Pint is a legal measure and not subjective.

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I specifically and deliberately said 'liquid volume'- in the post that you quoted. I also gave only examples using liquid measure. :drunk:

Originally posted by Fingers
Anyway, your tempest in a teapot comment indicates that you don't want to discuss this any further so I guess I'll let it go but I remain unconvinced.
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Not at all- you've gone off on a tangent regarding international trade which has nothing to do with the original subject.
 
Nostrildamus said:
I turned the glass so that the line (which the untouched beer level was below) and 0,4 were facing her and said, "No, you see right there it says these are 0.4 of a litre and a pint is 0.473 or just over half a litre so these are glasses."
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I'm gonna have to side with Nostrildamus on this one in principle but not in his methods. I would be pissed too if I bought what I was told was a pint but then found out not only did they short me (no matter how much it was) but they thought I was so freeking retarded that they could serve me in a glass clearly marked short of what I was paying for then short poured me too boot.

Honestly I wouldnt have not paid for it and would have walked out. Sure it's not much of a difference but imagine if you got screwed 15% at the gas station . . . there would be freeking Congressional hearings
 
zoebisch01 said:
Lol, I see your point fiery. But there are standards for a reason. As for the McD's they specifically call out it is a pre-cooked weight. The bag contents are packed by weight. But you're right, anything can be taken to the n-th degree and causing fights over it isn't worth it. On the other hand I think it is our responsibility as a consumer to keep companies honest.
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Of course, you can imagine how upset I was recently to find that when I ordered (3) 1 lb bags of hops from these guys, they put WAY too much into the bag, and I came out with about 4.5 lbs between the three bags. Gotta tell you people, if this happens again, I might just have to take it up with the management. :D
 
Cregar said:
I just went to my local home brew store and bought 6.6 pounds of LME for my next beer.. once I got home I found out I was close to a pound short...

Oh well... I guess it's ok to get shorted :) I will just have to make less beer.
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Yeah, but I would mention something next time. You're probably paying around 2 dollars/lb, you just made a donation to their beer fund, and while they hopefully didn't intend it, they should have it brought to their attention.
 
Pumbaa said:
Honestly I wouldnt have not paid for it and would have walked out. Sure it's not much of a difference but imagine if you got screwed 15% at the gas station . . . there would be freeking Congressional hearings
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Exactly what I was thinking, except people would probably riot and burn the station down. Not that I agree with the methods taken, but I'd love to see what starbucks drinkers would do if the 20 oz megafrappyblasticcino came out at 18 oz.
 
aseelye said:
Of course, you can imagine how upset I was recently to find that when I ordered (3) 1 lb bags of hops from these guys, they put WAY too much into the bag, and I came out with about 4.5 lbs between the three bags. Gotta tell you people, if this happens again, I might just have to take it up with the management. :D
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Lol, I usually say something in that case as well. My LHBS sent me an extra pack of yeast once and I told him about it. He chalked it up to his mistake...guess the point is if people know they are not getting screwed and others aren't out to screw them it makes for a much more cohesive society. People are hard enough to understand/get along with without all the extra crap that goes on. :cross:
 
Mikey said:
The Japanese yen is not official tender in Canada- only the Canadian dollar is.

Jerry cans may be marked in US, Imperial, metric and furlongs per fortnight if that still exists. None of them are certified as being legal for trade, just like your bathroom scale.

Yes we 'recognize' US dollars and Japanese yen, and I still go to the store 'for a quart of milk'. But I can't complain when the store keeper sells me a litre of milk and the tourists don't have a legal complaint if a local merchant won't accept US dollar or offers a crappy exchange rate.

The original post was titled "Pint is a legal measure and not subjective" which is true in the UK and maybe the US, but not in Canada.https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=240472#post240472

Talk about a tempest in a (metric) teapot................:tank:
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Devil's advocate here....:D....I wonder if I weigh the same in Canada (actually this is probably the worst example lol because it really isn't equivalent..but I can't think of a better one atm)? Point is that any measurement can be converted from one system to another. In fact there really is no absolute way of measuring something. But if you adapt a terminology it is defined somewhere.
 
Posting this on a US-based web site is bound to get lots of sympathy because the US still uses the pint, quart, gallon measure as it's only recognized system. If the event had happened in the US, I would lean more to agreeing with the poster.

I'm pretty sure that the bar tender and waitress in question weren't even born when Canada dropped the above measures and started adopting the metric system.

Most people under 35 today wouldn't know that a pint used to be a legal measure, the same as they don't have a clue about temperature measured in Fahrenheit.

I bet they're still laughing about the crotchety geek that got bent out of shape over a name.
 
Mikey said:
Posting this on a US-based web site is bound to get lots of sympathy because the US still uses the pint, quart, gallon measure as it's only recognized system. If the event had happened in the US, I would lean more to agreeing with the poster.

I'm pretty sure that the bar tender and waitress in question weren't even born when Canada dropped the above measures and started adopting the metric system.

Most people under 35 today wouldn't know that a pint used to be a legal measure, the same as they don't have a clue about temperature measured in Fahrenheit.

I bet they're still laughing about the crotchety geek that got bent out of shape over a name.
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You're arguing over legality. I am arguing over the principle ;)

It has nothing to do with where I live. If they want to redefine the pint to the "Whatever" Pint that is their perogative. But they need to define it. Measurements are accepted or rejected based on several factors. One of the main reasons people use measurements is because they are standards.

I don't see your point with Fahrenheit. °F = 9/5 °C + 32. What is there to have a clue about?

Personally every nation should have gone to the metric system long ago. It just makes more sense.
 
Metric is a bit easier for people to figure out being base10 with a lot of things like tool size, small volumes, and weight... but if you grow up on English and °F there is really no problem. I gotta tell you, when I travel abroad I think its silly to see everything sold in liters, kilos, and see the temp in °C. °F is just easy... 0 is really f-ing cold, 32 water freezes, 100 its really f-ing not, and 212 water boils. What else is there to know?
 
sirsloop said:
I gotta tell you, when I travel abroad I think its silly to see everything sold in liters, kilos, and see the temp in °C. °F is just easy... 0 is really f-ing cold, 32 water freezes, 100 its really f-ing not, and 212 water boils. What else is there to know?
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Don't see how it's easier than 0 for freeze and 100 for boil. (Metric)
 
Metric is definitely logically superior, but that doesn't make it any easier to make the switch mid-life. What I don't understand is why American schools just don't switch kids over permanently to metric. I was taught metric as early as second or third grade, but I never really was forced to use it.

I work in architecture, though, and feet & inches still rule. It's amazing how good you get at fraction math when you use it on a daily basis. Most engineers have made the metric switch, but architects are mad slow to make the change.....I think most of them are just too worried about picking out drapes than actually doing architecture. /rant. :drunk:
 
When I started trading eight years ago, stocks were all priced in fractions. The move to decimals had a huge impact on the guys who make markets, but for the rest of us, it's been much easier. Treasury bonds are still a PITA, they get quoted in 32nds, but then there can also be a +tick that indicates that there's a half-32nd in the price... grr, get out the calculator. I know that for the guys who work the Treasury markets all day, it's absolutely second nature to them; for someone like me, who places a Treasury trade only on occassion, it's a PITA.
 
Mikey said:
Posting this on a US-based web site is bound to get lots of sympathy because the US still uses the pint, quart, gallon measure as it's only recognized system.
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I may be wrong but I am fairly certain that both the pint and liter are legal measurements in the US. We have been in a very gradual transition to the metric system system since the 70s, but have not yet thrown off the English system.
Still you may be right about US and UK residents being more sympathetic to a mismeasured "pint".
Craig
 
orfy said:
Don't see how it's easier than 0 for freeze and 100 for boil. (Metric)
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IMHO - For every day life, Fahrenheit makes more sense. Unless I'm in chemistry class, why would I even care what the boiling or freezing temperature of water is? I put the water on the stove and it boils when it boils. I do care how hot or cold it will be on a particular day which Fahrenheit does a better job at.

If you want to make the most sense out of temperature, why not use Kelvin? Why should water be in the spotlight? 0K is absolute zero... something like 295K would be a warm spring day :D
 
Thing to keep in mind sirsloop is that it all boils down to the standard you as an individual are used to. That familiar knowledge with the scale itself is what allows you to relate what you are experiencing as being a certain degree of 'hotness' or 'coolness'. The real problem comes in when someone takes what you are familiar with as a measurement (let's say for the sake of argument A PINT :D) and changes the definition. Can anyone expect that anything less than confusion and problems will result???

The nice thing about the metric scale is that it doesn't matter what you are measuring and you still have a reference point for magnitude.
 
CBBaron said:
...We have been in a very gradual transition to the metric system system since the 70s...
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Yup, my first intro to the metric system was early in high school, but thought it was weird that a certain product was sold in either grams or ounces. :cross:
 
The UK has one strange exception from their use of the metric system: distances and speed limits (at least in the areas with which I am familiar) are posted using miles instead of kilometers.
 
sirsloop said:
IMHO - For every day life, Fahrenheit makes more sense. Unless I'm in chemistry class, why would I even care what the boiling or freezing temperature of water is? :D
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Right you are... Fahrenheit gives measurement of hot and cold on a human scale; as you pointed out, you know that 0 is really F-ing cold, and 100 is really F-ing hot, and you have one hundred gradations in between that perfectly describe the range of normal outside temperatures.
Celsius is great for describing the freezing and boiling points of water, but is just not as relevant to quotidian life; I mean, 0degC is sort of chilly, 34degC is really hot, at 100degC you've long since been dead...

…And a pint should be an F-ing pint! I really wish that they took pub measurements as seriously in America as they do in the UK and Ireland.

And this thread is a bit of a dead horse (a horse that I just beat, I know)
 
GoatFarmersInternational said:
Right you are... Fahrenheit gives measurement of hot and cold on a human scale; as you pointed out, you know that 0 is really F-ing cold, and 100 is really F-ing hot, and you have one hundred gradations in between that perfectly describe the range of normal outside temperatures.
Celsius is great for describing the freezing and boiling points of water, but is just not as relevant to quotidian life; I mean, 0degC is sort of chilly, 34degC is really hot, at 100degC you've long since been dead...
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Damn, you're right! If only I had an antiquated, convoluted system based on an arbitrary scale to make it possible to know whether or not to put a coat on! As it is I only know if it's freezing or boiling. What's a Canandian to do?
 
Arbitrary it may be, but Farenheit is more fine-grained than Celsius unless you're talking using decimals. There are more degrees between 32 and 212 than between 0 and 100. (180 vs. 100).
 
Certainly a decent price for an import so both my friends ordered while I obstained on this occasion. The drinks came and I quickly noticed that the "pints" were served in the Stella Artois 0,4 litre glasses
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I have nothing but respect for establishments that serve a beer in it's proper glass. They served Stella in the proper Stella Artois glass. That to me is more important than the unit of measure advertised. Would you drink Duvel in a pint glass? I wouldn't
 
Chairman Cheyco said:
Damn, you're right! If only I had an antiquated, convoluted system based on an arbitrary scale to make it possible to know whether or not to put a coat on! As it is I only know if it's freezing or boiling. What's a Canandian to do?
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Antiquated? Perhaps. Convoluted? Most certainly.

But I still say that the Fahrenheit scale is more applicable to every day life. And it is not completely arbitrary, either: it describes, on a scale of zero to one hundred, the range of temperature that is livable for a human being. So at 0degF, you might be in danger of freezing to death, at 100degF, you might be in danger of suffering from heat stroke.
 
Buford said:
Arbitrary it may be, but Farenheit is more fine-grained than Celsius unless you're talking using decimals. There are more degrees between 32 and 212 than between 0 and 100. (180 vs. 100).
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How fine does it need to be for everyday use like you're talking about? Do you put a coat on when it hit 51F, or do you put one on when it hits the low 50s? The thinking that Celcius is "less relevant to quotidian life" is completely narrow minded. Both scales are equally usable to those which know them and are used to them.
 
GoatFarmersInternational said:
Right you are... Fahrenheit gives measurement of hot and cold on a human scale; as you pointed out, you know that 0 is really F-ing cold, and 100 is really F-ing hot, and you have one hundred gradations in between that perfectly describe the range of normal outside temperatures.
Celsius is great for describing the freezing and boiling points of water, but is just not as relevant to quotidian life; I mean, 0degC is sort of chilly, 34degC is really hot, at 100degC you've long since been dead...

…And a pint should be an F-ing pint! I really wish that they took pub measurements as seriously in America as they do in the UK and Ireland.

And this thread is a bit of a dead horse (a horse that I just beat, I know)
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So the humans that were brought up knowing only the Celsius system (this being the overwhelming majority of the world, as the US is the last country to still use degrees F) cannot relate to that system on a human scale?

Ouch. :drunk:
 
sirsloop said:
IMHO - For every day life, Fahrenheit makes more sense. Unless I'm in chemistry class, why would I even care what the boiling or freezing temperature of water is? I put the water on the stove and it boils when it boils. I do care how hot or cold it will be on a particular day which Fahrenheit does a better job at.

If you want to make the most sense out of temperature, why not use Kelvin? Why should water be in the spotlight? 0K is absolute zero... something like 295K would be a warm spring day :D
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Knowing that 32 is crucial for people who drive where it can freeze, have irrigation pipes, etc. Knowing that water boils at a lower temp at elevation is very important for people who live in higher locales, as cooking times need to be adjusted.

While I don't use the liter every day, you can bet that I know it's not equivalent to a quart, and if someone were to buy a 2 liter bottle of coke and get two quarts, they'd get in trouble for fraud.
 
aseelye said:
Knowing that 32 is crucial for people who drive where it can freeze, have irrigation pipes, etc. Knowing that water boils at a lower temp at elevation is very important for people who live in higher locales, as cooking times need to be adjusted.

While I don't use the liter every day, you can bet that I know it's not equivalent to a quart, and if someone were to buy a 2 liter bottle of coke and get two quarts, they'd get in trouble for fraud.
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But water DOESN'T freeze at 32, it freezes at 0. In the metric world.
 
yeah it's definetly a train wreck so I guess I'll chime in on Metric now . . .

the below ismage is representative of my thoughts on metric mesurments . . .

middle_finger_flame.jpg
 
Mikey said:
So the humans that were brought up knowing only the Celsius system (this being the overwhelming majority of the world, as the US is the last country to still use degrees F) cannot relate to that system on a human scale?

Ouch. :drunk:
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I've spent several years of my life in a country that uses Celsius, though I was born and raised in the US. Of course Celsius can be related on a human scale, so could Kelvin, cones, rankines or any other measure of temperature... The point is that Fahrenheit uses as its scale what one might expect the normal range of ambient temperature to be in a temperate climate... So that on most days the temperature falls somewhere between the zero point and the one hundred point, compared something along the lines of minus fifteen and forty.
 
So your scale's got more increments than my scale hey?
We'll see about that.

I'm getting bored now. I think I'll go find the batch Vs. fly sparge thread.
 
should've tip better, unless the waitress was getting fussy with you and you were just being explanatory.

my 2 cents, had to get a post on this thread before it dies :D
 

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