carb up a beer nicely in just a couple of days without any worry about overcarbing.

 

[ArcaneXor]

I will never shake again as I've had a few foamy cloudy beers by doing so and I hate that. It also tends to have a carbonic acid "bite" from doing that.

I'll have to keep an eye on that. Most of my beers will eventually drop clear (but I also usually add Isinglass) and I find that the flavor tends to improve for day or three after shaking the CO2 into solution. I'll have to do a side-by-side at some point.

 

[RJS]

The idea that forcing gas through the liquid diptube carbs your beer any faster is a myth. In fact, if you don't put pressurize the keg prior to connecting gas to the liquid post, it will actually force some of the residual CO2 out of solution and slow the carb process slightly.

If you're able to break the gas into super tiny bubbles through the use of something like an airstone, then pushing gas from the bottom of the keg will carb it much faster. The size of the bubbles coming through the liquid diptube however are so large that there's not appreciably more time or surface in contact with the gas than just using the gas diptube.

Since it takes extra time and effort, and make no difference in carbonation speed, I don't use the liquid post for carbonating, but to each their own. I have however bubbled gas through the liquid side while pulling the pressure relief valve to instantly degas overcarbonated kegs. It works like a charm.




The agitation actually knocks a tiny bit of CO2 out of solution. It's the increased surface area and contact time that's supposed to help speed the process. IMO whatever minor differences they make pretty much cancel each other out, and the beer carbonates at the same speed either way.




I bought an extra SS airstone when they went on clearance at my LHBS. I connected it to the gas post on one of my corny lids with about 20" of silicone tubing to make my own carb lid. I've only used it a couple times since I'm a fan of letting my beers condition with the set and forget method, but it will carb up a beer nicely in just a couple of days without any worry about overcarbing.

Excellent reply

 

[RJS]

With 40k posts it's not that much of an honor.

Americans...no respect.

 

[RJS]

92% say Gas.

8% say liquid.

So close, hard to say who will come out with this one...

 

[RJS]

I think we did it folks, thanks for the input.

 

[RJS]

Does one method over the other effect head retention and stability?

 

[audger]

The agitation actually knocks a tiny bit of CO2 out of solution.

if the keg is pressurized, nothing would be knocked out as there would be no where for it to go. however i do agree with:

"if you don't put pressurize the keg prior to connecting gas to the liquid post, it will actually force some of the residual CO2 out of solution and slow the carb process slightly." (ever so slightly, but yes)

Does one method over the other effect head retention and stability?

definately not

 

[cheezydemon3]

For simplicity, safety, forgetfulproof ease...

I jack it up to 53PSI (via the gas side, I don't think it would make a difference though so why mess with it) disconnect gas (and tap for that matter) and let it sit cold for at least 2 days.

Connect 14 PSI any time after the first 48 hours, and it carbs nicely within a few hours.

Start cold of course.

 

[barrooze]

Americans...no respect.

I still don't understand this post....

 

[RJS]

I wouldn't worry about it

I still don't understand this post....

 

[RJS]

Oh!, the odds are changing people, more liquid carb brewers are coming out, fearless of the naysayers. We have 10% of the market now.

 

[JuanMoore]

if the keg is pressurized, nothing would be knocked out as there would be no where for it to go. however i do agree with:

"if you don't put pressurize the keg prior to connecting gas to the liquid post, it will actually force some of the residual CO2 out of solution and slow the carb process slightly." (ever so slightly, but yes)

Even under pressure some gas gets knocked out of solution when it's agitated, but like I said, it's minuscule amounts we're talking about. Where does it go? Into the headspace, increasing the headspace pressure ever so slightly. Don't believe me? Take a fully carbed beer that's at equilibrium, remove it from the gas, and connect a pressure gauge (or spunding valve set to something at least a few PSI higher than the headspace pressure). Shake the keg to agitate the beer, and watch as the gas coming out of solution causes the pressure to increase. You could also do this with your CO2 regulator by simply turning off the gas at the tank, but then you'd also have to remove any check valves first so that the regulator would read the pressure difference, and without check valves you'd need to be very careful not to get beer into the regulator through the gas line.

A less conclusive test can be done with 2 soda bottles (if we assume that they both have the same temp and carb level, and therefore the same headspace pressure). Very very slowly crack the cap open on one bottle, stopping as soon as you hear the tiniest hint of a hiss. Pay attention to how much gas escapes. Then shake the second bottle up, and do the same thing. The bottle that was shaken up will have a lot more gas escaping, because the headspace pressure has been increased. If you open the shaken up bottle too suddenly, the additional pressure will try to escape so violently that the pressure differential will cause the soda to foam.

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter though. Any changes in carbonation in either direction from the agitation or from the increased surface area in contact with the gas are miniscule, and likely act to cancel each other out. What I think we can all agree on, is that carbing through the liquid dip-tube without an airstone attached isn't going to carb the beer appreciably faster (or slower).

 

[Spartangreen]

I use both methods (one of my pin locks doesn't have a relief valve) so I carb from the liquid side so I can relieve a couple of times during force carbing.
Both methods carb the beer up at the same rate.

 

[Beardog]

I just talked with a Pro brewer at a local brewpub and he told me he always connects the CO2 to the liquid side 30 PSI for 48 hours and then reattaches it to the gas side and then sets the PSI to serving volume for the particular style. He told me that way the gas goes down the dip tube to the bottom of the keg and gas bubbles float up to top. Never a bad beer!

 

[RJS]

I just talked with a Pro brewer at a local brewpub and he told me he always connects the CO2 to the liquid side 30 PSI for 48 hours and then reattaches it to the gas side and then sets the PSI to serving volume for the particular style. He told me that way the gas goes down the dip tube to the bottom of the keg and gas bubbles float up to top. Never a bad beer!

Very interesting. Thanks for the contribution

 

[wailingguitar]

Gas post, I have CO2 stones on all my serving kegs.

 

[RJS]

Switched to gas post carbing a few years ago, since this thread started i suppose. Works well for us