Belgian Golden Strong Ale Pink Elephant (Delirium Tremens clone)

[markusreadus]

I've just bottled this, was in primary for 5 weeks. Crystal clear, despite having no fridge to cold crash. I rack from primary into a another tun for bottling with an auto-siphon, leaving the trub behind.

Second interesting observation was that, yes, this unusual mash schedule creates an insanely fermentable wort. This went from 1.072 to 1.000. Yes, 1.000; I got that reading on two separate occasions before bottling. Lower than I wanted. I'm carbing to 4.0vol/litre to try and give it more body.

Tastes pretty damned good though. The ginger and peppery spices are coming through nicely, I dont detect get much fruit yet though.

 

[Shenanigans]

Sounds like a great beer to brew. The bottle store down the road from me got this beer in a few months ago but haven't tried it yet. I think I'll have to try it this weekend.

S-04 at those kind of temperatures though ipe:
On it's own it would give off a pile of esters and taste like sour apples.
The off flavours must blend somehow with the rest of the ingredients or else it's suppressed by the WLP570.

Anyway I'm going to give it a go. Will even invest in the very expensive Grains of Paradise.

Will probably add it to my spring schedule so that it is nice and matured for Christmas.

 

[markusreadus]

I brewed this, and somehow ended up with a FG of 1.000. Measured it several times! Very fermentable wort.

It tastes fantastic however. Had one yesterday, and I strongly recommend this beer. Mine was a bit sharp at first, but after 3 months it's tasting great.

 

[fun4stuff]

Brewed this beginning of December 2015. It really improved after about two months. Probably one of the best beers I've made.

 

[brewuuhu]

I love Delirium Tremens and this recipe looks great so I'm planning to make this pretty soon. I got all the ingredients but I can't find grains of paradise anywhere around here (Finland). Any ideas on what I could use to substitute if I don't succeed in finding any? Just black peppers? Maybe with a bit of cardamom?

Thanks!

 

[Kee]

I love Delirium Tremens and this recipe looks great so I'm planning to make this pretty soon. I got all the ingredients but I can't find grains of paradise anywhere around here (Finland). Any ideas on what I could use to substitute if I don't succeed in finding any? Just black peppers? Maybe with a bit of cardamom?

Thanks!

Black pepper will work. I don't know if the amount should be the same or not. It's been my experience that spice strength can vary a lot.

 

[jesseb]

Hi there,

As I'm about to brew this recipe, I've had a question about the yeast. I want to create a starter for the liquid yeast, but how about the dry one? No need to create a starter for dry yeast right? Perhaps just rehydrate it and pitch both yeast simultaneously after cooling?

Looking forward for this brew, Delirium Tremens is one of the best beers in my opinion and I'm really curious how close to the real deal I can get!

 

[CrewDog]

We just brewed this a few weekends ago. We pitched the liquid straight. One reason was just timing the other was I figured we had plenty of cells with the dry yeast and the liquid combined.

I can't tell you how it tastes yet. We modified the recipe a bit due to ingredients that we had on hand. A buddy of mine brewed it before he deployed. I'll try to have an awesome beer ready to go for him when he gets back!

 

[deuce40]

What's the batch size of the original post. Also what's the og, to many lists to go through on this one

 

[deuce40]

What's the og and batch size of the original recipe, too many posts to go through.

 

[Kee]

What's the og and batch size of the original recipe, too many posts to go through.

The recipe on page 1 is for a 3 gallon batch. Post #73 scales it up to 5 gallons, but of course you can scale it up to whatever size batch you desire.

 

[deuce40]

Awesome thanks for the info

 

[mauser]

Brewed 5.5 gals of this 10 days ago. Used 2 packs of slightly expired Danstar Abbaye, rehydrated. Fermented at 19.5C, very vigorously. Haven't checked the FG yet, but a little sample I took out of it tastes amazing. This is a solid recipe. Thanks!

 

[brewuuhu]

Plan to brew this some time this weekend. Got all the ingredients, but was wondering about a couple of things.

1. LHBS didn't have the WLP580 or equivalent, so I got wyeast 3787 - Trappist High Gravity, I guess that should work fine?
2. I can either ferment in my basement (18-19 deg C = 64-66 F) or living room (~23 deg C = 73 F). Both are in the temp range of the yeast but can the temp affect flavor; would any of the two temperatures be better?
3. Is the 90 minute boil really necessary? I understand it is since it's mostly pilsner malt and the extra boiling time will help drive off DMS etc?

Thanks for the recipe, and any answers are appreciated. Cheers!

 

[fun4stuff]

Plan to brew this some time this weekend. Got all the ingredients, but was wondering about a couple of things.

1. LHBS didn't have the WLP580 or equivalent, so I got wyeast 3787 - Trappist High Gravity, I guess that should work fine?
2. I can either ferment in my basement (18-19 deg C = 64-66 F) or living room (~23 deg C = 73 F). Both are in the temp range of the yeast but can the temp affect flavor; would any of the two temperatures be better?
3. Is the 90 minute boil really necessary? I understand it is since it's mostly pilsner malt and the extra boiling time will help drive off DMS etc?

Thanks for the recipe, and any answers are appreciated. Cheers!

1. Should be good
2. I'd go with the basement. Fermentation temperature can actually increase 5-10 degrees more than ambient temp for the first few days.
3. I don't think a 90 minute boil is necessary. I think that's one of the various homebrew myths. A lot of people (including brulosophy folks) don't do it and can't taste the difference or find a difference when analyzing samples with gas chromatography.

 

[brewuuhu]

Thanks for the answers!

Brewed it last night. Went well, hit all the numbers and it's already bubbling away madly this morning. Can't wait to try it!

 

[brewuuhu]

Was wondering if anyone used the yeast cake of this brew to make another (bigger) beer after, and if the S-04 has any noticeable impact on flavor.

I'm considering to brew a Belgian dark strong ale (~10%, à la Gulden Draak, Rochefort 10 or St. Bernardus 12) next, on top of the yeast cake of this one. I used wyeast 3787 (Trappist High Gravity) + S04 for this DT clone; any idea of that yeast cake would work fine, or is the S-04 undesirable there?

 

[rcamara]

I have just brewed this yesterday, I hag to substitute the wlp 570 with fermentis T-58, since we are stuck with fermentis here in Mexico.

My question is: (and sorry if this has been answered before)

Both Yeast have a recommended temperature above Lager range, i checked White labs page and its also supposed to ferment at a higher temp.
The lagering its just a rest period? wouldnt that kill the yeast?
This is my first time lagering I updated my equipment and now I can finally lager, a DT clone was on my mind when I began brewing a couple of years back, so any input would be welcome.

 

[Thonz]

Nope. The lagering will not kill the yeast. It's only there to let the yeast drop out of suspension and make it go dormant. That way you get clearer beer. It also cleans up the taste.

 

[Shenanigans]

I plan on brewing this beer soon.
Not my first Belgian but up until now I have just brewed a few Wits and Belgian IPAs primed with table sugar calculated at 2.5 volumes of CO2.
However this one should be 3.5 volumes. I'll be using strong Belgian bottles so I'm not worried about bombs but I don't want to have a batch of gushers.

Is the secret to store them for a long time before opening so that the pressure pushes/bonds the CO2 into the beer? Or I should be OK as long as I don't bottle until I'm 100% sure it is fully fermented?

 

[Kee]

I plan on brewing this beer soon.
Not my first Belgian but up until now I have just brewed a few Wits and Belgian IPAs primed with table sugar calculated at 2.5 volumes of CO2.
However this one should be 3.5 volumes. I'll be using strong Belgian bottles so I'm not worried about bombs but I don't want to have a batch of gushers.

Is the secret to store them for a long time before opening so that the pressure pushes/bonds the CO2 into the beer? Or I should be OK as long as I don't bottle until I'm 100% sure it is fully fermented?

Gushers are caused by either bottling too early (as you noted) or an infection. You will be fine at 3.5 volumes, especially in Belgian bottles. That is the minimum I like to carbonate, whether the style causes for it or not (that's just me).

That assumes you carefully weight the sugar and mix it evenly into the bottling bucket. When I am pushing the limit, I open a bottle (and drink it) periodically just to be sure, even if I plan on aging most of the batch. If it seems over-carbonated, put the rest in the frig.

 

[Shenanigans]

Gushers are caused by either bottling too early (as you noted) or an infection. You will be fine at 3.5 volumes, especially in Belgian bottles. That is the minimum I like to carbonate, whether the style causes for it or not (that's just me).

That assumes you carefully weight the sugar and mix it evenly into the bottling bucket. When I am pushing the limit, I open a bottle (and drink it) periodically just to be sure, even if I plan on aging most of the batch. If it seems over-carbonated, put the rest in the frig.

Thanks for your reply.
I guess I'll give it a go and see what happens.
Will brew it next month and probably report back around the end of the Summer.
The only limitation will be using a smack pack that is already over 1 year past it's use by date. However I guess If I give myself a week or two to get the starter going it should be fine. Will save some for bottling too

 

[Br3w4u]

Not sure if someone already asked this but would it be ok to fine with gelatine before transferring to the keg to 'condition' at room temp? Is the warm conditioning even necessary after the long cold conditioning phase?

 

[brewuuhu]

Not sure if someone already asked this but would it be ok to fine with gelatine before transferring to the keg to 'condition' at room temp? Is the warm conditioning even necessary after the long cold conditioning phase?

Sure, you can fine with gelatin, I did the same. There will still be yeast present in the beer, it'll continue to condition after. Not sure how 'necessary' the warm conditioning really is, but it won't hurt, especially not with a (slightly) heavy Belgian!

 

[Webru]

Has anyone brewed this without the lagering phase? How did it come out?

 

[Shenanigans]

Brewed this yesterday and hit my numbers perfectly. I did have one issue though. I have a new electric kettle with BIAB and false bottom. Thought it would be perfect for step mashing but boy was I wrong. I mashed in at 125 no problem but when I tried to heat up the the next step it kept turning off because it was only heating the wort under the false bottom. Took me about 30 min to realise this. Then I transferred it to my other kettle and continued the mash from there. So I was stuck at 125 for about an hour instead of 10 mins. I hope this won't effect the beer too much. We will see in a few months

 

[madscientist451]

Perhaps try adding boiling water to increase your step mash temperature
next time. Use the "rest calculator" on the Green Bay Rackers website.

 

[enricocoron]

In my opinion as long is terminal gravity of 2 Plato or below is reached the warm conditioning phase is not necessary. At this alcohol by volume normally you would see this temperatures above 72 yet below 80 degrees. A good trick to get attenuation is to add the cane sugar at high krausen about 48 to 72 hours into fermentation. As long as you have a healthy starter plenty of oxygen and get the temperature up into the seventies then add the sugar at this point you should have no problem with fusel alcohols or overly expressed esters diacetyl should be gone as well. The lagering phase is generally to clean up sulfur notes and get some extra clarity. I have had good success with belgians of this style simply bottling or kegging after two to three day diacetyl rest at Terminal gravity and then simply storing the bottles either at Cellar or refrigerator or walk in temperatures. If bottle-conditioned beer tends to get better with time although I've only kept bottles about a year. I think the reason the original poster mentioned the warm conditioning after a cold lager was because in Belgian fall and winters .often temperatures are too low for the yeast to bottle condition so they often will employ a warm room that is kept at 70 degrees or above so that they can be confident that their stock is properly carbonated before it goes to Market

 

[Webru]

Huh. I'll definitely have to try adding the sugar at high Krausen if I don't like how this one comes out. I brewed it a week ago and it's still bubbling away in the fermenter. My house is pretty cold so I wrapped the fermenter in a blanket. I think the temps topped out around 82, which I'm thinking may have been too high, but only time will tell. I also subbed t58 for the liquid yeast; I had good luck with the t58 strain on another Belgian I made. I can't wait to see the FG of the beer but I'm making myself be patient. Last time I only got it down to around 1.011, albeit in a different recipe with some caramel malt, lower temp fermentation, and just the one packet of t58.

 

[Br3w4u]

I just did one week of cold conditioning and added gelatine then kegged 24 hours later. The FG was 1.011 but it tastes fine. A little sweet. I taste a lot of banana but my wife says it tastes spicy and perfumey.

 

[Shenanigans]

Perhaps try adding boiling water to increase your step mash temperature
next time. Use the "rest calculator" on the Green Bay Rackers website.

Thanks I might look into that but the main issue is my equipment.
First time trying step mash with it and the false bottom plus the bag made it difficult for the kettle to heat far up the kettle even though I was stirring like a mad man .

Anyway if I understood correctly the 125 rest is the protein rest so doing it for more than a hour instead of 10 mins will probably have broken down a lot more proteins than required. Potentially resulting in negative effects on head retention. Hopefully this wont be the case

 

[Shenanigans]

Thanks I might look into that but the main issue is my equipment.
First time trying step mash with it and the false bottom plus the bag made it difficult for the kettle to heat far up the kettle even though I was stirring like a mad man .

Anyway if I understood correctly the 125 rest is the protein rest so doing it for more than a hour instead of 10 mins will probably have broken down a lot more proteins than required. Potentially resulting in negative effects on head retention. Hopefully this wont be the case

I just realised I forgot to add the S-04 :smack:
It's already in the fermenter 4 days now and ramped up to 79F so I'm not going to add the S-04 now. Won't turn out like the original post but Should be a good beer without it anyway so I'm not too worried.
At least I'll be able to harvest some pure 1388 from the top now

 

[Shenanigans]

I just realised I forgot to add the S-04 :smack:
It's already in the fermenter 4 days now and ramped up to 79F so I'm not going to add the S-04 now. Won't turn out like the original post but Should be a good beer without it anyway so I'm not too worried.
At least I'll be able to harvest some pure 1388 from the top now

After 8 days I'm down to 1.010 so hopefully another week and it's fully done. I must say the sample I took tasted really good for a warm flat beer.
Will report back in a few weeks.

 

[brewuuhu]

I just realised I forgot to add the S-04 :smack:
It's already in the fermenter 4 days now and ramped up to 79F so I'm not going to add the S-04 now. Won't turn out like the original post but Should be a good beer without it anyway so I'm not too worried.
At least I'll be able to harvest some pure 1388 from the top now

I also made it without the S-04, and it came out as a great beer. Not an Delirium Tremens clone, but not sure if adding the S-04 would've made it more DT-like. Good call on not adding it that late anymore, anyhow.

 

[seandalton]

Sorry if this has been posted, but has anyone repitched the yeast from both the S-04 and the 1388? I just brewed this and if it turns out well, I would like to make a 5 gallon batch. Thanks

 

[Shenanigans]

I also made it without the S-04, and it came out as a great beer. Not an Delirium Tremens clone, but not sure if adding the S-04 would've made it more DT-like. Good call on not adding it that late anymore, anyhow.

Thanks for the encouragement

@All

It finished at 1.006 and will be at about 36F for two weeks on the weekend.
So I'll be bottling on Saturday with an imperial porter I have bulk matured for 3 months.
I just need to decide what to do for adding yeast at bottling.
1. Add half a pack of S-04
2. Add half a pack of S-33
3. Take about half a cup of the sediment and add it to bottling bucket

I like the 3rd option because I love Duvel but it tastes much nicer to me if I add the yeast from the bottle so it would be nicer to have the original yeast in the sediment than S-04 or S-33.

Would adding some sediment (trub and yeast) defeat the whole purpose of lagering for two weeks?
Would the yeast in the trub be up to carbing the beer after the stress of the primary fermentation anyway?

I do also have the 4th option of making a small starter from the yeast I top cropped but I would rather not have the hassle.

ipe:

 

[Shenanigans]

Thanks for the encouragement

@All

It finished at 1.006 and will be at about 36F for two weeks on the weekend.
So I'll be bottling on Saturday with an imperial porter I have bulk matured for 3 months.
I just need to decide what to do for adding yeast at bottling.
1. Add half a pack of S-04
2. Add half a pack of S-33
3. Take about half a cup of the sediment and add it to bottling bucket

I like the 3rd option because I love Duvel but it tastes much nicer to me if I add the yeast from the bottle so it would be nicer to have the original yeast in the sediment than S-04 or S-33.

Would adding some sediment (trub and yeast) defeat the whole purpose of lagering for two weeks?
Would the yeast in the trub be up to carbing the beer after the stress of the primary fermentation anyway?

I do also have the 4th option of making a small starter from the yeast I top cropped but I would rather not have the hassle.

ipe:

Well I decided not to be lazy and I have a starter going since yesterday.
I thought since I already invested so much effort in it with the step mashing and lagering that I might as well go the whole hog and make some fresh liquid yeast.

Just one general question about the lagering; what are you guy doing to get it up to room temperature for bottling? Jut turning off the cooling and let is warm up naturally or helping it warm up quicker by upping the temperature to about 70 in your fermentation chamber?

I would guess letting it warm up naturally would take at least 24 hours so if I want to bottle on Saturday I would already have to turn off the cooling on Friday.

 

[Kee]

Well I decided not to be lazy and I have a starter going since yesterday.
I thought since I already invested so much effort in it with the step mashing and lagering that I might as well go the whole hog and make some fresh liquid yeast.

Just one general question about the lagering; what are you guy doing to get it up to room temperature for bottling? Jut turning off the cooling and let is warm up naturally or helping it warm up quicker by upping the temperature to about 70 in your fermentation chamber?

I would guess letting it warm up naturally would take at least 24 hours so if I want to bottle on Saturday I would already have to turn off the cooling on Friday.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I always bottle at whatever temperature the beer happens to be. What would be the advantage of warming the beer before bottling?

 

[Shenanigans]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I always bottle at whatever temperature the beer happens to be. What would be the advantage of warming the beer before bottling?

Well I was thinking two fold; this will be my first time bottling after cold conditioning so maybe I'm wrong.

Firstly the health of the fresh yeast I'm preparing for bottling.
I'm making the starter at about 68F and cold conditioning the beer at about 34F so if I add the fresh yeast to the cold beer then they will probably get a big shock. This could kill a lot of them or else they will drop out during bottling and I will end up with a lot of yeast at the bottom of the bucket. I know during transferring and the time the beer spends outside the fridge when preparing the temperature will rise but will probably still be around 40/45 when bottling.

Secondly I have the feeling that handling 50 or 60 bottles of cold beer would be a real PITA. I assume they will be covered in condensation if adding cold beer to room temperature bottles and my hands will be half frozen. So I will for sure let a few of them drop

The best method would probably to transfer it into the bottling bucket when cold and then let it warm up there before adding the yeast but that has possible sanitation/oxidation issues.

It's probably like a lot of things with this hobby each method has it's advantages and disadvantages.

Anyway I turned off the fridge already and plan on bottling in about 24 hours. So should be good to go

 

[Kee]

Well I was thinking two fold; this will be my first time bottling after cold conditioning so maybe I'm wrong.

Firstly the health of the fresh yeast I'm preparing for bottling.
I'm making the starter at about 68F and cold conditioning the beer at about 34F so if I add the fresh yeast to the cold beer then they will probably get a big shock. This could kill a lot of them or else they will drop out during bottling and I will end up with a lot of yeast at the bottom of the bucket. I know during transferring and the time the beer spends outside the fridge when preparing the temperature will rise but will probably still be around 40/45 when bottling.

Secondly I have the feeling that handling 50 or 60 bottles of cold beer would be a real PITA. I assume they will be covered in condensation if adding cold beer to room temperature bottles and my hands will be half frozen. So I will for sure let a few of them drop

The best method would probably to transfer it into the bottling bucket when cold and then let it warm up there before adding the yeast but that has possible sanitation/oxidation issues.

It's probably like a lot of things with this hobby each method has it's advantages and disadvantages.

Anyway I turned off the fridge already and plan on bottling in about 24 hours. So should be good to go

True, it will make the yeast happy.