Pint is a legal measure and not subjective.

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Nostrildamus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
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Location
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Alright, a post on another one of the forums here got me thinking about my biggest gripe when it comes to drinking in establishments around Vancouver, British Columbia. Maybe you can relate or have similar stories, if so please as therapy to my beer drinking pysche, provide them below.

Here's my gripe:

Here in the most expensive city in Canada it seems as though the word pint (UK = .568 litre or US = .473 litre) is a subjective term. Countless bars and restaurants in the Greater Vancouver Area have taken to calling 0.4 litre vessels, otherwise known as glasses, pints. There is an absolute and utter refusal to except the fact that the word pint denotes a legal measurement. This of course has led to confrontation on several occasions when I have been drinking in such establishments. One such story derived from myself and two friends going to a restaurant for lunch in the expensive Kitsilano area of Vancouver. We sat down and my friends noticed that on the chalk board above the bar there was scrawled, "Pints of Stella $4.50". Certainly a decent price for an import so both my friends ordered while I obstained on this occasion. The drinks came and I quickly noticed that the "pints" were served in the Stella Artois 0,4 litre glasses (the comma being the European version of the period). I called the waitress back and told her nicely that my friends ordered pints and that she brought them glasses. She looked at me dumbfounded and said, "Those are pints!"
I turned the glass so that the line (which the untouched beer level was below) and 0,4 were facing her and said, "No, you see right there it says these are 0.4 of a litre and a pint is 0.473 or just over half a litre so these are glasses."
Still stunned she looks at the glasses, looks back me, back at the glasses and says, "Well, that's what we call pints!"
I then started to get a little hot under the collar and said, "No. A pint is a legal measure and whether you were indicating US or Imperial pints on your chalk board there these are neither and you need to go get my friends pints or charge them less."
The server then walked away totally confused and walked up to the bartender and told him the story. He stood there shaking his head and I could see he was pissed off. There was a moments inaction and then he said something to the server. She went and retrieved a wet rag and wiped off the chalk board and rewrote it "Glasses of Stella $4.50". I later walked up to the bartender and questioned him about the "pint" confusion and he said that that was the standard serving size in Kitsilano and are what he referred to as a "Kitsilano Pint". I told him that it was pretty cheap and a bit dis-honest and tipped him and the server one cent and walked out.
On that day, I started The Banned List and refuse to return to establishments which continue this practice.

And that ladies and gentlemen is why I home brew and drink real pints for $0.60 or less!!! Praise be to the Home Brew Gods! Fight the power brothers and sisters.
 
OCD much???

Drink the "pint", don't tip well, and don't come back. No need to piss on the waitress or bartender. Its not their fault the establishment uses glasses for "pints"...

IMHO, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
 
Your reaction seems a little extreme to me. They changed the board. I'd bet that very few servers, barthenders or even owners know the difference between a legitimate pint glass and a standard glass
 
I understand Nostrildamus's frustration. Has happened to me before as well. It's right up there with getting served a nice tap Micro or Import in a plastic mug.
 
First, I agree that one virtually never gets a pint of beer when ordering a pint (in North America, anyway), and it is a minor nuicance.

But, as other's have said, it's certainly an overreaction to abuse the staff over such a small thing.

I have several "pint" glasses, and they are just about the right size for pouring a 12 oz bottle with a proper head. They might conceivably hold 16 ozs if you filled them to the brim with no head. I suspect a pint in a North American bar is generally 12 or 13 oz of beer.
 
iggy_fenton said:
I understand Nostrildamus's frustration. Has happened to me before as well. It's right up there with getting served a nice tap Micro or Import in a plastic mug.

That I can understand...but making a pissing match scene over .073 L is absurd. I make it a point not to get upset over things like this because its not worth the aggravation. It may not seem like a hassle to do this once, but after years of acting this way you end up becoming a mean old f*** that complains constantly about every little thing.
 
Wow, nice personal attack. At what point did I "piss on the waitress"?

After working in management for years I know that the number one hardest customer to please is the one which says nothing and walks away pissed off. You have no chance to rectify the situation which they found unsatisfactory. Taking an apathetic approach enables the poor management of establishments and their continuing errors and unsatisfactory service. This is precisely why organizations like CAMRA exist (http://www.camra.org.uk/). I gave this establishment two chances to rectify the situation without cursing, without yelling and certainly without "pissing on" the help, both of which stood inactive up until changing their false advertising.

It was these two indivduals fault for calling glasses pints. The words came from their mouths unless management had their hands up their asses making their mouths move like a ventriloquis'ts puppet. They both called glasses, pints and reconfirmed this when asked a second time. Considering the glasses contained what looked like 0.38 litres and the advertised price was low and enticing I'd call that a reasonable and warranted complaint.
 
try looking at it another way... when you actually do find a place that serves pints in pint glasses, tell the barkeep or waitress that you appreciate actually getting a full pint at their establishment. You pass on your positive vibe which can make someones day. Thats worth the hassle in my book.
 
I'm with the majority, here, Nostrildamus - it's very un-dude to get bent out of shape about a few sips of beer. Granted, I see the general point but in the end it sounds like it was the lesser of two 'injustices'.

Regardless, I have never noticed that problem around here. Solid pints are the norm - and $4.50 is about the going rate out of town, a few buck more in town.
 
sirsloop said:
try looking at it another way... when you actually do find a place that serves pints in pint glasses, tell the barkeep or waitress that you appreciate actually getting a full pint at their establishment. You pass on your positive vibe which can make someones day. Thats worth the hassle.

Yes! I make a point of thanking people for their thoughtfulness when I see them scooping their dog's poop (rather than ***** at people when they don't, although I'd like to.) People seem to find the little bit of positive reinforcement surprising, and I'll probably live longer this way.
 
I kind of agree with you. A unit of measurement is a unit of measurement. Not sure how I would have handled it the same as it wasn't the staff's fault. But don't be fooled, it is about dollars and cents and they are taking advantage by manipulating the truth. That is why they have those glasses with the measurement line with excess room for the head above the line. An upright establishment will fill the glass to the line with beer. If I went to the store and buy a 500 mL bottle and it is %84 full, I'd point out that there was an obvious issue.

Related--- they probably thought you were trying to muscle some free beer and got peeved at you, which may have been the reason for added tension.
 
Nostrildamus said:
No, you see right there it says these are 0.4 of a litre and a pint is 0.473 or just over half a litre so these are glasses.

I guess I don't get it. If a pint is .473 of a liter and the glass was .4 of a liter, then the difference that you were making such a fuss about was only 73 THOUSANDTHS of a pint? Can you even measure that? What is that.. a drop? They were probably glad to see you go.
 
Dave R said:
I guess I don't get it. If a pint is .473 of a liter and the glass was .4 of a liter, then the difference that you were making such a fuss about was only 73 THOUSANDTHS of a pint? Can you even measure that? What is that.. a drop? They were probably glad to see you go.

FWIW, the difference is about an ounce and a half.
 
Nostrildamus said:
This is precisely why organizations like CAMRA exist
You are totally reinforcing my opinion that CAMRA people wear camo, staple beer propaganda to telephone poles, and do physical training in the wee hours of the morning before going out and saving the beer-drinking world.

....Referencing months-ago iceberg I accidentaly crashed into on this topic. ;)
 
Dave R said:
I guess I don't get it. If a pint is .473 of a liter and the glass was .4 of a liter, then the difference that you were making such a fuss about was only 73 THOUSANDTHS of a pint? Can you even measure that? What is that.. a drop? They were probably glad to see you go.

Not sure if you see it correctly. That means it was shy by %15
 
In the UK a pint is a pint is a pint
A land lord is legally bound to supply a pint of beer. A beer is allowed to have a reasonable head. Most establishments serve in a marked pint glass with extra room for the head.
Any drinker worth his salt will make sure that he gets a full pint plus head. Most barmen will serve, let settle for a few seconds then top back up.
If a crap pub without beer engines use automated serving taps then they have to be certified to serve the correct measure.

Serving a short measure in the UK is likely to lead to injury of the offending barman. (Fighting talk) The pint is sacred!!!!!

LEAVE MY PINT ALONE.

:D

Fiery Sword said:
You are totally reinforcing my opinion that CAMRA people wear camo, staple beer propaganda to telephone poles, and do physical training in the wee hours of the morning before going out and saving the beer-drinking world.

....Referencing months-ago iceberg I accidentaly crashed into on this topic.

I'm a member of CAMRA, that's one of the reasons I get a full pint and we have a fair bit of "Real Ale" to drink. If more people joined there would be more good beer and better pubs to drink it in with better educated staff.

Now in Europe, you get a little beer in a little glass with a load of froth!
 
Nostrildamus said:
rdwj do you tip when someone brings you three quarters of your meal and makes no effort to make up for it?

You didn't order beer with your meal - so you were out nothing. And even so, it's not the fault of the waitress. She also didn't ignore you - she told the bartender and actually had the sign changed.

I don't know what else you could have expected her to do. You said she got the drinks quickly - which is her part of the bargin. You should have tipped her on that alone. Any problem you have with portions should be directed to the manager. Don't take it out on the poor server trying to make a living.

Sorry, that's just rude and truly EAC material.
 
Alright look at it this way. What my friends received was closer to a bottle than a pint (.038 litres when a bottle is .033 litres). If you ordered a pint, and in Canada outside of Quebec we use Imperial pints (.568 litres) more often than US pints, and you instead received a bottle would you pay the pint price and not bring it to the servers attention?
 
WALTER
****ing dog has papers, Dude.--Over
the line!

Over the line, Smokey! I'm sorry.
That's a foul.

SMOKEY
Bull****. Eight, Dude.

WALTER
Excuse me! Mark it zero. Next frame.

SMOKEY
Bull****. Walter!

WALTER
This is not Nam. This is bowling.
There are rules.

DUDE
Come on Walter, it's just--it's
Smokey. So his toe slipped over a
little, it's just a game.

WALTER
This is a league game. This
determines who enters the next round-
robin, am I wrong?

SMOKEY
Yeah, but--

WALTER
Am I wrong!?

SMOKEY
Yeah, but I wasn't over. Gimme the
marker, Dude, I'm marking it an
eight.

Walter takes out a gun.

WALTER
Smokey my friend, you're entering a
world of pain.

DUDE
Hey Walter--

WALTER
Mark that frame an eight, you're
entering a world of pain.

SMOKEY
I'm not--

WALTER
A world of pain.

SMOKEY
Look Dude, I don't hold with this.
This guy is your partner, you should--

WALTER
HAS THE WHOLE WORLD GONE CRAZY? AM
I THE ONLY ONE HERE WHO GIVES A ****
ABOUT THE RULES? MARK IT ZERO!

DUDE
Walter, they're calling the cops,
put the piece away.

WALTER
MARK IT ZERO!

SMOKEY
Walter--

WALTER
YOU THINK I'M ****ING AROUND HERE?
MARK IT ZERO!!

SMOKEY
All right! There it is! It's ****ing
zero!

SMOKEY
You happy, you crazy ****?

WALTER
This is a league game, Smokey!
 
I have to side with Nostrildamus on this. If they call it a glass, mug or a bottle then the amount is not specified... hey no problem. But if they are selling something based on a unit of measurement then it should contain that amount. How many people here would be upset if the local grocery store advertised a dozen eggs for $0.50 and then found out that there were only 10 eggs per "dozen"? Its false advertisement plain and simple and if someone doesn't call them out on it, they keep doing it. I mean why stop there why not say 1 Gallon for $4.50?
 
Nostrildamus said:
Alright look at it this way. What my friends received was closer to a bottle than a pint (.038 litres when a bottle is .033 litres). If you ordered a pint, and in Canada outside of Quebec we use Imperial pints (.568 litres) more often than US pints, and you instead received a bottle would you pay the pint price and not bring it to the servers attention?

The point several people have made is not that you were wrong to bring it to the server's attention. That was reasonable. But she did every reasonable thing you could have expected her to do--she told the bartender and she changed the sign. To withold a decent tip from her and/or berate her under the circumstances is what people are saying was inappropriate. Your beef was with the management, not her, right?
 
Nostrildamus said:
Alright look at it this way. What my friends received was closer to a bottle than a pint (.038 litres when a bottle is .033 litres). If you ordered a pint, and in Canada outside of Quebec we use Imperial pints (.568 litres) more often than US pints, and you instead received a bottle would you pay the pint price and not bring it to the servers attention?

No, I wouldn't - but I think bringing it to their attention is fine. It's the way you did it that I have a problem with. Stiffing a waitress does nothing but hurt her - and she has NOTHING to do with the ordering glassware for the business.
 
zoebisch01 said:
Not sure if you see it correctly. That means it was shy by %15
Ok, like I said, I'm not getting it. Math is not my strong point. If you divide 4/10ths of a liter of beer into 1000ths and put 73/1000ths into a glass, you're saying it would be about an ounce and a half?? Geez, I feel stupid! Too many homebrews today I guess.

Either way, yes, you should get what you pay for, but I wouldn't have stiffed the waitress.
 
At which stage of alcoholism are you when you start bitching about being a shot short of a pint?

You had the option to not buy the glass. You had the option to say, this looks small. Can you fix it?
 
Nostrildamus said:
On that day, I started The Banned List and refuse to return to establishments which continue this practice.


If it was my bar, I would of done the same thing....But your name and picture would have been the very first name on there
 
Dave R said:
Ok, like I said, I'm not getting it. Math is not my strong point. If you divide 4/10ths of a liter of beer into 1000ths and put 73/1000ths into a glass, it would be about an ounce and a half? Geez, I feel stupid! Too many homebrews today I guess.

1 liter = about 33 ounces

so .1 liter = 3.3 ounces

so .073 liter = about 3/4 of 3.3 ounces
 
The method may not be right but it's simple if you have paid for a pint you should get a pint.

I'm afraid if I was in there I'd of tipped the waitress but paid $4.50 - 15% for the pint - 15%
 
The waitress and bartender where the ones responsible for the writing on the chalkboard and then they took to defensive arguing saying there was nothing wrong with serving .038 litres when a pint was ordered and advertised. I hold them directly accountable for their actions and their tip reflects their unwillingness to do anything about the situation. The tip is a reflection of their performance and has nothing to do with the management. There was no manager there as I asked for him/her. We arrived to an empty restaurant fifteen minutes after opening and there was no imposition of time placed on the server nor on the bartender to provide a sufficient explanation. They instead told me that they had done nothing wrong and that a pint could be a subjective term. Not until I pressed the point a second time did they change the chalkboard advertisment.

I would have had no problem whatsoever with the situation had the server stated that it was an oversight and they should change it to glasses rather pints.
 
NOW I get it! I WAS looking at it wrong. It's 400/1000, not 4/10! So 73 out of 400 WOULD be about 15%. God, This was bugging me! LOL. Sorry guys.
 
Actually it is close to 2.5 oz in all that was short from a regular pint. Imo, it's all about the principle. Kind of the same if you bought a gallon of gas and they shorted you half quart. The numbers are pretty much the same ratios as in the example.
 
Dave R said:
NOW I get it! I WAS looking at it wrong. It's 400/1000, not 4/10! So 73 out of 400 WOULD be about 15%. God, This was bugging me! LOL. Sorry guys.


lol man. I hope I didn't come across as an @sshat when I pointed that out. :fro:
 
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