Please help with my first All-Grain (BIAB) numbers

[Shawn3997]

Hey, somewhat new brewer here, all extract until now but gonna leap to all-grain BIAB next month.

I've been looking at all of the BIAB calculators online and it seems they all give me different numbers. Here is what I'm going to have:

1. All-Grain kit with 10.75 lb grain bill
2. 10 gallon Igloo cooler (cylindrical)
3. Turkey fryer with 7.5 gallon (to the very rim) kettle

If I want to do a straight BIAB (no sparge) with a 153F mash, how much water should I put in the cooler with the grain and at what strike temperature?

Assume the grain is at room temp (75F), that I'm going to lose 1 gallon of water during a 60 minute boil, and that I'm going to end up with 5 gallons of 1.052 wort to put into the carboy.

If I understand this whole BIAB thing, I should be able to add the preheated water to the grain, stir, and then put the top on the cooler. Wait an hour. Open the cooler, lift the bag to drain, and then probably put the bag on a grate of some sort and use the kettle lid to squeeze some last wort out of the just-drained bag.

Then it's into the kettle for boiling, right? It seems incredibly easy, but I'm getting all sorts of different numbers for things like total water, strike temperature, water loss to grains, etc. from the calculators.

Would someone who has done a lot of BIAB brews tell me what they would do for total water amount and strike temp if they were doing my recipe? Just a good starting point that I can use to not mess up my first batch. I could refine my numbers from that starting point in future brews.

Also, the recipe I have for hop amounts and times is the same for an all-grain as it is for the extract kits I've been using. I know this can't be right because I'll get a lot more hop utilization out of the weaker (non-extract) wort during my boil. How much fewer hops should I use from the original all-extract recipe? Like half?

Anyone care to jump in here? I will forever speak of your wisdom and bravery to the new brewers and name a beer after you.

 

[enkamania]

I ran the numbers on http://biabcalculator.com/ and got this

Total Water Needed 7.48 Gallons
Strike Water Temp 159 Fahrenheit
Total Mash Volume 8.34 Gallons
PreBoil Wort 7.00 Gallons
PostBoil Wort 5.75 Gallons
Into Fermenter 5.50 Gallons

 

[dstockwell]

Using the priceless BIAB calculator you would need about 7.25 gallons of water, depending on the rest of your numbers - , hop loss, trub loss, etc. If you know all your numbers plug into the calculator and go with it.

 

[brewgar]

^ +1 on this

 

[Shawn3997]

OK, I'm going with these numbers for a no-sparge BIAB mash:

Target O.G. = 1.052
Batch Size = 5.25 gallons
Grain Bill = 10.75 pounds
Hop Bill = 42 grams
Dry Hops = 0 grams
Length of Boil = 60 minutes
Mash Temp = 153F
Grain Temp = 74F
Sparging Temp = 168
Sparging Volume = 0 gallons
Grain Absorption = 0.08 gallons/pound
Hop Absorption = 0.0014 gallons/pound
Boil-off Rate = 1.2 gallons/hour
Kettle Volume = 10 gallons
Kettle Width = 13.25 inches
Kettle Losses = 0 gallons
Packaging Losses = 0 gallons
Mashtun Losses = 0 gallons

This gets me these numbers from Priceless BIAB Calculator:
Total Water Needed = 7.4 gallons @ 68F, 7.6 gallons @ 153F
Strike Water Temp = 159F
Mash Thickness = 2.7 quarts/pound
Total Water Lost = 2.12 gallons

Volume of mash with grains = 8.4 gallons
Volume Pre-Boil = 6.8 gallons
Volume Post-Boil = 5.5 gallons
Volume out of Kettle Chilled = 5.25 gallons
Volume to Fermenter = 5.25 gallons
Estimated Boil-Off = 1.01 gallons/hour

Do these sound like viable numbers? What kind of efficiency should I expect to get with these numbers?

Thanks again to everyone for their help.

 

[enkamania]

What kind of efficiency should I expect to get with these numbers?

A big factor in efficiency is the fine crush of the grain.

 

[Shawn3997]

Should I ask the kit provider to crush the grains more? Also, for anyone who uses a cooler rather than a kettle, do you preheat your cooler? I'm guessing that the temperature numbers assume a hot kettle rather than a cooler.

 

[Bru-noob]

I am into my third batch using similar equipment other than I have a boil keggle.. Two points I can offer you as advice. Squeeze the living #@$@ out of the bag after you pull it.. I mean squeeze that sum @#$@ hard... #2 is double crush your grains. I have a grain mill so its easy for me. My first batch I came in at 55% eff and my last batch came in at 80.1%

 

[btbnl]

Should I ask the kit provider to crush the grains more? Also, for anyone who uses a cooler rather than a kettle, do you preheat your cooler? I'm guessing that the temperature numbers assume a hot kettle rather than a cooler.

Can I ask why you're not just mashing in the 10G kettle, BIAB-style?

 

[Johow]

He's only got a 7.5 gallon kettle which could work if he has a second smaller kettle to heat up a little pour over sparge water. He won't fit all the grain and all the water in the 7.5 gallon pot though.
I usually short my mash by 2 to 3 gallons and then do a pour over sparge to get my pre boil volume and I do have a 10 gallon kettle.

 

[btbnl]

He's only got a 7.5 gallon kettle which could work if he has a second smaller kettle to heat up a little pour over sparge water. He won't fit all the grain and all the water in the 7.5 gallon pot though.
I usually short my mash by 2 to 3 gallons and then do a pour over sparge to get my pre boil volume and I do have a 10 gallon kettle.

Post #5 (with all the numbers laid out) says 10G kettle, but I do now see 7.5G mentioned in post #1.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Do realize that the posted strike water temp of 159 is the temp of your strike water sitting in the cooler for 10 minutes allowing the cooler to warm up....to achieve this add 170 - 175 degree water to your cooler and allow it to cool to your 159 strike temp.

Stirring the strike water will cool it down, or a few ice cubes will help if it is stubbornly high.

If you were to add 159 degree water to your cooler, you would end up being way low because you lose a lot of heat on the transfer. Strike temp is the temp you add the grain after the cooler is heated up.....not the temp you heat the strike water to before moving it to your MT cooler.

Very simple you will be surprised how easy it is...

Oh, easier to just drain the cooler rather than removing the bag etc etc.

With such a small kettle, maybe drain 6 gallons and get that boiling while waiting for the last 1/2 gallon or so to drain drip out of the cooler.

Cheers

 

[Shawn3997]

Right, I would have to BIAB in a super-thin walled aluminum kettle sitting on a 45K BTU burner. I did a test with a pound of steeping grains at 155F, ambient at 90F, 2.5 gallons of water, and the top on the kettle. I lost 8 degrees over 30 minutes, so there's a lot of heat loss there.

Because I brew outside, I'm imagining a much greater loss over an hour during the cold months. I'm afraid I'd burn my new voile bag unless I put a colander or something in the bottom of the kettle. That would lose me a gallon of volume maybe and my kettle is 7.5 gallons to the very top, so 7 at the very most. Minus one for the colander and I'm down to 6 with that setup.

So that would limit me a lot if I wanted to use a bunch of grain and I just figured why not just get a cooler and make life easy. Preheat the cooler, plop in the grain and water, stir, put on the top and go inside for an hour where it's warm. No bag burning, very little, if any, temperature loss, and 10 gallons to use instead of 6. Plus I don't have to sit outside the whole hour measuring the temperature loss.

Tomorrow I'm going to buy a 3/8" x 50' stainless wort chiller, an Igloo industrial 10 gallon cooler, a new container of propane and 4 all-grain kits of the same beer (one that I like a lot) so I can hone in on my process and get some idea of my numbers.

I would buy everything bulk at my LHBS but I have no containers to hold grains and no grain crusher. I'll buy a good grain crusher and go whole-hog (as it were) next month. Then all I need is an oxygenation wand, a stir plate, a ph meter, a refractometer.....

Wasn't this hobby supposed to *save* me money?

 

[wilserbrewer]

Sorry to say, but your temp loss test with only a pound of grain and 2.5 gallons of water is not representative of losses you will have with a five gallon batch, not even close.

Greater grain mass and volume make it completely different.

JMO, don't over stress about mash temp....just aim for a sweet spot between 155 and 150, with experience that will fall into place.

 

[Shawn3997]

We will find out in about a week in a half! I'll post results when I get them.