I have heard of folks adding some of the DME to the mash to increase its fermentablity.
Pliny the Younger Clone
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Thanks...I'll make these adjustments
The amount of DME will depend on the ppg rating for the extract you intend to use. The above example is for a 5.5 gallon batch and actually based on Briess Golden Light DME, which is 43 ppg and not an extra light version at 5 Lovibond. But it is one of the only readily available American 2-row based light DME's out there. Briess' Extra Light version of DME is actually Pils malt based, so don't use that. If you can find an Extra Light DME that is lighter than Briess with a lower ppg rating, and based on American-2 row, then use it.
i live in austin, so austin homebrew sells this:
http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?products_id=145
does that change anything?
No, as stated, Briess Extra Light, or any attempt to describe it as Extra Light, is made from a Pilsen base.
You need an Extra Light DME that uses American 2-row, not Pilsen malt. If you can't find any, stick with regular Light DME.
You need an Extra Light DME that uses American 2-row, not Pilsen malt. If you can't find any, stick with regular Light DME.
its hard to find what the DME consists of...northernbrewer sells Muntons Extra light DME...i did some googling and it seems it contains 2-row and carapils
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/munton-s-dme-extra-light.html
is that okay? its more expensive than Briess, or should i just use Briess Light DME
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/munton-s-dme-extra-light.html
is that okay? its more expensive than Briess, or should i just use Briess Light DME
![Craft A Brew - Safale BE-256 Yeast - Fermentis - Belgian Ale Dry Yeast - For Belgian & Strong Ales - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [3 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51bcKEwQmWL._SL500_.jpg)
Muntons is great as well. I have used their Extra Light DME many times in AIPAs with a grist consisting of 3-6 other malts, typically including real American 2-row to offset some of the English taste. But the character you get from English 2-row pale is quite different than American 2-row pale. I would stick with Briess Golden Light DME for this particular beer. We know for a fact that PtY is comprised of an American 2-row base.
Gutpunch
Active Member
I am but a mere extract brewer, but I've found this entire thread to be extraordinarily educational.
I'm curious, bobbrews, what is the significance of drawing a distinction between extracts made from 2-row vs. Pilsen?
I'm curious, bobbrews, what is the significance of drawing a distinction between extracts made from 2-row vs. Pilsen?
scottland
Well-Known Member
Bog post is up with the full breakdown and more pictures. It's fully carbed at this point and tasting incredible. I'm pretty damn proud of how this one turned out.
http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2013/03/pliny-younger-clone-20.html
http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2013/03/pliny-younger-clone-20.html
Ha, you're THAT guy. I love your double jack clone!
I read this thread months ago, and after all the hype with PTY this year, I decided I was going to attempt this as my first PM. There's a lot of new info since I read this last, and it answered a lot of my questions, but I've never done PM before. If I was going to use 6 pounds of 2-row and 8 oz of Crystal 15, based on >2 quarts per pound, I would need to use over 3.25 gallons of water. I only have a 5 gallon pot and a 1 gallon pot, so I assume I would just put the grains in a mesh bag in my 5 gallon pot with 4 gallons of water, bring it up to 145*, keep it there for 75-90 minutes, remove the bag, add enough water to bring it up to 5 gallons, boil, add LME, do the hop additions during the 90 minute boil, and add the dextrose at flame out. Could I use less 2-row and do I need to sparge after the mash?
I also had a question about yeast. I have an 11.5g packet of S-04. Is that a good strain or should I go with US-05 or WLP090. Either way I would have to make a starter because for a 4 gallon 1.088 OG batch (I've found that using 5 gallons over a 90 minute boil leaves me with ~4 gallons) I'd need at least 240 billion cells pitching at 0.75 million cells/ml/degree plato, however I think for a beer this big I would need to pitch at 1.0 cells/ml/degree plato, which is 300 billion cells for a 4 gallon batch.
In regard to these questions, I've been getting very good attenuation with extra light LME and Wyeast 1272, which only claims 72-76% attenuation. I recently got a 1.080 OG, 187 IBU DIPA down to 1.010 after a week in primary and 5 days of secondary/dry hopping, so I'd think adding dextrose and a better attenuating yeast could get me from 1.088 to 1.008, and I wouldn't have to use as much 2-row malt.
I also had a question about yeast. I have an 11.5g packet of S-04. Is that a good strain or should I go with US-05 or WLP090. Either way I would have to make a starter because for a 4 gallon 1.088 OG batch (I've found that using 5 gallons over a 90 minute boil leaves me with ~4 gallons) I'd need at least 240 billion cells pitching at 0.75 million cells/ml/degree plato, however I think for a beer this big I would need to pitch at 1.0 cells/ml/degree plato, which is 300 billion cells for a 4 gallon batch.
In regard to these questions, I've been getting very good attenuation with extra light LME and Wyeast 1272, which only claims 72-76% attenuation. I recently got a 1.080 OG, 187 IBU DIPA down to 1.010 after a week in primary and 5 days of secondary/dry hopping, so I'd think adding dextrose and a better attenuating yeast could get me from 1.088 to 1.008, and I wouldn't have to use as much 2-row malt.
midfielder5
Well-Known Member
Matt- look at BIAB, late extract additions [certainly DON'T boil all the LME for 90 min (yuck carmelization)] and Pliny uses an american ale yeast not an English yeast (S-04). and NO starters for dry yeast-- you buy two packets if necessary. If you don't know wth I am talking about, start a new thread for beginner process questions in the beginner forum.
cheers, Wendy
cheers, Wendy
I've read quite a few threads about stove top BIAB, but everyone is doing it a little differently. I wanted to find out if it was recommended to do a sparge, mash out, or just forget that entirely and only hang/squeeze out the bag. I also wanted to see if the Crystal 15 should be treated differently or if it was fine to throw both grains together. From what I had read in this thread a few months back, I thought I could just do a 30 minute PM of Crystal 40 and Carapils at 150* and substitute extra light LME for all the 2-row, but since scottland says bobbrews is a pro at PM, I figured I would go with his advice. He is recommending adding all the extract at boil start, and I've done 90 minute boils with extract and they seemed fine, however I think your recommendation to add the extract later in the boil is a great idea because it should increase the IBUs from my 90 minute addition, thus I will be able to use less hops. Would you recommend adding it at 60 minutes, 45 minutes, or 30 minutes?
I'm going to go with the WLP090 at 300 billion cells for 4 gallons, I've always used liquid yeast anyway and really wanted to give that one a try. I've heard it is not recommended to make a starter from dry yeast, but I'm not sure why that is and assumed it could be done if one really wanted to. I got the S-04 as a back-up, but have never had to use it. At the time I thought it had 20 billion cells per gram as per Jamil's calculator, and thus thought it could handle a 5 gallon batch, but it may have as few as 6 billion cells per gram, thus having 69 billion total. At this point I think I'm just going to use it in a 1 gallon DIPA to see what I think. I've been doing a lot of one gallon batches to compare hops, so maybe I'll start comparing yeasts that way now.
I'm going to go with the WLP090 at 300 billion cells for 4 gallons, I've always used liquid yeast anyway and really wanted to give that one a try. I've heard it is not recommended to make a starter from dry yeast, but I'm not sure why that is and assumed it could be done if one really wanted to. I got the S-04 as a back-up, but have never had to use it. At the time I thought it had 20 billion cells per gram as per Jamil's calculator, and thus thought it could handle a 5 gallon batch, but it may have as few as 6 billion cells per gram, thus having 69 billion total. At this point I think I'm just going to use it in a 1 gallon DIPA to see what I think. I've been doing a lot of one gallon batches to compare hops, so maybe I'll start comparing yeasts that way now.
Don't use LME. Use Extra Light or Light DME based on American 2-row Pale. You don't need carapils when using extract. Scott already mentioned that his attempt was a little fuller than the real beer, and he used a very minimal amount of carapils for an all-grain batch despite mashing very low.
Normally, when I brew Partial Mash, I add most of the DME at flameout. But for a beer like this which is so dependent on a set hop bill at a certain gravity, it would probably be wise to not mess with the early/middle hop amounts too much. If you change the hop bill or reduce the boil length, then DME could feasibly be added at flameout instead, but you will have something less like the real PtY since you now changed almost everything about it.
I don't think 6 lbs. of light DME at boil start would caramelize too much for the worse. With Crystal 15 instead of 40, you should have 7-8 SRM even with a 90 minute boil. Just be sure to do a full volume boil (no top off water). I think the beer would taste worse if you began the 90 minute boil at 1.060 OG, and proceeded to add 300 IBUs, and another 50 IBUs at 45 minutes... only ending up at 1.089 OG at 0 minutes, when you added the rest of the fermentables.
Normally, when I brew Partial Mash, I add most of the DME at flameout. But for a beer like this which is so dependent on a set hop bill at a certain gravity, it would probably be wise to not mess with the early/middle hop amounts too much. If you change the hop bill or reduce the boil length, then DME could feasibly be added at flameout instead, but you will have something less like the real PtY since you now changed almost everything about it.
I don't think 6 lbs. of light DME at boil start would caramelize too much for the worse. With Crystal 15 instead of 40, you should have 7-8 SRM even with a 90 minute boil. Just be sure to do a full volume boil (no top off water). I think the beer would taste worse if you began the 90 minute boil at 1.060 OG, and proceeded to add 300 IBUs, and another 50 IBUs at 45 minutes... only ending up at 1.089 OG at 0 minutes, when you added the rest of the fermentables.
Topping off with plain water will (IMO) kill a hop forward beer like this; I would strongly advise against it.
Use your larger main kettle to hold your 168 F sparge water (which will also be the rest of your start boil volume).
Use a smaller kettle to mash in (BIAB) around 144-145 F.
After the 60-90 minute mash, transfer the bag to the large kettle and perform a dunk sparge. Let drip drain as much as you can and then place the bag in a large bowl. It will continue to drain as you bring your mashed wort and sparge water collectively up to boil. You can add any remnants to the main kettle.
Don't add your hop extract (or pellets if using) until you have a full rolling boil. You don't want to FWH this beer. And if using pellets over extract, a strong hot break will eliminate any harsh tannins released by the hops.
Use your larger main kettle to hold your 168 F sparge water (which will also be the rest of your start boil volume).
Use a smaller kettle to mash in (BIAB) around 144-145 F.
After the 60-90 minute mash, transfer the bag to the large kettle and perform a dunk sparge. Let drip drain as much as you can and then place the bag in a large bowl. It will continue to drain as you bring your mashed wort and sparge water collectively up to boil. You can add any remnants to the main kettle.
Don't add your hop extract (or pellets if using) until you have a full rolling boil. You don't want to FWH this beer. And if using pellets over extract, a strong hot break will eliminate any harsh tannins released by the hops.
Thanks for the advice, it makes sense that messing with boil OG will mess the flavor, but why is DME so much better than LME? I thought DME was just LME that was dried out. Also, my small kettle is only 1 gallon, so there is no way I could mash 6.5 pounds of grain in it. After the 144* mash, would it work well to add the full boil volume to the wort, heat it up to 168*, and do the dunk sparge? If not, is there a better way to do it using the 1 gallon kettle?
DME caramelizes less and you get more bang for your buck with it since there's less retained water. It also has a longer shelf life. And to me, less extract twang...
I'm not sure I understand you on the last part. If you don't have a kettle or cooler big enough to mash at least 6 lbs. of grain in, then I wouldn't even attempt this beer. A pure extract brew or a severly limited partial mash won't work. Partial Mash of 6 lbs. would be the bottom limit and even then you won't attenuate as much as all grain.
I'm not sure I understand you on the last part. If you don't have a kettle or cooler big enough to mash at least 6 lbs. of grain in, then I wouldn't even attempt this beer. A pure extract brew or a severly limited partial mash won't work. Partial Mash of 6 lbs. would be the bottom limit and even then you won't attenuate as much as all grain.
LovesIPA
Well-Known Member
Northern's website says their hop extract (5ml "hopshots") are on backorder. Is there another source for these? If I had to use hop pellets in the recipe, how much would I use?
Target IBUs if using pellets. I believe scottland suggests 300 IBUs at 90 min and 45-50 IBUs at 45 min. When using pellets, you must wait for a vigorous boil before adding the first addition. HopShot doesn't contain the same amount of tannins as real hops, so you must eliminate the tannins with a good hot break if using pellets.
Get a bigger boil kettle for starters. They sell 8 gallon aluminum pots for about $40 at target and there are some great prices online. Ive used my 8 gal aluminum for almost 40 batches with zero issues. Good luck!
skeezerpleezer
Well-Known Member
fc36 said:
I bought an 8g "tamale steamer" at wal mart a couple years ago for $20. Worked fine for 80 batches or so till I upgraded to a 13g Stainless (for $27)
Where did you manage to find a 13 Gal SS kettle for $27? I want one! Heck, I want 3!
skeezerpleezer
Well-Known Member
fc36 said:
Shanghai. Just left there yesterday from another business trip and was gonna grab a few more but got lazy (drunk) so didn't go get them. Nice thick grade SS also. I am going back next month though, so hope to snag some more.
Anyway you'd be willing to ship one to Chicago? For a fee of course.
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