Hopefully "The Grid" will stand up to all this super-charging... 
Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?
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Charging for the 9th and final time as I type this. All 9 breaks were appreciated. I left the Tampa Bay area at 8:15PM last night and won’t be home for another hour or so.
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What's the used car market like these days for something like a Bolt?
It’s gone nuts.
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Ok, so not a good time to buy. I know the bottom dropped out of the used car market since interest rate hikes but I guess not for EVs.It’s gone nuts.
I saw my first Rivian in the wild yesterday...
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I really like those. I'm not sold on EV's yet, but in a few years when I'm ready for a new truck . . .
I voted "I plan to" mostly so I can feel slightly less silly ask whether or not there's a "general" cars thread or not on HBT? My google-fu is failing me.
madscientist451
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I was on a 5 hour road trip yesterday. Pulled into the rest area for bathroom break, and there's a Tesla at the charging station. I wondered how long he was going to be sitting there and how much does the charging cost? Google says its $20-$25 to add 250 miles of range....about $5 cheaper than running my 30mpg gasoline car? Its less expensive to charge at home, but states will soon add a road tax for electric cars to make up for not paying gasoline tax.
What if electric cars get more popular and you then have to wait in line to get charged?
A Tesla is like $50K?
Here in PA, the sales tax alone on that is $3K. Add to that wiring a fast charger at the house, how much is that?
Yes, there are less expensive electric cars, but their limited range isn't going to work for me.
A quick google search shows that for a fast charger you need 240V and 50 amp breaker, similar to adding a dryer or electric stove. So for some houses that's going to mean a service upgrade, or maybe just a Sub-panel can be added? $1500-$2K or more? Charging rate is 37km/hour so you need 10 hours of plug in time to reach a full charge? Looks like a TPITA, to me, but I suppose its something you'd get used to.
I've got like $5k in my old Saab wagon that probably will last another 100K miles if I take care of it. I've got a handful of other cars to run if one starts having problems, I realize most people just have one car, but do you really want to put all your eggs in one basket with all the possible problems that could be part of owning an electric car? Economically, it just doesn't add up for me.
I commute a long distance to work and with family commitments run about 30-35K miles a year, if someone can show how the economics of an electric car can work for me, I'd be happy to see that.
I know what I have to do to keep my old cars running good, but a car like a Tesla is for me, overly complicated and likely not easy to trouble shoot. Will the unknown repair costs eliminate any cost savings that come from no oil changes, buying gas, inevitable gasoline engine repairs?
Yeah, I kind of would like to get an electric car, but right now, its just too expensive, and there are too many unknowns.
Having said all that, I am keeping an open mind, as things change, perhaps the way I'm looking at it will change as well.
What if electric cars get more popular and you then have to wait in line to get charged?
A Tesla is like $50K?
Here in PA, the sales tax alone on that is $3K. Add to that wiring a fast charger at the house, how much is that?
Yes, there are less expensive electric cars, but their limited range isn't going to work for me.
A quick google search shows that for a fast charger you need 240V and 50 amp breaker, similar to adding a dryer or electric stove. So for some houses that's going to mean a service upgrade, or maybe just a Sub-panel can be added? $1500-$2K or more? Charging rate is 37km/hour so you need 10 hours of plug in time to reach a full charge? Looks like a TPITA, to me, but I suppose its something you'd get used to.
I've got like $5k in my old Saab wagon that probably will last another 100K miles if I take care of it. I've got a handful of other cars to run if one starts having problems, I realize most people just have one car, but do you really want to put all your eggs in one basket with all the possible problems that could be part of owning an electric car? Economically, it just doesn't add up for me.
I commute a long distance to work and with family commitments run about 30-35K miles a year, if someone can show how the economics of an electric car can work for me, I'd be happy to see that.
I know what I have to do to keep my old cars running good, but a car like a Tesla is for me, overly complicated and likely not easy to trouble shoot. Will the unknown repair costs eliminate any cost savings that come from no oil changes, buying gas, inevitable gasoline engine repairs?
Yeah, I kind of would like to get an electric car, but right now, its just too expensive, and there are too many unknowns.
Having said all that, I am keeping an open mind, as things change, perhaps the way I'm looking at it will change as well.
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Cost depends on the location. Tesla superchargers bill by kwh. Usually between .36-.41 cents per. My long drives usually include an overnight stretch. From around 11PM till 5Am, it's much cheaper. I've paid as little as .19 cents per kwh. At home I pay a discounted overnight rate of .12 cents. A full charge costs me $8.11. My state - New Jersey - currently has no plans to add a road tax.
I have never waited in line. Will it happen? Sure eventually, but they are adding chargers near daily. The Tesla navigator will re-route you automatically to an open charger if the one you were headed to is full.
Less now after recent price drops. The cheapest model 3 is like $32,000 now after federal incentives.
No sales tax on EV's in NJ. I was looking at a $53,000 BMW. I bought a $57,000 Model 3 Performance. Considering no sales tax, I effectively paid the same amount the gas BMW would have cost me.
Many electric companies are offering incentives. Mine paid $1500 towards my panel upgrade and charger install. Prior to that I was charging off of a self-installed 240 outlet without issues. I only upgraded because we needed to increase our amps anyway for the hot tub we plan to buy soon.
Who says you have to do that if you want an EV? I have a paid off 2019 Subaru Outback we'll be keeping until it dies. It sees like 50 miles a week now.
High mileage is exactly why I bought my EV. I'm saving around $300 a month in gas. I average 27,000 miles annually between work (I drive all over NYC for my job) and pleasure. People who drive the average or even less won't really see a savings. I never charge publicly except for road trips. No more inconvenient gas station stops for my regular driving, even on 100+ mile days.
There is no trouble shooting. The car tells you what's wrong and can even schedule service appointments for you. For most issues, the technician comes straight to your house. "Recalls" are over the air, unlike my Outback recall that I've been waiting 3 months for the part to come in and will have to give up a day at the dealer fending off the added work they're going to try to get me to pay for while I'm there.
I'm happy to hear this because oftentimes people who don't fully understand the technology choose to act as if they do and have already shut their mind, usually for politics-driven reasons.
DC fast vehicle chargers are still new tech, so I assume the people or companies installing them are charging more for people to charge at them to offset the cost. As the tech ages it should become more affordable.
Also, some places, like two grocery stores I frequent, have free level 2 charging available.
I actually can't charge at rates over 12mi per hour of charge.
Just like with gassing up an ICE vehicle, that depends. How many people are on the road in a given location? How many petrol pumps or charging stations are available in that area? Is it a "rush" time? Is the nearby convenience store having a special on milk?
I've had to wait to pump gasoline a few times in my life.
As EVs get more popular, there will be a higher demand for charging stations, and more will be built.
I think one model might be down around $40k? I'm not super enthusiastic about Tesla. I grew up with Chevrolet/GM. My Volt was significantly cheaper than a Tesla.
Looks like Airborne got to it while I was typing.
I assume this depends on a lot of things, like the age of the wiring in the house, how in demand your electrician is. I don't know, since I've never put in a level 2 charger in my house. I only charge on regular household current at my house.
I probably will put in a level 2 charger when I get an electrician out here for other things.
I think there are programs for helping with the cost of upgrading your service so you can put in a fast charger.
I don't usually let my gas tank get lower than three-eighths. I rarely gas up my ICE vehicle from a completely empty tank. My spouse's round trip drive to work is less than two-thirds what our car's electric range is rated at. She plugs it in when she gets home, it recharges while we have supper, have family time, and sleep. It's typically fully charged or darn close by the time she leaves for work the next morning. That's on normal household current. Hardly have to take it to gas stations anymore.
And even when we have plenty of charge left, if free charging is available we usually take advantage of it.
Yeah, I do. And that's coming from someone dealing with an EV specific problem right now. GM is sending a part to my dealership for free because an EV specific part is malfunctioning. It's the only major problem I've had with it over the past few years. ICE vehicles also have the occasional malfunction.
Barring some unforseen vehicle and/or financial disaster for us, our current Jeep will be our last pure ICE vehicle. When our Volt hits a certain number of miles, it'll be replaced by a BEV. If Jeep comes out with an affordable PHEV and my wife feels like it's time to trade, we'll probably trade. Hopefully when it hits the mileage we like to trade at, there will be a BEV Jeep we can afford.
That's an issue for you to resolve. You have to consider a lot of things, like whether you have two cars, can charge overnight, how far your daily/weekly drives are, where any chargers might be along your frequented routes. What do you ask your Saab, or any other vehicle you have, to do?
A year ago I had no idea that there were some convenient chargers along my usual routes to visit family. Now I've found them, found a couple more chargers in my hometown, and convinced my parents to put a 240 outlet in their new garage. My situation changed, so now I'm really confident that when I go full BEV I'll be fine.
Right to repair is something I believe in as well. That even put me at odds with my favorite farm implement maker. Hopefully we're all getting back to a right to repair attitude.
I think a few people on this thread have cited studies that suggest maintenance on an EV is less expensive than maintenance on an ICE vehicle.
An open mind is a good thing. Circumstances change. I went from wanting a BEV, but thinking I was stuck with a PHEV at best (not that I don't like my Volt, I actually like it a lot), to being confident I can get a BEV next time we trade, in just the past few months. Vehicle ranges change, charging infrastructure changes, and even charging speeds are still improving.
You write about there being too many unknowns, but have you looked for charging stations you might use? Have you thought about what you ask of your vehicle(s)? Do you have any friends or friendly acquaintances with EVs you can ask about their experiences?
I see the “unknowns” comment frequently. It’s a shame because most EV information relevant to the average driver is not only KNOWN, but well-known, and proven with extensive current data that is easily available.
The issues, which I’ve discussed here from my own experience, are not knowing which questions ask, and, as Kent just mentioned, making an honest assessment of what you are actually asking your vehicle to do.
Too many people are used to coming at that question (if asked at all) from the extremes. This is why we see so many people driving pickups who tow 1-2 times per year. The EV assessment needs to come from the other end: what do I need my vehicle to do DAILY?
If one can answer that question honestly without (often) political bias, most will find, as I did, that an EV is far more convenient than their gas vehicles ever were.
The issues, which I’ve discussed here from my own experience, are not knowing which questions ask, and, as Kent just mentioned, making an honest assessment of what you are actually asking your vehicle to do.
Too many people are used to coming at that question (if asked at all) from the extremes. This is why we see so many people driving pickups who tow 1-2 times per year. The EV assessment needs to come from the other end: what do I need my vehicle to do DAILY?
If one can answer that question honestly without (often) political bias, most will find, as I did, that an EV is far more convenient than their gas vehicles ever were.
Obviously if you have multiple available vehicles, buying an expensive EV, especially buying it brand new off the lot rather than used, doesn't pencil out economically. Because you're comparing zero current car payment (I assume) with a very large financial outlay.
Right now, I'm the same way. My Ford Flex is paid off, with about 80K miles on it. It has plenty of life left in it. My family situation means that I don't want to downgrade from a 7-passenger vehicle until at least late 2026 when my oldest goes off to college. The Flex (especially given that I'm not putting a ton of miles on it) will easily last that and more. At the same time, my wife's RX is 3 payments from being fully paid off. Ideally we want to go another 5+ years of no car payment before we replace it.
So if I looked right now at the economics of replacing either car, it would be silly. Because I'd be taking on a huge purchase to replace cars that will be very minimal to own and operate for the next 5+ years.
When I get towards the right time to replace either one, however, *that* will be the time that I'm seriously considering EVs. And coincidentally I think the various things that ruled it off the table when I bought the Flex in 2017 (cost, lack of available options that fit my needs, lack of robust used market, immature infrastructure for charging stations, etc etc) will all be in a MUCH healthier state in 2026+.
But we're all different. Each year, a ton of Americans are looking to replace a vehicle. It sounds like you have no incentive to replace your vehicles in the near future, which is the same situation I'm in. But for those who are, EVs are pretty viable for many purchasers now, and will be increasingly more so as time goes on.
madscientist451
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So how much does it cost to charge the car to drive 27,000 miles?
I'm looking for your actual costs, not something generic I can look up using google.
How many KW are used?
I can easily come up with an estimate within a few hundred bucks for any of my gas powered cars for 27,000 miles (including oil changes and other engine maintenance).
Electric prices are different all across the country, but if the electric consumption can be determined, anyone can figure out the cost in their area.
I wasn't asked, but I'll chime in anyways.
So much of that depends on individual circumstances. And unless Tesla just automatically logs *everything*, I doubt Airborne bought the gear to monitor his charging and then also logged all his miles. I don't.
ICE cars mileage aren't fixed. When my wife drives the jeep in the winter, her milage is something like 23mpg. When I drive it in the summer, there's rarely a tank below 29mpg.
Even at the same time of year I still typically get better mileage, but even that isn't a guarantee, because sometimes even I get to be in a hurry, or I have the bike rack on, or any number of things.
I'm sure miles per kilowatt is similar.
So much of that depends on individual circumstances. And unless Tesla just automatically logs *everything*, I doubt Airborne bought the gear to monitor his charging and then also logged all his miles. I don't.
ICE cars mileage aren't fixed. When my wife drives the jeep in the winter, her milage is something like 23mpg. When I drive it in the summer, there's rarely a tank below 29mpg.
Even at the same time of year I still typically get better mileage, but even that isn't a guarantee, because sometimes even I get to be in a hurry, or I have the bike rack on, or any number of things.
I'm sure miles per kilowatt is similar.
And @Airborneguy stated right out that charging the full battery from 0 to 100% overnight at home would cost $8.11. Based on a .12 kwh electricity cost, that would suggest it's a Model Y with 67.5 kwh battery? That can apparently go 279 miles on a full charge.
That's 2.9 cents per mile, so 27,000 miles, if charged ENTIRELY at home, would be $785.
AAA suggests current gas prices where he lives in NJ average 3.47/gal. To assume something similar to the maximum range of the Tesla, we'll take highway mileage, and I'll pick an economy car like Civic that gets 40 mpg highway. That's 8.7 cents per mile, so 27,000 miles would be $2342.
So an economy car takes 4x the same "fuel" cost to drive.
Obviously here in CA it wouldn't be the same. Our gas costs (AAA says 4.85/gal) are higher than NJ, but from looking at my own bill, the cost of electricity is higher relative to gas prices (I think I'm over .30 per marginal kwh). But the EV would still be cheaper. And if I made sure I was being charged time of use rates lower in the evening It may come down from there.
That's 2.9 cents per mile, so 27,000 miles, if charged ENTIRELY at home, would be $785.
AAA suggests current gas prices where he lives in NJ average 3.47/gal. To assume something similar to the maximum range of the Tesla, we'll take highway mileage, and I'll pick an economy car like Civic that gets 40 mpg highway. That's 8.7 cents per mile, so 27,000 miles would be $2342.
So an economy car takes 4x the same "fuel" cost to drive.
Obviously here in CA it wouldn't be the same. Our gas costs (AAA says 4.85/gal) are higher than NJ, but from looking at my own bill, the cost of electricity is higher relative to gas prices (I think I'm over .30 per marginal kwh). But the EV would still be cheaper. And if I made sure I was being charged time of use rates lower in the evening It may come down from there.
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Fast forward again a couple of years...and said Volt was/is giving us some tantrums about the battery with a dashboard message about propulsion being offline or something like that. I never actually saw it, but kids said it was doing it multiple times, and it sounded like it was kinda dangerous.
Took it into the dealer, and of course they took almost a week to replicate the behavior. And...then they didn't know what to do about it, so they had to open a ticket with GM directly? I mean..this is a 2012 car..how can you..what do you mean, you've never seen this before?
Anyways..fix is to replace the batteries. Which comes to a total of...wait for it. $18,000. Which..even if I could magically pull that out of my
, there is a 3 month waiting list? Un..flippin believable.It isn't exhibiting the behavior anymore...or at least the kids aren't fessing up about it. Only needs to last a couple more months before they're off to college and I can turn it into Carmax's problem, or something thereabouts.
I really hate that f'n car. Below 65 degrees and it wants to use the pathetic thing it refers to as an 'engine' that utilizes premium fuel and burns through it like a gasoline fire on dead eucalyptus leaves. Dangerous to have to rely on that pathetic amount of HP on the highway too.
It is now definitely a local vehicle which only gets used to mostly get to the high school and back or around the local neighborhood.
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Weird. I got a message about propulsion as well, but they don't need to replace the battery, and the part they are replacing is being paid for by GM.
Until you said battery replacement, it sounded like we had the same problem.
Until you said battery replacement, it sounded like we had the same problem.
So yes and no.
The car logs miles and kwh expended on trip the trip logs, but my total kwh for the 27,000 miles (my overall is around 32,000 now) will include any public charging I used. It’s not much, but if you want an exact amount, that throws it off. I can tell you (after I finish this Celebrator at my favorite bar) what 32,xxx miles would cost me at .12 cents though based on the kwh the car says I expended to go that far.
The car logs miles and kwh expended on trip the trip logs, but my total kwh for the 27,000 miles (my overall is around 32,000 now) will include any public charging I used. It’s not much, but if you want an exact amount, that throws it off. I can tell you (after I finish this Celebrator at my favorite bar) what 32,xxx miles would cost me at .12 cents though based on the kwh the car says I expended to go that far.
Since I have owned the car I’ve driven 31,706 miles with 9,041 kwh expended.
My average wh/mi is sitting at 285. So $1085 at my home charging rate.
Btw, I was slightly off on the cost to “fill up”. That was at my .09 cents electric rate. It went up a little. I drive a Model 3 performance with an 82kwh battery. So $9.84.
My average wh/mi is sitting at 285. So $1085 at my home charging rate.
Btw, I was slightly off on the cost to “fill up”. That was at my .09 cents electric rate. It went up a little. I drive a Model 3 performance with an 82kwh battery. So $9.84.
That's interesting that Tesla saves all your mileage information. My Volt saves my car's MPGe over it's lifetime and since last full charge, but that's it.
I also reset my trip odometer every time I add gasoline, so I get my MPG for the tank, but that's been a habit for years. It came in handy when my Pontiac's fuel gage quit working.
I also reset my trip odometer every time I add gasoline, so I get my MPG for the tank, but that's been a habit for years. It came in handy when my Pontiac's fuel gage quit working.
It’s not a feature. Similar to you re-setting your trip each fill up, I use one for my total mileage. So Trip B is the total mileage since I bought the car and Trip A is used whenever I have something I want to track like for a work trip or when I drive to/from Florida. You can rename them, so my “Trip B” actually is “Total”. 
It does track “Current Trip” and “Since Last Charge” on its own.
It does track “Current Trip” and “Since Last Charge” on its own.
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My PHEV Prius collects a lot of data as well, but it’s a bit of a PITA to find it buried in all the different menu screens. It does have a useful ‘odometer’ that registers your ‘mpg’ based on how often the ICE kicks in. The maximum ‘fuel economy’ it registers is 199.9 ‘mpg’ which frustrates SWMBO’d (primary driver) since she tries to drive so that the ICE never starts.
The fuel tank is only 9 gallons, I think, so every 6 months or so we have to drive it non-electric to prevent gums and varnishes from forming in the tank, and add fresh fuel. We then reset the trip odometer and calculate the cumulative actual mpg by dividing the odometer reading by the gallons of fuel added. It comes up something truly ridiculous (as well as virtually meaningless), yet it does make my wife happy. At the last fill up she was in the neighborhood of 2,000 miles per gallon.
madscientist451
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Thanks, so my Honda Civic averages 33 mpg (according to the car's computer) and 31,706 miles would consume 960 gallons of gas.
960 x $3.50/gallon (my local price is actually lower at the moment) =$3362
So "fuel" costs for the electric car Airborneguy has compared to my Honda is $2277 for 31,706 miles or or 7 cents a mile less cost.
I usually run my cars to 200,000 to 300,000 miles before getting rid of them, but lets just look at a 100,000 mile "picture":
Cost of used 2012 Honda Civic EXL w/38,000 miles (Honda Certified Bought during COVID so payed top retail price) $16,000
Sales tax $960
DIY oil change using Mobil1 synthetic and most expensive filter Walmart sells $30 x 13 (every 7500 miles) =$390
Air filters every 25K 4 x $14 =$56
Cost of fuel above what electric vehicle would cost $7,000
Total cost of above items assuming exhaust was OK and no tuneups were required: $24406
Above costs don't include brake, tires and other maintenance that would be the same for both vehicles. (need for brake maintenance depends on how you drive and can't be determined)
Value of Honda private party sale according to KBB: $8,000
So if vehicle was sold after driving 100,000 miles the total cost would be $16,406.
Of course, I'm not selling it, I'll use it as a commuter car until I retire.
But my total costs will go up because the car will probably need tune ups, possibly exhaust and other service.
So how can this be compared to buying a new Tesla 3? The big cost of owning the Tesla will be depreciation of value.
Assumptions: Tesla 2021 model 3 long range MSRP $50990 Assuming no sales tax, But including a $7500 tax credit (not sure about that)
Cost to Acquire Tesla: $43990 (Does Tesla charge a delivery fee or dealer charges?)
Value of Tesla w/100,000 miles (private party KBB) $28900
If Tesla is sold after 100,000 miles cost of ownership= $14590
Not sure what maintenance, if any, besides brakes and tires, the Tesla requires during the first 100,000 miles, so I didn't include any.
So using all the assumptions above, the Tesla cost is about $2,000 less/100K miles than the used Honda.
If the Tesla was compared to a brand new Honda civic, I'm guessing that the cost difference would be more, because there would be more depreciation involved.
So is it worth it for me to ditch my Honda for $.02 cents per mile?
Right now, No. If gas prices go up, the whole equation will change.
But the bigger picture is having the cash flow to finance a $50k car.
I didn't include any interest costs in the above calculations because its just more complicated than I want to get into, but not everyone can swing the monthly payments on a car that costs $50K. Also not included is installation of a charging system at home. Also didn't include my labor value when I do my own maintenance.
There are several sources that indicate actual power consumption for charging to be higher than what Airborneguy has experienced, but I used his number since I have no way to verify the other numbers I can find.
Another factor is driving a brand new Tesla is a different experience than driving a Honda Civic, even if its a creampuff certified used car with low mileage, I'm sure the Tesla is a way nicer car to drive.
If the Tesla was compared to a new "luxury" car like a BMW, that cost about the same, cost difference will be enve greater since the BMW will depreciate more and use more gas than my Honda. If compared to a top of the line new Toyota Camry, the difference might not be as much as a BMW since the Camry depreciation will be less and fuel economy better.
Anything above that I messed up or something I missed?
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Not sure what you missed, because after I saw that you were comparing a used '12 Civic to a new Tesla, I couldn't take it seriously and just skimmed it. The target demographic Honda had in mind for the Civic is just different from the demographic Tesla is targeting. What those demographics want from their cars, and what they're willing to spend on vehicles, is different. Then consider that you're comparing a new vehicle today to a used vehicle from a few years ago on top of that.
Kind of sounds like you're trying to argue that we EV enthusiasts are insisting you trade for an EV immediately. If I have given that impression, I apologize. I haven't read all of Airborne's posts thoroughly, but nothing I read from him suggests he wants you to trade for an EV immediately.
I don't yet own a BEV. I have a PHEV Chevrolet and an ICE Jeep. I look forward to when I have two BEVs in my garage (or 4, depending on what we have the kids drive and when), but I'm not going to go out and do that tomorrow, because it's my custom to keep vehicles until they hit a certain mileage. But as I've said, barring a disaster I believe that my Jeep is my last pure ICE vehicle.
I think the points I keep coming back to on this thread are:
Kind of sounds like you're trying to argue that we EV enthusiasts are insisting you trade for an EV immediately. If I have given that impression, I apologize. I haven't read all of Airborne's posts thoroughly, but nothing I read from him suggests he wants you to trade for an EV immediately.
I don't yet own a BEV. I have a PHEV Chevrolet and an ICE Jeep. I look forward to when I have two BEVs in my garage (or 4, depending on what we have the kids drive and when), but I'm not going to go out and do that tomorrow, because it's my custom to keep vehicles until they hit a certain mileage. But as I've said, barring a disaster I believe that my Jeep is my last pure ICE vehicle.
I think the points I keep coming back to on this thread are:
- EVs are good vehicles, and they're still improving
- If you take an honest assessment of what you ask your vehicles to do, you can probably find an EV that isn't outrageously priced (don't read that as being very affordable) that can handle it
- Don't forget to look at charging infrastructure around your commonly driven routes
- EVs are worth considering when you decide to get a new vehicle
It's never "worth it" to ditch any car you already own for a new one that's remotely similar. No surprise here.
Your math looks good, for what it's worth. but of course it won't be worth it. Only at a time you are ready to buy a new car do you need to begin the comparison, and at that time it may be a totally different story.
Mostly what Kent said, but to add a few points:
1. Where did you come up with the $2277 fuel cost? Am I missing something? You made a good comparison to mine but then added that number.
2. For me, replacement costs weren’t part of the equation. I traded a lease with 12 payments left yet was handed a $13,000 check AFTER they covered the lease. Carmax was being stupid in early ‘22 but I scored. They also did not add a premium for FSD, only the performance tag. My only regret is not choosing the blue one I could have had shipped from CT for $1000 more. That color is rare in my car and I love it.
3. You touched on the correct comparison, a BMW, but then focused on the Civic. Now that’s fair because for you, it’s relevant, but as Kent said, in general, it’s not the correct car to compare a Tesla to. My car holds 5 adults comfortably, is one of the safest on the road, fuels cheaply at home, and can beat 99% of street legal cars on the track (with the other 1% mostly being Teslas also lol). The fair comparison is a sport model BMW or Mercedes. Or maybe a high option Camry or Genesis.
4. 100% I not only don’t care if people switch, I kind of don’t want them to. As gas revenue drops off steeply, states are instituting taxes on EVs. Mine has no current plans to do so and won’t until the scale tips.
1. Where did you come up with the $2277 fuel cost? Am I missing something? You made a good comparison to mine but then added that number.
2. For me, replacement costs weren’t part of the equation. I traded a lease with 12 payments left yet was handed a $13,000 check AFTER they covered the lease. Carmax was being stupid in early ‘22 but I scored. They also did not add a premium for FSD, only the performance tag. My only regret is not choosing the blue one I could have had shipped from CT for $1000 more. That color is rare in my car and I love it.
3. You touched on the correct comparison, a BMW, but then focused on the Civic. Now that’s fair because for you, it’s relevant, but as Kent said, in general, it’s not the correct car to compare a Tesla to. My car holds 5 adults comfortably, is one of the safest on the road, fuels cheaply at home, and can beat 99% of street legal cars on the track (with the other 1% mostly being Teslas also lol). The fair comparison is a sport model BMW or Mercedes. Or maybe a high option Camry or Genesis.
4. 100% I not only don’t care if people switch, I kind of don’t want them to. As gas revenue drops off steeply, states are instituting taxes on EVs. Mine has no current plans to do so and won’t until the scale tips.
It's complicated! Cost of electricity is different everywhere (if you're near a hydroelectric dam, it's cheap). Same for gas. More important is whether you can charge at home. Many people can't, especially in urban settings.
The following is from an article in the WSJ I read a few months ago. I'll put a link to the article too - they also delve into total cost of ownership issues like cost of chargers, tax credits, maintenance, etc. Good read I think.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-mu...9w7e0cec55i&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
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madscientist451
Well-Known Member
The $2277 was the difference in cost of running the Honda vs Charging the Tesla at home for 31,706 miles as Airborneguy indicated.
As I was driving home on my 5 hr road trip (in the Saab, not the Honda) and noticed all the Teslas around,
I was thinking about how nice it would be to have no more oil changes, not worry about timing chains, oil leaks, ignition issues, cooling and exhaust systems and all the stuff that occurs to keep a gasoline engine running.
When I retire in a few years, I can pretty much afford any car I want (within reason) but I won't be doing the daily commute and my driving will be mostly longer trips to Vermont, Maine and out West for skiing.
If I get a new or almost new Toyota Highlander, I know I can drive 8-9 hours straight through, and then the next day go wherever I want. The operating and maintenance cost will be higher compared to an electric vehicle, but the freedom to do as I please will be worth it for me.
So I could get an EV for shorter trips or around town, but the return on investment just doesn't work out unless you drive a lot of miles. As my collection of older cars gets even older and as my ability to take care of them diminishes because of my age, I can see myself eventually getting rid of all the old stuff (maybe keep the convertible) and getting a new EV that I don't have to do much of anything to keep it going.
I was listening in on a conversation last night about this, a friend with a Model 3 and another considering one. The friend with the Model 3 takes a lot of road trips in it, and doesn't at all mind the charging. In his opinion it was Tesla specific, their superchargers being so fast and widely available. Basically every 3 hours or so he stops and charges, stretches his legs, has a snack, goes pee, things that you might do on a road trip at a gas station or rest stop. His opinion was essentially that his road trip travel habits basically haven't changed one bit.
I agree with this. If anything, it helps with “driving straight through” because the stops are perfect nap length.
I’ve driven to Florida twice in my Model 3, 1100 miles one way. Straight through overnight both times.
I’m a fairly frequent roadtripper. My Model 3 is the preferred choice now unless we’re taking the jetski.
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
If you stop every 3 hours, how long do you have to charge to get back to full?
A quick Google search shows that a supercharger can get you 200 more miles of range in about 15 minutes, and cost about $18-$20, just wondering if that's accurate.
So including charging, how long does it take to travel 1100 miles?
Also, I thought the Tesla 3 could tow fairly lightweight items like a jetski without any issues?
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Shortest was 19 hours. Longest 21.
It does tow the jetski easily, but it affects the range too much for me to tow with it on a road trip.
It does tow the jetski easily, but it affects the range too much for me to tow with it on a road trip.
What does your jet ski weigh?
Probably affects aerodynamics a lot more than any concern about weight.
He said it was a bit over 10 miles a minute at a Supercharger, so that sounds about right.
Does need to be a Supercharger. And he does take a look at where they are located in advance.
The ski is just under 900lbs and the trailer about 300.
I've always wondered if this is the case.
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