Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

[bracconiere]

Great Electric Airplane Race

thanks for the viewing suggestion.

i did have my usual thought watching it though, this just seems like people that don't want to get blood on their own hands.....

 

[NickTheGreat]

Cellulose ethanol is a thing, it's just harder and more expensive to make than the stuff from from corn grain.

 

[Bilsch]

Cellulose ethanol is a thing, it's just harder and more expensive to make than the stuff from from corn grain.

And both of those are more expensive than pumping the dead dino juice from the ground which is considerably more costly than running on electrons from any fuel source.
(Except hydrogen)

 

[passedpawn]

Bolts are going through a thing. A problem developed with 9 hundredths of a percent of Bolt batteries, so they've halted production while they replace all the batteries in a recall.

Yea, the remedy for current owners isn't pretty, but not as bad as risking a house fire.

 

[passedpawn]

i'm betting you ethanol is the future, not electric...

nuclear. So much depends on it, from powering our cities to powering space travel. That's where we need the breakthroughs. Just a safe little nuclear-powered sterling engine in the trunk.

 

[Ogilthorpe2]

If it's that difficult to get energy out of something with fairly simple carbohydrates, how difficult would it be to get energy out of cellulose.



Corn stalks have a variety of uses. In a lot of dairy &/or beef operations they're chopped up with the corn, go through anaerobic fermentation, and are fed to the cattle.

They're also made into round bales. On my family's farm, we'd mostly use these for cattle bedding. When we'd run short of silage in the late summer, and if the previous year's bales were still in good shape, we'd occasionally just put a bale in the feeder every few days and they'd eat those, stretching our supply of silage.

Cattle are supposed to eat grass, not corn or it’s remnants.

 

[bracconiere]

nuclear. So much depends on it, from powering our cities to powering space travel. That's where we need the breakthroughs. Just a safe little nuclear-powered sterling engine in the trunk.

anti-matter....how many giga watts did the enterprise generate? or a lightening bolt, according to back to the future....which i would point out, eventually ran on beer also! (in the sequel anyway)

 

[bracconiere]

Cattle are supposed to eat grass, not corn or it’s remnants.

how true, unless you're trying to make them fat and die early....just like we're supposed to eat seeds, as far as i can tell....

 

[Kent88]

Yea, the remedy for current owners isn't pretty, but not as bad as risking a house fire.

When it was 9 hundredths of a percent of batteries that had issues, I would debate whether it was risky to park a vehicle in the garage.

But GM's risk management team decided that it was better to risk temporary consumer angst.

Had I gone with a Bolt instead of a Volt (which I seriously considered) I wouldn't have a huge problem with this. The inconveniences would have been setting up an appointment to get the battery dealt with and needing a loaner vehicle for a while. Parking outside? I wouldn't be all that diligent about that.

Barring a disaster (like a collision or loss of income) I still plan on replacing the Volt with a true BEV when it hits my usual threshold for number of miles on a vehicle. And if they're still making Bolt EUVs at the time, that will be among the vehicles I consider.

 

[bracconiere]

your hands aren't blood free, and there's significant loss transmiting the electrons over a distance....

edit: i mean honestly, when you think about it.....you gotta figure out how to turn an electric motor, to generate the power then transfer THAT, to you...and there's losses involved over the lines....just so electric car people can feel clean?

 

[Bilsch]

your hands aren't blood free, and there's significant loss transmit the electrons over distance....

Line losses due to transmission are roughly 4% falling from an average of 6% which was the norm in the latter part of the 20’th century.
Someone hasn’t been doing his homework.

 

[bracconiere]

Someone hasn’t been doing his homework.

maybe not...just someone that is dreading having to plug my car in to go to the store......i don't even like it when i have to charge my battery, because i haven't driven in a few weeks...to get the thing to start..


and if you look at that PDF, most of kent's power is generated, by burning coal...to turn a electric motor, generates power...and then he FEELs clean because it's electricity now! all good! like the red stuff in a steak is 'juice'...or throwing a crab or lobster in boiling water is just 'clean air escaping them'....


edit: and i know, there's all kinds of ways to turn an electric motor, and trade that for money....but i haven't any that are PC...

edit #2: so it's like a bike with a chain of electrons......one sproket, goes to another....but it's still takes fossil fuel...and just because your sitting over the back whell and someone else is peddling, it's still happening....

 

[Ogilthorpe2]

maybe not...just someone that is dreading having to plug my car in to go to the store......i don't even like it when i have to charge my battery, because i haven't driven in a few weeks...to get the thing to start..


and if you look at that PDF, most of kent's power is generated, by burning coal...to turn a electric motor, generates power...and then he FEELs clean because it's electricity now! all good! like the red stuff in a steak is 'juice'...or throwing a crab or lobster in boiling water is just 'clean air escaping them'....

EV’s are not as clean as you’d hope, but the MPG equivalence of using coal to generate and then charge an EV is still leaps and bounds ahead of burning gas in your car. The bigger question is the cleanliness of mining/processing and the recycling/disposing of the metals used to manufacture batteries. I’m not yet convinced that batteries are the ultimate answer. I wouldn’t count hydrogen fuel cells out just yet, especially for Aviation/Railway/Shipping/Trucking applications where supply infrastructure would be easier to establish.

 

[bracconiere]

Railway

damn, never thought about that...in a serious way...nuclear ACTUALLY probably would be viable?

https://www.ag.ndsu.edu/energy/biofuels/energy-briefs/history-of-ethanol-production-and-policy
if you read the first few lines...cars started out burning ethanol, and like an old fashion trend. my bet is what was old will be new again...


Ethanol’s first use was to power an engine in 1826, and in 1876, Nicolaus Otto, the inventor of the modern four-cycle internal combustion engine, used ethanol to power an early engine. Ethanol also was used as a lighting fuel in the 1850s, but its use curtailed when it was taxed as liquor to help pay for the Civil War

 

[Bilsch]

EV’s are not as clean as you’d hope, but the MPG equivalence of using coal to generate and then charge an EV is still leaps and bounds ahead of burning gas in your car. The bigger question is the cleanliness of mining/processing and the recycling/disposing of the metals used to manufacture batteries. I’m not yet convinced that batteries are the ultimate answer. I wouldn’t count hydrogen fuel cells out just yet, especially for Aviation/Railway/Shipping/Trucking applications where supply infrastructure would be easier to establish.

I hear that argument a lot but just look at the environmental disasters that are caused by drilling for unrenewable oil as well as the geopolitical messes and war it causes. Conversely there isn’t anything in an EV battery that is un-recyclable. Hydrogen’s problem as an energy storage medium is it is half as efficient as just storing and using directly the electricity used to make the H2 in the first place. Not to mention all the other associated problems of high pressure or cryogenic storage, hydrogen embrittlement etc.

 

[doug293cz]

nuclear. So much depends on it, from powering our cities to powering space travel. That's where we need the breakthroughs. Just a safe little nuclear-powered sterling engine in the trunk.

Nuclear won't go anywhere until they come up with a permanent solution for dealing with the waste. Also, when things go wrong, they go really wrong - Three Mile Island, Fukushima, Chernobyl ...

Brew on

 

[passedpawn]

Nuclear won't go anywhere until they come up with a permanent solution for dealing with the waste. Also, when things go wrong, they go really wrong - Three Mile Island, Fukushima, Chernobyl ...

Brew on

Like I said, there's still some work to do

 

[Bilsch]

Nuclear won't go anywhere until they come up with a permanent solution for dealing with the waste.

We've known how to make fast neutron reactors since the 50's that are capable of consuming actinides (the really bad stuff with long half lives) and are more fuel efficient. There were at least 20 examples of FNR built and run over the years. Fast spectrum molten salt reactors not only burn down their own waste but can also be fueled with the stockpiles of nuclear waste we have already generated.

There are proven tested ways to produce nuclear power with very little waste, we just need the will to do it.

 

[doug293cz]

We've known how to make fast neutron reactors since the 50's that are capable of consuming actinides (the really bad stuff with long half lives) and are more fuel efficient. There were at least 20 examples of FNR built and run over the years. Fast spectrum molten salt reactors not only burn down their own waste but can also be fueled with the stockpiles of nuclear waste we have already generated.

There are proven tested ways to produce nuclear power with very little waste, we just need the will to do it.

Years ago I had a professor who had worked on molten salt reactors. In theory, they look very good, but my prof said that they hadn't been able to develop alloys that would stand up to the molten salt over long periods of time. Has this situation changed?

Brew on

 

[Bilsch]

Years ago I had a professor who had worked on molten salt reactors. In theory, they look very good, but my prof said that they hadn't been able to develop alloys that would stand up to the molten salt over long periods of time. Has this situation changed?

I also get the impression molten salt reactors could be ways off however fast neutron reactors are already here. Currently China, Russia and India have them in operation.

 

[NickTheGreat]

Cattle are supposed to eat grass, not corn or it’s remnants.

Corn is a grass, botanically speaking . . .

 

[Ogilthorpe2]

Corn is a grass, botanically speaking . . .

Yes, but they don’t feed the grassy part to cows, only the seeds. As soon as I posted I knew someone was likely to bring that up.

 

[Kent88]

Yes, but they don’t feed the grassy part to cows, only the seeds.

I'm sorry, but that's horse-pucky.

Feeding straight grain to ruminants is a bad idea, and farmers know that. If they don't know that, they won't be raising cattle for long.

There is a saying with cattle nutritionists: you don't feed the cow, you feed the rumen. The rumen bacteria can't handle straight corn without expensive feed additives. If you ignore the demands of the rumen bacteria and don't use that additive, but still decide to cut roughage out of their diet, you can end up giving a cow(or bull, or steer, etc) a condition called acidosis.

Roughage is still an important part of cattle's diet, because without it the rumen gets really messed up and can kill them.

 

[Kent88]

The iconic silver bullet Airstream camping trailer has returned as a remote-controlled EV

 

[McMullan]

The only thing EVs do is reduce local air pollution. Vehicles are made from so much more than a gasoline tank or a battery. The 'debate' is fundamentally flawed. Private car ownership for all isn't sustainable. If you live in the city you don't need to own a car. Rent one when you do. Private car ownership is all about redundant economics that translate into very little for the vast majority of us.

 

[Broothru]

The iconic silver bullet Airstream camping trailer has returned as a remote-controlled EV

That RV-EV is just about the coolest thing I've seen in some time, as well as something I've wanted to have for almost as long. SWMBO'd and I are on our third Class B+ sized motorhome and are looking for #4. The first three have been upbuilds from Mercedes Sprinter diesels cutaway chassis and have served us exceedingly well for nearly a quarter of 1,000,000 miles, through all 48 of the contiguous States and 5 Canadian Provinces. At 16 mpg, I could have saved 15,625 gallons of diesel x $3.30/gal = $51,562.50 over the 9 years we've been RVing. Three hundred miles is the maximum we usually target for a day's worth of driving, and virtually everywhere we stop has 50 amp/240V electrical hookup included in the camping fee.

Sadly, the Thor 'concept' vehicle is vaporware for the time being. By the time it eventually reaches the mass marketplace (and I predict it will) my travelin' days will likely be over. That RV sure looks like it'd be a mighty sweet ride.

 

[Kent88]

The only thing EVs do is reduce local air pollution. Vehicles are made from so much more than a gasoline tank or a battery. The 'debate' is fundamentally flawed. Private car ownership for all isn't sustainable. If you live in the city you don't need to own a car. Rent one when you do. Private car ownership is all about redundant economics that translate into very little for the vast majority of us.

They don't just reduce local air pollution. But the big thing I took from this is that we should be improving mass transportation. I can get behind that.

 

[McMullan]

They don't just reduce local air pollution. But the big thing I took from this is that we should be improving mass transportation. I can get behind that.

Yep, that's all they do. Reduce fossil-fuel based air pollution in urban environments. 'EV' is a scam to prop up private car ownership - to profiteer and stuff shareholders silly mainly.

 

[Kent88]

Not all of the energy in the grid comes from fossil fuels. A small but growing segment comes from clean renewables.

Edit: this is worth a watch

 

[Ogilthorpe2]