Troubleshooting Sulfur

[Brockness Monster]

My Belgian Single is throwing sulfur 2 weeks after bottling. I have never (when I used to brew before) had a problem with sulfur before, and there was no detectable sulfur at bottling. Luckily, I know that it will dissipate with time, but I want to know what caused it in the first place. So far, I have come to the following potential issues.

• Lack of copper in my brewing rig.
• Brewing outside, transferring to translucent PET fermenter outside, light-struck pre fermentation?
• There were some foamy yeast rafts a full week after reaching FG, maybe an infection or secondary fermentation that was interrupted at bottling.

Some info

WLP530 fermented at 68F reached 74F at high Krausen (according to sticker thermometer)
OG: 1.043
FG: 1.006 tested at 7 days and again at 10 days w/ no change
5.1% ABV
Grain bill was Pils, Vienna and flaked oats w/ raw cane sugar added at boil
Magnum @ FWH
Amarillo @ 15
Whirfloc @ 15
Wyeast Nutrient @ 15
1.2L starter @ 1.008 (not a builder, just vitality) w/ 1 packet WLP530
Shake aeration
Open fermentation until after high krausen (sanitized foil cover)

There was a short period of sulfur smell with both this batch and the Tripel shortly after high krausen, but they both dissipated to a very pleasant bready, estery smell. I haven't tried one of my Tripels yet to see if it has the same problem, but I should go ahead and do that.

 

[IslandLizard]

With "sulphur" smell you're referring to a rotten egg smell?
If so, that's H2S (Hydrogen Sulfide). Often a byproduct when the yeast is stressed. It can be removed/driven off by slowly bubbling CO2 through the beer, such as using a CO2 cylinder and an "oxygenation" stone.

Per Lallemand:

There are a wide range of sulfur compounds in beer.
Hydrogen sulfide (H2S) is of particular interest because its presence is related to the yeast strain and metabolism.
H2S is a very small molecule, known in the brewing industry since the end of the 19th century.

H2S can be created when the yeast is stressed, for example by a lack of the right nutrients.
Or are you perhaps using any sulphur products in your brewing process, such as larger amounts of Metabisulfite?

Ah, I found a discussion thread here addressing the same issue:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/wlp530-abbey-ale-sulfur-smell.333272/

 

[Dgallo]

Sulfur is a fermentation byproduct from yeast, especially when stressed Some strains produce much more than other, take 34/70 for example. What the issue is, is the H2s is dissolved in the beer and you did not give your beer enough time to degass it in the fermenter. If it were in a keg, you could degass the beer through agitation and pulling the prv, then recarb it, Unfortunately since your beer is bottled and not in a keg, there’s nothing you can do to rectify the bottles

That being, you can fix it when your pour it. Copper ions break the bonds of H2S rapidly. So if you get yourself a copper spoon, place it in the pint glass before pouring, then pour hard into the glass. Once the beer settles, stir it with the spoon and the sulfur should be no longer noticeable

 

[IslandLizard]

That being, you can fix it when your pour it. Copper ions break the bonds of H2S rapidly. So if you get yourself a copper spoon, place it on the pint glass before pouring, then pour hard into the glass. Once the beer settles, stir it with the spoon and the sulfur should be no longer noticeable

Excellent suggestion! I wasn't aware of that method.

If you don't have a copper spoon (who does?), possibly a short length of 1/2" diameter copper pipe can be used. You can get it in a hardware store or plumbing supply.
Whatever tool you use, make sure it's copper NOT brass!

 

[Dgallo]

Excellent suggestion! I wasn't aware of that method.

If you don't have a copper spoon (who does?), possibly a short length of 1/2" diameter copper pipe can be used. You can get it in a hardware store or plumbing supply.
Whatever tool you use, make sure it's copper NOT brass!

A buddy of mine who is a pro told me that a few years back.

The copper pipe will work, but you would have to clean it very well before using it as there may be solutions left on it from manufacturing. If you go to the kitchen section at any department store you should be able to find a food safe option of something copper that you can use.

 

[Brockness Monster]

Not Hydrogen Sulfide, more like Sulfur Dioxide. Similar to what you get in some lagers. Yeast could be stressed but unlikely. I had plenty of cells with a vitality starter and yeast nutrient. The only thing that was low was oxygen, but only low as compared to pure O2. It is also not a heavy smell, but enough that I know it's there and it's not pleasant. Yeast in the bottle plus the bit of oxygen should clear it up in 3-6 weeks. This strain doesn't seem to be known for sulfur past the initial fermentation phase so I keep looking for something in my process that I could have done wrong.

 

[Dgallo]

Not Hydrogen Sulfide, more like Sulfur Dioxide. Similar to what you get in some lagers. Yeast could be stressed but unlikely. I had plenty of cells with a vitality starter and yeast nutrient. The only thing that was low was oxygen, but only low as compared to pure O2. It is also not a heavy smell, but enough that I know it's there and it's not pleasant. Yeast in the bottle plus the bit of oxygen should clear it up in 3-6 weeks. This strain doesn't seem to be known for sulfur past the initial fermentation phase so I keep looking for something in my process that I could have done wrong.

We’ll take my advice or don’t, but it is correct. I think you’re correct that it’s technically SO2. Yeast does not remotabolize sulfur, only getting the gas out of solution will. If you want to add more o2 and potentially oxidize the batch, that’s your call.

Also, there is nothing in process that will cause sulfur, unless you’re adding it. Only yeast will do that

 

[Brockness Monster]

Hmm, from what I have read, sulfur always dissipates in 3-6 weeks of bottling. However, I have never had a sulfur issue so I am not positive. Guess I better be ready to dump it all. The oxygen I was referring to is the oxygen introduced at bottling (mostly used up by yeast) and the very tiny ingress of oxygen over time through the seal of the bottle cap. I understand I can't really rely on them, so I am hoping more for a chemical breakdown or reaction into something a little more innocuous

 

[BrewZer]

Hmm, from what I have read, sulfur always dissipates in 3-6 weeks of bottling. However, I have never had a sulfur issue so I am not positive. Guess I better be ready to dump it all. The oxygen I was referring to is the oxygen introduced at bottling (mostly used up by yeast) and the very tiny ingress of oxygen over time through the seal of the bottle cap. I understand I can't really rely on them, so I am hoping more for a chemical breakdown or reaction into something a little more innocuous

Did you bottle it or keg it? If bottled, pour over that copper spoon. If kegged, put a short piece of copper tubing in the delivery line.

 

[wepeeler]

I think the 74F and a 10 day fermentation/packaging is your culprit, and you just may not have picked up on it while bottling. That's out of range for the yeast, stressing it, and packaging so quickly didn't give the chance for the yeast to clean itself up.

 

[MaxStout]

Excellent suggestion! I wasn't aware of that method.

If you don't have a copper spoon (who does?), possibly a short length of 1/2" diameter copper pipe can be used. You can get it in a hardware store or plumbing supply.
Whatever tool you use, make sure it's copper NOT brass!

Drop a couple pennies in the glass.

Just my $.02.

 

[Bramling Cross]

I think the 74F and a 10 day fermentation/packaging is your culprit, and you just may not have picked up on it while bottling. That's out of range for the yeast, stressing it, and packaging so quickly didn't give the chance for the yeast to clean itself up.

I haven't seriously brewed Belgians in about fifteen years, but one lesson that I did learn (and took to heart) is to pitch obnoxiously big and pitch around 60F, then let it start rising once the fermentation establishes itself. I think you may have been stressed on the high side, which I'll admit is counter intuitive.

Being short on oxygen, as you mentioned, is also not good. Nutrients and oxygen aren't either/or requirements, you need 'em both at the appropriate levels. A lack of oxygen can cause stress if you're not pitching obnoxiously big. [Edit: that's wrong! Pitch obnoxiously big and ensure that you have a modest surplus of oxygen. I don't brew Belgians anymore, but I still use a pure oxygen rig because I learned from Belgian brewing the critical quality that oxygen plays.]

Also, Belgian yeast is the most cat-like of all the beer yeasts. It will softly purr in your lap for twelve batches in a row while you calmly read your book, then it will instantly decide that your face must be destroyed, attempt to cut it to ribbons, then go back to softly purring on your lap.

 

[Brockness Monster]

Ok, yeast, got it.

 

[Brockness Monster]

Just tried one of Tripels from the batch before and it is completely flat. So far WLP530 is giving me the big finger.

 

[Bramling Cross]

Also, I wouldn't worry too much about the lack of copper in your brewery. SOP for a modern commercial brewery avoids copper like you avoid that weirdo on the subway that has thoughts he'd like to share with you. I run a LODO-ish brewery, but I'll be damned if I'll ever give up my gigantic copper immersion chiller--it does a brilliant job and it's paid for, paid for being the really important characteristic. I frequently get a bit of sulfur on my initial pitches on a new run of lager yeast (which I love), so I don't put much stock in the idea that copper in your brewery solves sulfur.

You can confidently scrawl a big red "X" over the picture of copper on your suspects board.

 

[Dgallo]

Also, I wouldn't worry too much about the lack of copper in your brewery. SOP for a modern commercial brewery avoids copper like you avoid that weirdo on the subway that has thoughts he'd like to share with you. I run a LODO-ish brewery, but I'll be damned if I'll ever give up my gigantic copper immersion chiller--it does a brilliant job and it's paid for, paid for being the really important characteristic. I frequently get a bit of sulfur on my initial pitches on a new run of lager yeast (which I love), so I don't put much stock in the idea that copper in your brewery solves sulfur.

You can confidently scrawl a big red "X" over the picture of copper on your suspects board.

I agree you shouldn’t have copper around to fix sulfur. But if you’re impatient and don’t let it degass (on lagers or strains notorious for it), it’s a way to correct your mistake. Hopefully it’s a lesson only needed to be learned once lol. I have a set of old copper spoons from my grandma and it came in handy the one time i packaged a beer without dealing with the sulfur first

 

[Brockness Monster]

Looking at my notes, it was brewed on 7/4, bottled on 7/26. Gravity reading on 7/12 said 1.005, gravity reading on 7/15 said 1.005. So day 8 and 11 had same gravity reading, terminal is reached. Actually waited until day 22 to bottle, so my days were off, but it had plenty of time to off gas and there was no detectable sulfur at bottling. Could the yeast be throwing off sulfur from bottling sugars?

 

[Bramling Cross]

I agree you shouldn’t have copper around to fix sulfur. But if you’re impatient and don’t let it degass (on lagers or strains notorious for it), it’s a way to correct your mistake. Hopefully it’s a lesson only needed to be learned once lol. I have a set of old copper spoons from my grandma and it came in handy the one time i packaged a beer without dealing with the sulfur first

Aw, nuts, Dgallo, I wasn't trying to suggest you were wrong. You clearly know your way around a mash tun and I have a decades old copper reducer that I use for exactly that task. It does work.

My remarks were aimed at getting at the root causes. I wasn't trying to throw shade.

 

[Dgallo]

Aw, nuts, Dgallo, I wasn't trying to suggest you were wrong. You clearly know your way around a mash tun and I have a decades old copper reducer that I use for exactly that task. It does work.

My remarks were aimed at getting at the root causes. I wasn't trying to throw shade.

Oh I didn’t think that at all. All love brother!

 

[Dgallo]

Looking at my notes, it was brewed on 7/4, bottled on 7/26. Gravity reading on 7/12 said 1.005, gravity reading on 7/15 said 1.005. So day 8 and 11 had same gravity reading, terminal is reached. Actually waited until day 22 to bottle, so my days were off, but it had plenty of time to off gas and there was no detectable sulfur at bottling. Could the yeast be throwing off sulfur from bottling sugars?

This info could open up a can of worms in your issue. Assuming everything was good going into bottles, meaning no sulfur at the time, then a possible cause could be you had a very low cell count at packaging due to floccuation, and they were stressed during a slight regrown phase to carb the beer. This is rather unlikely as you should still have plenty of yeast in suspension to carb 22 days after pitch.

Another cause is the bottles were stored too hot, and they remaining yeast were stressed when the were eating the priming sugar.

Unfortunately, here is the can of worms, a potential infection. Wild yeast/bacteria are known for producing sulfur and many other undesirable off flavors/aromas. So this potential is there.

Here is another question, how did you prime? Did you batch prime, water and sugar solution to a bottling bucket or fermenter? And if so, are you on a well? If the answer is yes to this, there is the potential for you to have a high level of sulfur in your water and that is what’s causing it. That said if you had sulfurous water, I wouldn’t think you’d use it in the first place but figured I’d ask to cancel out a possible variable

 

[Brockness Monster]

I'm on city water that I filter, batch primed the beer in a keg and bottled with a beer gun, and stored bottles in a room that sits at around 75F. I am not ruling infection out as a cause. This yeast flocculates really well for a Belgian strain (most Belgian strains purportedly come from British strains) and I purposely picked up a little yeast off the bottom when I racked because it was so clear. So stressed yeast in the bottle is possible as well. Obviously need to keep an eye on my sanitation to make sure the chance of infection is as close to zero as possible.

 

[dmtaylor]

I haven't read the thread yet, but I can tell you the cure for sulfur:

TIME

Give it another week or two, maybe even three, but that sulfur is going to be gone in time. I guarantee it. No amount of worrying or dicking around is going to resolve this. All you need is TIME.

 

[Dgallo]

I haven't read the thread yet, but I can tell you the cure for sulfur:

TIME

Give it another week or two, maybe even three, but that sulfur is going to be gone in time. I guarantee it. No amount of worrying or dicking around is going to resolve this. All you need is TIME.

What makes sulfur break down? I thought it could only off gas

 

[Brockness Monster]

I haven't read the thread yet, but I can tell you the cure for sulfur:

TIME

Give it another week or two, maybe even three, but that sulfur is going to be gone in time. I guarantee it. No amount of worrying or dicking around is going to resolve this. All you need is TIME.

I was your posts from older threads that gave me better peace of mind about it.

 

[dmtaylor]

What makes sulfur break down? I thought it could only off gas

Sulfur is highly reactive with everything. Look at it wrong, it reacts. Wait 2 weeks, it reacts. And it usually reacts to form compounds that we don't hate as much.

 

[Dgallo]

Sulfur is highly reactive with everything. Look at it wrong, it reacts. Wait 2 weeks, it reacts. And it usually reacts to form compounds that we don't hate as much.

Good to know. I have always been under the impression that when it’s packaged already (kegs until you knock it out/degass and bottles indefinitely), it will be in the beer until the glass.

 

[MaxStout]

Sulfur is highly reactive with everything. Look at it wrong, it reacts. Wait 2 weeks, it reacts. And it usually reacts to form compounds that we don't hate as much.

Introduce sulfur to your girlfriend and it'll run off with her. But only for a while, as sulfur doesn't last.

The few times I've encountered sulfur aroma early on (in fermentation or at bottling) it disappeared after a few weeks or so.

Patience, grasshopper.

 

[Pennine]

I haven't read the thread yet, but I can tell you the cure for sulfur:

TIME

Give it another week or two, maybe even three, but that sulfur is going to be gone in time. I guarantee it. No amount of worrying or dicking around is going to resolve this. All you need is TIME.

This is my advice too. I have wasted a lot of CO2 trying to off gas sulfur from kegs to no avail. Nothing better than a couple of weeks.

If you can't wait pour and then swirl a bit and let your beer sit for 5 minutes The sulfur should dissipate.

 

[Brockness Monster]

Had a bottle last night. Sulfur has reduced quite a bit. Still tasting a little green for 3 weeks in the bottle. Super crisp and light. This is going to be a warm weather refresher for sure. Going to try it with WLP500 & WLP550 to see what kind of belgian character works better and see if i have the same sulfur issues.

 

[Sipina]

Had a bottle last night. Sulfur has reduced quite a bit. Still tasting a little green for 3 weeks in the bottle. Super crisp and light. This is going to be a warm weather refresher for sure. Going to try it with WLP500 & WLP550 to see what kind of belgian character works better and see if i have the same sulfur issues.

3 weeks in bottle is usually not enough with belgian yeasts to have a properly conditioned beer as you have noticed; you've still got time