Please advice a new brewer with an oatmeal stout.

[FVillatoro]

Hello everyone!
I have been lurking these forums for a few months and learning a lot- and making mistakes of course!

I pulled the trigger and went straight to all grain and I AM LOVING IT.

In order to experiment, and for fun , I went ahead and attempted to make my own recipe: An Oatmeal stout.

Initially I wanted a malty back bone with a good amount of roast (how I like them).
However, the opposite happened: It's a strong roast back bone with a hint of sweetness.
BTW the beer is kegged and currently still carbing.

What I believe worked out fine:
1. No signs of infection
2. I controlled the fermentation inside a chamber I made and got no off flavors such a diatecyl which the yeast I used (white labs Ringwood) is known for
3. Efficiency of 81%

Sampled at just under 6 weeks:
On the nose it smells of dark chocolate with roasted coffee and a slight hint of plum tartness.

On the mouth it has a very robust coffee/black chocolate roastiness which a touch of sweetness that ends with a slight tart taste. The beer is not overly viscous and there is some smoothness from the oats.

I am considering boiling about a pound of lactose sugar and adding it to the keg... or should I wait it out to see how it does in a few weeks?
Do stouts tend to mellow out and enhance sweetness?

Here is my recipe and recorded stats (yes, now that I think about it I used too much chocolate malt! )

Efficiency: 81% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.057
Final Gravity: 1.013
ABV (standard): 5.2%
IBU (tinseth): 33.7
SRM (daniels): 30.67

FERMENTABLES:
8 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (65.3%)
1 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 60L (8.2%)
1 lb - American - Chocolate (8.2%)
0.75 lb - Flaked Oats (6.1%)
0.5 lb - Flaked Barley (4.1%)
0.5 lb - United Kingdom - Pale Chocolate (4.1%)
0.25 lb - Rice Hulls (2%)
0.25 lb - United Kingdom - Roasted Barley (2%)

HOPS:
15 g - East Kent Goldings, Type: Pellet, AA: 5, Use: Boil for 90 min, IBU: 9.18
10 g - Northern Brewer, Type: Pellet, AA: 9, Use: Boil for 90 min, IBU: 11.02
10 g - East Kent Goldings, Type: Pellet, AA: 5, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 4.4
10 g - Northern Brewer, Type: Pellet, AA: 9, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 7.92
3 g - Fuggles, Type: Pellet, AA: 4.5, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 1.19

Mashed @ 155 for an hour. 90 Minute boil.
Fermentation temp 66-68 the first week, then raised to 68-70 and slowly to room temp.
3 weeks in primary fermenter .

THANKS GUYS!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Hello]

You used a lot of grains that will give you roasty factors. I doubt it'll mellow into something sweet. I can't say what happens if you add lactose well after the fact.

Jumping into all grain isn't bad, but until you understand a few recipes, I would simply use recipes that are created and proven. There's no shame in doing that.

 

[dkennedy]

Sounds like a good porter. At 6 weeks, I'd probably back sweeten with some lactose, to take some of the edge off. Definitely a fair bit of chocolate in that recipe, assuming that the American Chocolate is a dark (~350L) variety.

 

[FVillatoro]

Thanks for the replies fellas!

I have done a few clones and they have come out well.

And I agree with both that now that I see, and taste it, there's quite a bit of roasted malts in there.

A pound of boiled lactose will be added soon.

I'm taking notes and I will clean it up, but I am seeing that something like this would be less sharply roasted and maltier:

FERMENTABLES:
8 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (66.7%)
1.25 lb - Flaked Oats (10.4%)
1 lb - American - Chocolate 350L (8.3%)
0.75 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 40L (6.3%)
0.5 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 80L (4.2%)
0.25 lb - Rice Hulls (2.1%)
0.25 lb - United Kingdom - Roasted Barley (2.1%)

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for the replies fellas!

I have done a few clones and they have come out well.

And I agree with both that now that I see, and taste it, there's quite a bit of roasted malts in there.

A pound of boiled lactose will be added soon.

I'm taking notes and I will clean it up, but I am seeing that something like this would be less sharply roasted and maltier:

FERMENTABLES:
8 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (66.7%)
1.25 lb - Flaked Oats (10.4%)
1 lb - American - Chocolate 350L (8.3%)
0.75 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 40L (6.3%)
0.5 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 80L (4.2%)
0.25 lb - Rice Hulls (2.1%)
0.25 lb - United Kingdom - Roasted Barley (2.1%)

I'm not a fan of 8 pounds of base malt and nearly 4 pounds of specialty grains. I'd simplify a bit, depending on what I was looking for.

 

[FVillatoro]

I'm not a fan of 8 pounds of base malt and nearly 4 pounds of specialty grains. I'd simplify a bit, depending on what I was looking for.

When you put it that way, half are specialty grains
Point taken. I will re-think it.

Gracias!

 

[dwhite60]

Don't do a pound of lactose at once. Been there, done that.
Try a half pound, might even try just a third of a pound, stir it
in WELL and taste a sample. Once lactose is in it cannot be
taken out.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[FVillatoro]

Very sound advice.
I will add about 3/4 of a pound and wait a few days for it to dissolve and taste again.
The stout will mellow out a bit in a few more weeks and hopefully it gets tastier.
Thanks again!
I will post an update

Don't do a pound of lactose at once. Been there, done that.
Try a half pound, might even try just a third of a pound, stir it
in WELL and taste a sample. Once lactose is in it cannot be
taken out.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[dwhite60]

Very sound advice.
I will add about 3/4 of a pound and wait a few days for it to dissolve and taste again.
The stout will mellow out a bit in a few more weeks and hopefully it gets tastier.
Thanks again!
I will post an update

I've got a Russian imperial stout that came it about 11% ABV.
It's DARK and very roasty. A pound of lactose was too much for it even.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[kombat]

I'm taking notes and I will clean it up, but I am seeing that something like this would be less sharply roasted and maltier:

FERMENTABLES:
8 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (66.7%)
1.25 lb - Flaked Oats (10.4%)
1 lb - American - Chocolate 350L (8.3%)
0.75 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 40L (6.3%)
0.5 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 80L (4.2%)
0.25 lb - Rice Hulls (2.1%)
0.25 lb - United Kingdom - Roasted Barley (2.1%)

Or you could just use the proven Oatmeal Stout recipe in "Brewing Classic Styles."

You've still got a whopping 21% of your recipe as unfermentables (don't count the rice hulls). Do you even know why you're adding things? What, exactly, do you hope to get from the half pound of Crystal 80? Do you really think you'll even be able to tell it's in there? Or the Crystal 40? What's the point of those? They're going to get blasted by the 1.25 pounds of roasted malts.

Seriously, just start with good, pre-existing recipes until you understand why certain things are included/excluded, and why they're in whatever proportions they are.

 

[madscientist451]

Very sound advice.
I will add about 3/4 of a pound and wait a few days for it to dissolve and taste again.
The stout will mellow out a bit in a few more weeks and hopefully it gets tastier.
Thanks again!
I will post an update

I'd say 3/4 lb is too much to add. If it comes out too sweet, you can't change it back. 1/4 lb to 1/3 lb to start, and see what happens. Also not sure how well its going to blend in. A good approach to this is to pull 5-6 5oz samples and add different amounts of lactose to each and see if you get the taste you want. Then do some math to figure out how much to add to the whole batch.

 

[FVillatoro]

Or you could just use the proven Oatmeal Stout recipe in "Brewing Classic Styles."

You've still got a whopping 21% of your recipe as unfermentables (don't count the rice hulls). Do you even know why you're adding things? What, exactly, do you hope to get from the half pound of Crystal 80? Do you really think you'll even be able to tell it's in there? Or the Crystal 40? What's the point of those? They're going to get blasted by the 1.25 pounds of roasted malts.

Seriously, just start with good, pre-existing recipes until you understand why certain things are included/excluded, and why they're in whatever proportions they are.

Makes a lot of sense. I had a Samuel Smith's Oatmeal yesterday and it was great and I'll look for a clone for it, or take your advice and give that proven recipe a go.

I'd say 3/4 lb is too much to add. If it comes out too sweet, you can't change it back. 1/4 lb to 1/3 lb to start, and see what happens. Also not sure how well its going to blend in. A good approach to this is to pull 5-6 5oz samples and add different amounts of lactose to each and see if you get the taste you want. Then do some math to figure out how much to add to the whole batch.

Good advice, and I will experiment with samples.

Thanks fellas! Learning a lot over here!

 

[azazel1024]

It isn't going to sweeten. It is kinf of a mild oatmeal porter.

I don't think there is a universal agreement on what makes a stout and what makes a porter.

That said, I believe there is NEAR universal agreement that stouts have roasted barley and porters generally don't (or have only a tiny bit) and porters tend to have higher levels of carbonation (say 2.2-2.8 volumes) and stouts tend to have low levels of carbonation (say 1.8-2.2 volumes). Sounds like you went "too low" on the roasted barley, at least in my mind, to really justify calling it a stout. However, a beer is a beer and it doesn't really matter what I call it or you call it. Just matters if you enjoy it.

You didn't mention volume, but looking at the grain bill and gravity numbers, it looks like a 10 gallon batch. With that, I would have minimum doubled the oatmeal. I typically go for a minimum of 1lb of oats per 5 gallon batch, often times double that. I like my oatmeal beers THICK. Rice halls and/or protien rest for sure to keep it from sticking (though I do BiaB, so not nearly that big of a deal).

I'd agree with the others of a lot of specialty grains.

I'd simplify.

Maybe next time try this, especially if you want a sweeter stout.

10lbs 2-row or Marris Otter
2lbs Oatmeal
1lb Roasted barley
1lb chocolate malt
1lb Crystal 20L or 40L
WLP002 English Ale yeast

Mash around 156-158F.

That should give you a nice sweet stout, that should have some strong body to it. WLP002 is a very low attenuating yeast and the combo with a high mash temp will probably get you attenuation around 68-70%.

If you want it very, very sweet, that is when you use lactose. From the bits I've seen and read, between .5-1lb per 5 gallons of lactose is how much you want to use for a milk stout. I have never personally made one, but I do plan to this fall for a winter beer. Probably try to make a chocolate milk stout.

 

[m00ps]

Bit off topic but I've found the key to making a great Oatmeal stout is to toast some of the oats (usually 0.5-1.0 lb for me) in your oven at 350F for a while. Turn them every 20min or so. It really makes that oatmeal cookie kind of character stand out.

Just for comparison, this is my Oatmeal Stout. My friend demanded I make him a beer similar to Sam Smith's Oatmeal Stout
7lb Maris Otter
2lb Oats
1.0 Perla Negra (new de-husked roasted malt I wanted to try, prob could sub dark chocolate)
0.5lb Toasted Oats
0.5 crystal 60
0.5 Pale Chocolate

EKG for bittering and aroma. I actually had 3 oz that I had stored in a emptied jar of vanilla beans. The hops absorbed the aroma of the vanilla. Try it sometime

Irish Ale yeast

 

[azazel1024]

Bit off topic but I've found the key to making a great Oatmeal stout is to toast some of the oats (usually 0.5-1.0 lb for me) in your oven at 350F for a while. Turn them every 20min or so. It really makes that oatmeal cookie kind of character stand out.

Just for comparison, this is my Oatmeal Stout. My friend demanded I make him a beer similar to Sam Smith's Oatmeal Stout
7lb Maris Otter
2lb Oats
1.0 Perla Negra (new de-husked roasted malt I wanted to try, prob could sub dark chocolate)
0.5lb Toasted Oats
0.5 crystal 60
0.5 Pale Chocolate

EKG for bittering and aroma. I actually had 3 oz that I had stored in a emptied jar of vanilla beans. The hops absorbed the aroma of the vanilla. Try it sometime

Irish Ale yeast

I very much agree. Kind of depends on if you want the oatmeal cookie taste or not. I've generally found that oats don't really lend an oaty flavor, unless you toast them. Toast them up and even a mild amount can lend an oaty/oatmeal cookie flavor.

Sometimes I want that, sometimes I don't. Just kind of depends. I never toast oats for my RIS when I add them to make syrup (I once did a 2.5 gallon RIS with 2lbs of oats and an OG of 1.115, 3oz of cold steeped coffee in it. It took a good year to mellow, but that thing is AWESOME. Pours like heavy cream. Sadly I only have a single 22oz bottle of it left). I've just never liked oatmeal cookie tastes in RIS. In oatmeal stouts though, I often like it. Sometimes though I just want the body (I just like you for the body).

 

[m00ps]

I very much agree. Kind of depends on if you want the oatmeal cookie taste or not. I've generally found that oats don't really lend an oaty flavor, unless you toast them. Toast them up and even a mild amount can lend an oaty/oatmeal cookie flavor.

Sometimes I want that, sometimes I don't. Just kind of depends. I never toast oats for my RIS when I add them to make syrup (I once did a 2.5 gallon RIS with 2lbs of oats and an OG of 1.115, 3oz of cold steeped coffee in it. It took a good year to mellow, but that thing is AWESOME. Pours like heavy cream. Sadly I only have a single 22oz bottle of it left). I've just never liked oatmeal cookie tastes in RIS. In oatmeal stouts though, I often like it. Sometimes though I just want the body (I just like you for the body).

Hey, I made a flapjack breakfast stout with maple syrup coffee vanilla and cacao nibs. Probably similar to your RIS. You should've did what I did and stored 2 six packs in your closet out of sight out of mind.

 

[FVillatoro]

Thanks for the tips fellas, and toasted oats sound absolutely delicious! I've read about letting the aerate for a week or so inside a paper bag to rid it of volatiles (I believe). I will absolutely try it sometime.

As for my beer here, I boiled half a pound of lactose (pic below) in a little less than a pint of water and added it to the keg and purged. I had my nephew sample the first without lactose and he said it was really roasted, I then let him sample it again after the addition and he thought it was a different beer (which he liked much better). It took off some of the slightly acidic taste of the roasted malts away and its got a nice mouth feel and smoother taste.
We'll, as of now I will let it condition more and see how it ends up.
I will update and I am going for a Samuel Smith pale ale clone soon and going to try the white labs wlp002 English ale strain.

Thanks again!

 

[FVillatoro]

Oh man, I can't rotate the photo lol sorry ��

 

[Puddlethumper]

Here is a recipe for an excellent oatmeal stout. It compares very favorably with Anderson Valley's "Barney Flats Oatmeal Stout" which, IMO is about as good as it gets. I've made this recipe twice, once with Irish Ale yeast and it is very good. It is universally well accepted at my taps which is why I'm now serving my second batch of the stuff.

Look this recipe over carefully. It is a well balanced and well thought through recipe and compare it to what you are trying to do. You may see some significant differences in proportions. Those differences in proportions are what I would suggest you focus on and try to learn from.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=210376

Cheers and best of luck to you!

 

[azazel1024]

Hey, I made a flapjack breakfast stout with maple syrup coffee vanilla and cacao nibs. Probably similar to your RIS. You should've did what I did and stored 2 six packs in your closet out of sight out of mind.

I have an entire case of it sitting under my oil tank in my basement storage room. Out of sight, out of mind. I have 2 12oz bottles in a 4-pack left. That is all I am allowing myself until Thanksgiving.

 

[FVillatoro]

An update fellas.
I put this on gas about 3 weeks ago and I served myself a glass of it today.
It was brewed on 04/25/15 by the way and "tapped" today 06/19/15.

I have to say WOW! This beer improved immensely! The tartness that I described is completely gone- not a trace.

On the nose there are lots of malty notes with toffee and a hint of black chocolate.
Taste wise it's very very smooth almost silky with a slightly thick viscosity.
Flavor notes are sweetness from the malt and milk sugar up front, and finishes with a very smooth chocolate roasted bitterness. Not a ton of hops on the nose, but I can taste the hops at the very end.

I am not sure if I would call this a stout since the roast comes out at the very end and takes a back seat to the chocolate and malts/sweetness.

All in all, i am very satisfied with how this came out and I am happy today because I thought this would be a disaster.

Pours with a nice head, and it lingers a bit as it warms. I can imagine in another 2-3 weeks it would be even better.

Thanks for all the advice fellas!


Here is a pic: