Poll: Do you use a secondary?

[ArcaneXor]

I rarely secondary "on purpose", but essentially my kegs fulfill the same purpose - bulk-aging. I also oak and dry-hop in the kegs.

 

[Walker]

as you can see, we are the majority... over 65% of us use a long primary.

Devil's advocate, but watch out how you interpret the numbers.

Nowhere in the options was it specified that it was a "long" primary. There are a lot of people, especially beginners, who probably just ferment for 2 weeks and bottle the stuff. No secondary, and no long primary. I would count that as a third group completely.

And regardless... why does it even matter? Do you need to be on the "right" side here?

Can't we all just make beer and be happy about it? I've never quite understood the evangelist types that feel it's necessary to make others do it the same way that they do.

 

[JonK331]

So right now, assuming that answers 1,3 and 4 are pretty much the same, the score is 58 don't "usually" secondary and 21 "always" secondary. That is 73.4% who don't.

 

[electrichead]

I secondary all of my batches. I started this because of the "traditional thinking" I learned by and am not big on change. I am however planning on giving the longer primary a try on one or two batches this year just to see if the results vary from the previous secondary fermented versions.

 

[cheier]

I do secondary as a factor of both convenience and pipelining. I have 3 carboys but one primary bucket. The bucket is huge, and 23L only fills it about half way. Any krausen that has formed thus far hasn't blown any tops and I'm not interested in blow off tubes or anything like that. After about a week or so in the bucket, I'll send it to the carboy to finish settling out and aging. After a couple weeks if I so choose, I might throw in some gelatin and crash cool it for a few days to finish clearing it up.

Once I get the beer in a carboy, I get another one going in the bucket after cleaning it up. Generally I use secondary to try and let more yeast flocculate and settle so I don't have to filter, and the gelatin takes it that extra step further. When I keg, I have very minimal sediment left over at the bottom, which is generally what I'm aiming for.

So ya, I secondary. Initially because that was simply the way it was, but now because I prefer it when I have such a big bucket. I've tried to primary in a carboy, but I didn't like having to have a blowoff tube. Since at the time, I was fermenting in my kitchen pantry, my wife didn't like having a small bucket of water in there collecting krausen.

 

[Golddiggie]

For my first two brews I used primary and secondary. While brew #3 was still in primary, I started reading the threads about just going for a long primary. I'm giving that a shot with one brew right now (plus one I started last weekend, so batches 4 and 5). I racked #3 to secondary to age on top of a split, scraped and soaked (in bourbon) vanilla bean. I'm letting that go at least a week before testing it. I'll see how it is during week #2, and decide if I need more bean or if it's good.

Brew #4 is almost 3 weeks in primary. Planning on testing it in another day or two to see where it's at. Plan on taking readings every day or two until I get at least two consecutive readings that are identical.

I'm considering racking to another bucket as an interim step, for just a few hours (or a day) to let anything that got picked up when transferring it out of primary to settle to the bottom. Although since I'm doing better with racking now, I might just go direct into the bottling bucket.

I am thinking about getting some additional primaries so that it's less of an issue for me. I really hate using the bucket primary, since you cannot tell what's going on inside and getting samples is far more trouble than with a carboy.

So to the point of the poll, I've used them so far, but might not in the future, except when aging over flavor elements (wood, vanilla, etc.)...

 

[Lodovico]

Devil's advocate, but watch out how you interpret the numbers.

Nowhere in the options was it specified that it was a "long" primary. There are a lot of people, especially beginners, who probably just ferment for 2 weeks and bottle the stuff. No secondary, and no long primary. I would count that as a third group completely.

And regardless... why does it even matter? Do you need to be on the "right" side here?

Can't we all just make beer and be happy about it? I've never quite understood the evangelist types that feel it's necessary to make others do it the same way that they do.

I would also argue the fact that "beginners" ferment for 2 weeks and then package. The vast majority of ales under 1.060 are ready to be bottled or kegged after 14 days. Also in the Jamil podcast on fermentation, he claims that the majority of his beers were bottled with no longer than 2 weeks in primary.

I know several great brewers that allow fermentation to finish out after a week and then give it a week to clean up and they brew excellent, award winning beer.

There are obviously styles where this isn't the case. I'm not brewing an Old Ale or a Tripel and bottling after 14 days but anything under 1.060, absolutely.

 

[sjlammer]

I would say that yes it is your choice whether you want to long primary, or not.

All i can say is, give it a chance. my guess is that you make beer that is at least as good you make with a secondary.... then i would do a little pro/con analysis.... if the beer is essentially the same (no worse) a long primary means less work.

If you find that for some reason you have autolysis, then by all means, go back.

Also, make sure you pitch the proper amount of yeast

 

[davesrose]

So right now, assuming that answers 1,3 and 4 are pretty much the same, the score is 58 don't "usually" secondary and 21 "always" secondary. That is 73.4% who don't.

Well then you also have people like me who would say 2, 3, and 4 are pretty much the same because that's the styles I brew: I'm usually brewing a pale ale (that I dry hop and crash cool in the secondary), and then a strong stout (I'm brewing up an imperial coffee oatmeal stout at the moment, and will be adding coffee in the secondary). I've found most my <1.060 beers seem cleaned up in less then 2 weeks in primary. If I need to dry hop, I'll rack to secondary then. If I'm not, I might wait a few days before adding to secondary to crash cool in the fridge. This imperial coffee oatmeal stout is going to be one of the only beers that I've leaved in the primary for over 3 weeks (it's 11.5 ABV). I also don't think there's a "set" time that should be prescribed about how long to primary. As my techniques have improved, I've found my attenuation has both improved and gotten faster...it's also rare for me to get off flavors now. I feel safer going by my refractometer readings and tasting the beer to decide when to rack a particular beer.

 

[ceannt]

I still use the plastic buckets I picked up back in the mid 80's..... I primary for around 5 or 6 weeks, rousing the yeast every week or so (after the first 2 weeks).

 

[shoestealer17]

How long can the yest survive without adding more sugar for them to feed on?

 

[sjlammer]

For a long time, they go dormant when they don't have feed.

I don't know the exact length of time, but think of it this way. whitelabs says that you should use their yeast within 6 months of production for best results. obviously a fermentation vessel and a sterile yeast vial are two separate entities, but the point I am trying to make is that the yeast are fairly robust.

 

[shoestealer17]

I guess the way I thought was not the popular way anymore. I now think that the secondary is not a necessity, however ill still use one if I have time to help clear the beer or free up the primary

 

[CidahMastah]

I am a little late on this, but I would say the poll, while interesting doesn't cover some innate factors such as available equipment, brew schedule and yeast harvesting. For clarity alone, I would secondary everytime but I don't have enough equipment (you can't deny doing a secondary helps with faster clarity). I only have 4 kegs and I can't keep up with my carboys spitting out beers (not to mention my carbed ciders). I am finally slowing down a bit because I have built up a pipeline of variety so that will now change back to what I did with my first home brews.

I will now be:
1. primary 3 weeks
2. secondary 2 weeks
3. Carbing 1 week

Before I wanted to get beer on tap so I had less patience, I threw it in the kegs and carbed after two weeks in the secondary. Yeah it cleared, but I was drinking sediment beer for a while with each keg (I don't mind). However if I was going to give it to friends or to a competition I would want it to look sharp.

 

[r8rphan]

This whole topic is further complicated by the fact that it seems there is no consensus as to what the terms primary and secondary even mean...

My understanding of 'primary' is the period of 'vigorous fermentation' where the wort is boiling, the krausen has built up and lots of CO2 is being created.. After a few days, when the krausen falls, and the yeast is in 'cleanup mode' the CO2 production has slowed, and 95% of the conversion has taken place, then the beer is in 'secondary fermentation'...

Yet others, feel the terms have to do with the initial 2-3 weeks of fermentation (they call this primary), and then transferring to a keg (or bottling) and then aging (they call this secondary)

Then there are variations of the two, and even other meanings...

So it gets confusing for me when I ask questions on this subject, because people use the terms loosely, and I'm never really sure what they mean when they use them... ie, if we're even talking apples and apples...

It would be nice if we could start from a baseline standard meaning for the terms involved before we get into these discussions... They'd have a lot more meaning.. for me anyways... It seems that every time I ask a question this subject, I end up more confused by the answers than when I started because the terms involved have different meanings to different people...

I have to make a decision on this subject in the next 24-48 hrs.. and once again, I have no idea what the consequences of either choice are...

 

[CidahMastah]

Good call r8rphan. Didn't even realize that I was doing that myself. I was definitely referring to primary fermentor, secondary fermentor v.s. primary fermentation versus secondary fermenation.

For me, I would sit out primary and secondary fermentation in my primary fermentor (3 weeks). Then "bulk age" in a secondary fermentor (2 weeks), then carbonate in a keg (1 week).

The pole is poorly defined, therefore we have poor results to draw conclusions from!

 

[shoestealer17]

The pole is poorly defined, therefore we have poor results to draw conclusions from!

The poll says use a secondary as in a secondary vessel. I was just trying to get a general feel for what people were doing. I drew the conclusion from the poll that a secondary vessel is not used as often as it use to be, under the "old" way of thinking, getting the beer off the yeast trub ect. That was all I was after

I would be interested to see a more detailed poll if you care to make one on the specifics you are looking for.

 

[Brewpastor]

to each their own.

RDWHAHB

 

[shoestealer17]

RDWHAHB

I just searched for what that means, instead of asking. Haha, the post out there are numerous and funny.
Maybe i found an answer that was correct, but who knows? There were about 100 interpretations, most of them jokes though.
Im wondering what you mean when u say RDWHAHB

 

[Brewpastor]

Charlie said it best although different occasions call for different variations. But in this case I meant the original:

Relax, don't worry, have a home brew.

 

[shoestealer17]

haha, thats what I was thinking, just makin sure though

 

[CidahMastah]

I would be interested to see a more detailed poll if you care to make one on the specifics you are looking for.

I spelled poll wrong haha "pole"

I apologize, I see what you are going after with your poll and I get it. Basically, I think there are lots of variations. However, when in a hurry, or equipment is short, that usually dictates what I must do (I still haven't had to dump beer yet). I think the most important is 2-3weeks in a primary fermentor - IMHO. Secondary is a frill

No disrespect meant man. I personally, have the jist of what people do, and that is good enough for me. I think it is a personal choice, but everyone should know they are stupid if they don't do it my way!!!....

hahah

Just kidding

+1 to brewpaster - too much talking, not enough drinking
My belly is my secondary tonight

 

[Clann]

used my better bottle just a couple weeksago to bulk age but most times I just use it as an extra primary