PicoPaks - REUSABLE?

Yakima 728
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chiefwigms said:
So nobody can vacuum form the containers :(?!
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As it stands right now doesn't matter if you make a container or not, you still have to get by the RFID tags. That makes it very limited to what you can do with any container. I have several that I have made out of re-purposed materials and have one about half way made of stainless. This doesn't help if you don't have the controls to tell the machine what to do with your shiny container. There are a few tricks that people are using out there and I have made some batches work but it is still limited.
 
nickvasallo said:
#PicoPak users: has anyone every tried reusing them? I just brewed my first PicoPak (in a #PicoC), cleaned it and it is in nice shape. I'm considering putting mash in a BIAB, and hop pellets in a sachet in the hoppack. I'm also wondering if this machine would work if we could make a container with the same vent holes and filters?
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I just bought a pico s from sams club, they had them on clearance for 150 dollars, I dont think there good to reuse the pico pak, maybe you use a different food grade container with holes in it. my pico pak code sticker was good for 3 days then it got kicked off the pico and said its not in data base
 
Woot has the model C system for $189.99 today. I've never used the Pico, so I have zero experience. It almost seems like the solution could be to hijack whatever does the verification part and point it to your own database where you could add your own recipes and such. That said, it probably violates digital copyrights, EULA, and so on. Sucks though, it'd be nice to be able to do your own mini pilot batches.
 
It's too bad the PicoU Kickstarter was cancelled. That had a BYOI (brew with your own ingredients) option in the rewards.
 
D9802440-D945-4220-9EF8-E5DD94D80E5B.png
I saw a comment that PicoBrew replied to on their own Twitter page about when the BYO ingredient pack would be available. They said they are in QC testing and plan on releasing soon. Hopefully, the sooner the better.
 
Santo said:
following this thread... got a pico pro and would like more flexibility.
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Picobrew doesn't have a very good reputation when it comes to listening to customer needs, especially when it comes to making things more flexible or living up to promises. They have inbev/zx-venture bucks to payback. Reusing picopacks doesn't help that. They will however take your money for a Z1 which will be available in July!
 
I just got a Pico C and have been playing around with it for the last few days. You can definitely reuse the pico paks a couple of times. I brewed a pak last night and reused it immediately. The RFID wouldn't register, so I went to my account and input the serial number and sure enough, I was able to brew one if my own batches with the same pak.
Today, I did the same and had the same problem. My husband played with the RFID placement and got the tag to register a second time without having to go to my account to register the RFID. I plan on brewing a 3rd batch from the same pak, fingers crossed that the system doesn't kick it out.
It's an interesting system and a good idea for inexperienced or lazy brewers (or brewers, like me, that find it hard to spend a whole day brewing because of the little ones), but definitely isn't ideal. There are a lot if design flaws and the fact that I have to buy a Picopak really ticks me off. I would pay good money to be able to brew my own small scale pilot batches with my own settings in a hands off system like this.
 
I mean, the exact same company makes systems that do that. They're just $2000 instead of $300 dollars.
 
Hi!

Anyone heard anything about BYO-ingredients kit? Last update is 2018-08-21, as of above.
I would love to make my own beers in small batches.
 
macgyuver said:
As it stands right now doesn't matter if you make a container or not, you still have to get by the RFID tags. That makes it very limited to what you can do with any container. I have several that I have made out of re-purposed materials and have one about half way made of stainless. This doesn't help if you don't have the controls to tell the machine what to do with your shiny container. There are a few tricks that people are using out there and I have made some batches work but it is still limited.
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Not anymore...
 
tmendick said:
It's too bad the PicoU Kickstarter was cancelled. That had a BYOI (brew with your own ingredients) option in the rewards.
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This may have been due to my own and other comments. I suggested they license access to use it. So, you for X amount of fiat currency in whatever geography, you get to brew X amount of your own recipes as many times as you wish - but only those. If you wish to change the brew, then you must remove one or pay additional to the annual fee.

In the mean
IslandLizard said:
What a rip off! Someone must have hacked this by now.
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They have. A single brew session is pretty easy to understand as is the economical
nickvasallo said:
Dude keep me posted! How do you make HDPE version?
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HPDE is a tough proposition with temps at 240F and above, for which you will encounter. The themoblock in the unit alone is at a temp well over this.
 
Lbarouf said:
How did this come along? I love reverse engineering.
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So this whole thing from @macgyuver is in regards to a call that is made by the Arduino unit onboard through an HTTP call. It is a parameter known as SesId which allows one to resume a failed session. The actually occur, perhaps if one has a primer issue in the pump or something. As for timing on reuse, I'm not going into pirating their product and that of the breweries that put hard earned work into them.
 
tateconcepts said:
So this whole thing from @macgyuver is in regards to a call that is made by the Arduino unit onboard through an HTTP call. It is a parameter known as SesId which allows one to resume a failed session. The actually occur, perhaps if one has a primer issue in the pump or something. As for timing on reuse, I'm not going into pirating their product and that of the breweries that put hard earned work into them.
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Did they ever do SSL on the little picos? I know the zymatic was http only so api backend spoofing worked. I ran one for a while before selling mine. If it is just http then chance are its the same api as the zymatic which means its game on for anyone with 5 minutes to extend the handful of brewhouse apis on github.
 
Brewfreedom said:
Did they ever do SSL on the little picos? I know the zymatic was http only so api backend spoofing worked. I ran one for a while before selling mine. If it is just http then chance are its the same api as the zymatic which means its game on for anyone with 5 minutes to extend the handful of brewhouse apis on github.
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The API is the same for all the models. This whole reuse/rebrew matter is simply due to the session parameter being issued after one is requested when you start to brew. It's likely a bug if its permitting them after the session is complete as that's what the code=(integer) is at the end. As far as what I see from the unit, it's obvious how it works - because all these devices use radio, they are required to be registered with the FCC. It's clearly NFC but all that does is read your tag, check what receipe its for and brews it. It does not appear to have any data associated with authorization.

From what I see, one could essentially just run the responses with a Raspberry Pi running CherryPy with Ngnix or something. You would also of course need to have a decent network where you can run your own DNS internally to send pico brew.com to something like 192.168.0.0/24 or whatever your network range and or octet assigned to the host that will essentially respond with the same requests the PicoBrew is expecting to continue it's brew.
 
tateconcepts said:
The API is the same for all the models. This whole reuse/rebrew matter is simply due to the session parameter being issued after one is requested when you start to brew. It's likely a bug if its permitting them after the session is complete as that's what the code=(integer) is at the end. As far as what I see from the unit, it's obvious how it works - because all these devices use radio, they are required to be registered with the FCC. It's clearly NFC but all that does is read your tag, check what receipe its for and brews it. It does not appear to have any data associated with authorization.

From what I see, one could essentially just run the responses with a Raspberry Pi running CherryPy with Ngnix or something. You would also of course need to have a decent network where you can run your own DNS internally to send pico brew.com to something like 192.168.0.0/24 or whatever your network range and or octet assigned to the host that will essentially respond with the same requests the PicoBrew is expecting to continue it's brew.
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Only issue you will run into is if the web server (properly) rejects non ascii headers. The zymatic throws some extra crap over the wire in the request. IIS doesnt care but I had to fork Kestrel to work around it. Havent tried it with nginix.
 
Would you share your fork of the project?

I'm thinking a firmware flash would permit a more permanent solution. At this point, it seems Pico users mainly pay them for access to their recipe database and the privilege of taking an NFC token for the unit to obtain a session ID to brew it with.
 
tateconcepts said:
Would you share your fork of the project?

I'm thinking a firmware flash would permit a more permanent solution. At this point, it seems Pico users mainly pay them for access to their recipe database and the privilege of taking an NFC token for the unit to obtain a session ID to brew it with.
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Have at it. I sold my Zymatic so I don't have anyway to test or continue work. Got the urge to go full retard and went 20 gallon e-herms. https://github.com/brewfreedom/ZymaticBridge/wiki/Picobrew-ZymaticBridge
 
Hoppy2bmerry said:
View attachment 562800
I agree it is a bit expensive, I'm thankful for their sales and free shipping on two. The last one I did I opened the the grain pack in an effort to save it and found a corner that didn't even get wet, so I got out my kettle and bag and mashed them. Made a second batch with different hops and yeast. The difference in Gravity was one point less.
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Do you mind sharing the ingredients you used on your second run? I have some Picopaks that expired and thought about reusing them with my own ingredients, just not sure where to start. Thanks.
 
I think this was the bouderian blond, for clarification I never have refilled the pack. By the time they dry out they are pretty warped. So I just take a batch or two of the spent grains (they always have some good stuff left), if I brew close enough and BIAB.
 
Hoppy2bmerry said:
I think this was the bouderian blond, for clarification I never have refilled the pack. By the time they dry out they are pretty warped. So I just take a batch or two of the spent grains (they always have some good stuff left), if I brew close enough and BIAB.
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Actually, my packs would be unused, I just need to throw away the old stuff and put new ingredients. Anybody has a good recipe on way to do it?
 
One way to come close is to weigh what you have as you disassemble and then work in percentages to build a recipe. Since the efficiency is lower you need more grains than most published recipes, the hop additions are not heavy either. Sorry I can’t be more helpful.
 
Hoppy2bmerry said:
One way to come close is to weigh what you have as you disassemble and then work in percentages to build a recipe. Since the efficiency is lower you need more grains than most published recipes, the hop additions are not heavy either. Sorry I can’t be more helpful.
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Thank you for the reply, I guess my question was more basic, what kind of grains and hops would you buy? What is a good place to get them?
 
A base malt of golden promise a a little caramel 30 L with centennial hops could emulate Bells two hearted and you wouldn’t need to worry about which compartment for the hops to fill. (I think it moves left to right, but I wouldn’t bet money on it) when you do this experiment let us know how it turns out.
 
This has been a long time coming. Not quite what I thought the BYO would end up being but it works. I have my Z2 now so the Pro is almost not used at all. Once the Z picopak adapter comes out I probably wont use the Pro at all. Then again the stock of paks I have may be gone by then. LOL.
 
Did anyone actually finish designing a reusable container? I just got the new Unpak'd version that uses a grain bag but the problem is the water level never fully covers the grain bill so you never get full conversion of ALL the grain. I would be interested to see if someone has developed a reusable one that is similar to the packs that forces the grain to be fully submerged.
 
I have posted this on the facebook group some time back. It is a stainless box modeled after the picopak. I have used it on paks that have been questionable on if they will bust. It has worked well. I have also used it to BYOI through some other methods. I dont have a picture of it and it has not been on my priority list to find since I moved 6 months ago and have my Z2 now. Anyway if you are interested here is a link to the cad file for the box. You will need software to open it in or an online viewer.

Stainless Box
 
Utah diesel does stuff like this. I think they actually make a filter box for the other Pico already. I'll see what they say. I imagine they could do something like what @macgyuver drew up but with a full mesh bottom, or just a mesh box
 
That would be awesome thank you for helping out. I am struggling to find a sous vide container that I could drill some holes in that would work better. The size inside the step filter is just too small for a normal sous vide container.
 

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