PicoBrew Zymatic

[Mike Howard]

I haven't even seen one person post that got the new Z....my guess is the regular supporters are still a ways out. Besides, I think Picobrew is having a heck of a time with fulfilling requests for any of their products. Case in point: Picostill Delivery

Since I got my new Brew-Boss I am less anxious about delivery dates and feedback. Except, I am curious about the MTBF on the new Z series and if anyone will post about a part gone bad that Picobrew let them replace (pet peeve). I foresee that the new wort distribution system could be problematic, but only time will tell. Also, given my experience, I am curious about the upgraded HEX system.

I have about 150 brews (last count) on my Zymatic and so far I have had to rebuild the stepper arm, top off the glycol (3 times), replace the RIMS heating element, repair the grain bin screens and fix a drain pump diaphragm clog...all without the help of picobrew I might add (snarky remark).

I am wondering why Picobrew hasn't made a lot of fanfare about the release of the new Z and any feedback they have received? They made a big deal about that first delivery and now nothing? Is it not going as planned? Are folks not excited? Did the new software upgrades pan out like they wanted? IDK, just enquiring.

 

[Thorrak]

Supposedly my Z is going to arrive next week. I’m excited! I’ll be posting loads of photos once it arrives.

I do recall someone saying they had a scheduled delivery date in Dec though - I’m curious as to what happened with that.

 

[Trevor Mack]

Someone had expected delivery of 12/10 and posted a few days later that he hadn't received any updates from Picobrew. I then asked support if there was any delays (my deliver is scheduled for 4/1/19) and they said suppliers were behind on fulfilling orders and machines were still being assembled by hand at HQ. I'm betting no box will arrive tomorrow unfortunately.

 

[Thorrak]

Looks like the inside of a washing machine.. maybe some of the same parts as well?

As long as my Z doesn’t try to do a spin cycle, I’d be fine with it! The more off-the-shelf parts the better.

 

[Mike Howard]

Except the new Z series looks like it has LESS off the shelf parts. At least with the Zymatic I have outsourced every part except the main board...and I'm working on that. You are still going to have issues with the Step Filter, it being plastic and all, the HEX loop and I'm not liking the Wort Delivery System.

Hopefully all of my concerns are not really anything to worry about, but again, time will tell. It will be nice to see folks getting their Z's and reporting in on performance and longevity.

 

[t1mmer]

I have about 150 brews (last count) on my Zymatic and so far I have had to rebuild the stepper arm, top off the glycol (3 times), replace the RIMS heating element, repair the grain bin screens and fix a drain pump diaphragm clog...all without the help of picobrew I might add (snarky remark).

I've only opened my Zymatic once to get a photo of the boards for PicoBrew and it has 50+ brews, many of which were 4 gallons. Now I'm wondering if the glycol needs to be topped off. Were there any symptoms that made you check that and how do you do it? There is often an error unless I preheat the water to 90–100°F or so.

 

[Mike Howard]

...Were there any symptoms that made you check that and how do you do it?...

It should be loud when you first turn it on...it will have a fair amount of gurgling as the pump cavitates.
Fatal Error #1, #3 or #17. Fatal Error #1, if all other checks pass, see the troubleshooting info here.
You should never have to pre-heat the water
Try to run this recipe here, your wort temp and your heat temp should be no more than 10 degrees apart and transistions should be smooth.

Just to make sure everything is OK, I would do a deep clean like I point out in the above troubleshooting info.

If you still have the fatal error PM me and I'll help you top off your glycol.

 

[Mike Howard]

By the way....anyone else see that Picobrew updated the Recipe Crafter lately? I hardly ever use it and just noticed yesterday that it now has BJCP 2015 and an updated list of grains....it could have happened anytime in the last year though...

 

[Trevor Mack]

By the way....anyone else see that Picobrew updated the Recipe Crafter lately? I hardly ever use it and just noticed yesterday that it now has BJCP 2015 and an updated list of grains....it could have happened anytime in the last year though...

This is what I got from support when asking about the availability of the new recipe crafter. I'm guessing the crafting experience between Z and Zymatic are going to converge eventually (but maybe not).

We currently have the base of it on our live website but hidden behind a non-listed URL. We're aiming to have it available for all very soon once we've squashed a few final bugs that are showing themselves now that it's on the live site.

 

[Mike Howard]

I'm guessing they are doing incremental changes...

 

[viperfoth]

@Mike Howard

If I were to replace my Zymatic Pump with this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DLKT4OO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Would I need to replace both since it pumps at a higher rate?

 

[Mike Howard]

Which pump are you trying to replace? Drain pump...then you are ok. Wort pump....might not be ok. I would do what you suggest by replacing both pumps at the same time with identical units. Making sure that if one is a bit faster, you place it in the drain loop. About the only side effect you might see is that you produce a few more bubbles in the drain line.

The Zym is designed to overflow across the back wall, but you wouldn't want the pump to empty the wort in your keg or flow so fast that the drain pump couldn't keep up. Better to have a slower wort pump IMO.

I have this pump here that I used for testing in my unit, but I took it back out because I cleard the obstruction in my original pump. Figured there was no sense in replacing a perfectly good pump.

Just curious, but any reason why you are replacing yours?

 

[viperfoth]

Which pump are you trying to replace? Drain pump...then you are ok. Wort pump....might not be ok. I would do what you suggest by replacing both pumps at the same time with identical units. Making sure that if one is a bit faster, you place it in the drain loop. About the only side effect you might see is that you produce a few more bubbles in the drain line.

The Zym is designed to overflow across the back wall, but you wouldn't want the pump to empty the wort in your keg or flow so fast that the drain pump couldn't keep up. Better to have a slower wort pump IMO.

I have this pump here that I used for testing in my unit, but I took it back out because I cleard the obstruction in my original pump. Figured there was no sense in replacing a perfectly good pump.

Just curious, but any reason why you are replacing yours?

Good to know. I was thinking along the same lines that the machine better pull out faster than it is going in otherwise issues will arise...and overflow...

Overall I am happy with the machine but during the boil phase it is just not getting enough flow into the hop compartments for a good coverage. On a thicker mash especially. You can see the flow going on/off into the hop compartments and the thicker the mash the harder it seems to work at it. My thought was going from 0.7 to 1.2 may help solve this issue.

 

[Mike Howard]

I had exactly that same problem with not pumping thicker wort. I brewed a Belgian Tripel that was 1.090 with added Candi Sugar and the pump could not handle that. I found two issues. First, a husk of Rice Hull was caught in my drain pump diaphragm (caused wort to back up into the grain bed). Second, my Step Filter Tube was clogged and drastically reduced the flow. Fixed both and now I can brew without issue.

Sounds like you need to do a deep clean and take apart the Step Tube for a good cleaning. Hit me up on PM and I'll tell you how I do a deep clean.

 

[viperfoth]

Good to know. I was thinking along the same lines that the machine better pull out faster than it is going in otherwise issues will arise...and overflow...

Overall I am happy with the machine but during the boil phase it is just not getting enough flow into the hop compartments for a good coverage. On a thicker mash especially. You can see the flow going on/off into the hop compartments and the thicker the mash the harder it seems to work at it. My thought was going from 0.7 to 1.2 may help solve this issue.

Well you would think it was a cleaning issue. My Z was sent back about 8 months ago because of the dreaded Error #1. Luckily it was under warranty. I have only done 2 batches since receiving it. The pumps go better than my old one but do not seem to be fast enough to my liking. Maybe I am just used to the hops are completely submerged usage but I can taste a different hop character when using the Z over my BIAB (which is what I was using for months). I still prefer the automated brew cycle, just hoping to eak out a little extra hoppiness, especially in the later hop additions that want less time.

 

[Brewfreedom]

I think the error #1 is a function of just how the Zymatic works and every user is going to get them no matter what if you keep it/brew long enough. What did they fix when you sent your's back? Or did they just bleed a bubble out of the loop/top it off?

 

[viperfoth]

They sent me back a different machine and I was not real happy about it as mine was spotless and this new one had some scrapes on it, the step filter pipe out the back is off-center, and there are a couple of rust spots. I am just super picky, most people probably would not have noticed.... But based on that it is impossible to tell what was completed.

 

[Mike Howard]

For FE#1...almost certain they had to tear the unit down and either replace the HEX or Fill the Glycol.

Hops usage on the Zymatic will be less efficient than if you dropped them into the boil on a different system. I learned that shortly after getting my Zymatic. You'll have to up your recipe amount to get the same aroma/alpha acid characteristics. It also helps to spread them out over the 3 adjunct compartments rather than sticking them all in one.

As for the FE#1 or any other error for that matter....since I have been performing the deep clean process I came up with and topping off the glycol whenever I hear cavitation, I have not had a single error with the unit during brewing. I have had to replace a few parts, but its almost 3 years old now and nearing 150 brews, as of the last time I counted. It definitely requires some preventative maintenance and diligent cleaning, but I'm finally happy with its performance...no thanks to PB.

If anyone needs help with the Fatal Errors, hit me up on PM.

 

[viperfoth]

They sent me back a different machine and I was not real happy about it as mine was spotless and this new one had some scrapes on it, the step filter pipe out the back is off-center, and there are a couple of rust spots. I am just super picky, most people probably would not have noticed.... But based on that it is impossible to tell what was completed.

Well come to find out it was a keg post that was not getting great flow. Switched to another setup and my flow seems quite a bit better. Teach me to change things up

SS Brewtech bucket does not give me this issue but it was busy with other tasks so I decided to use the keg.

 

[Mike Howard]

One of the reasons I removed both the keg post springs/valves and the Zymatic Connector springs/valves.

 

[Mike Howard]

More updates to the Recipe Crafter for the Zymatic I see....

 

[Mike Howard]

So sad that a lot of folks over on the Picobrew forum are still clueless about this thread. So much information here to help them get their Zymatics back up and running and not have to rely on the sub-par support they are getting. Pico support has been giving everyone the run-around on a thread over there, telling those guys to do repeated HEX soaks and cleans when in reality they need to top off their glycol loop...lame to say the least:

 

[Brewfreedom]

So sad that a lot of folks over on the Picobrew forum are still clueless about this thread. So much information here to help them get their Zymatics back up and running and not have to rely on the sub-par support they are getting. Pico support has been giving everyone the run-around on a thread over there, telling those guys to do repeated HEX soaks and cleans when in reality they need to top off their glycol loop...lame to say the least:

View attachment 614120

Still waiting on a review from someone brewing w the Z1. I'm sure they exist outside of the guy who is clearly a picoemployee (Dug) pretending to be one of us. I just can't justify the price for the bigger Z monstrosities. With the brewie+ not being a giant pile of **** picobrew has killed themselves with the Z2-4 jokes. I built a full retard spike+ 20 gallon eherms (kettles spike's everything else self sourced) for about the retail non pre-order cost of a Z2. And its a breeze to clean and I only touch it when I need switch from mash to sparge and boil.

 

[Thorrak]

Still waiting on a review from someone brewing w the Z1.

I’ve seen at least two people post on the Z thread about brewing with the Z1. I would prefer more, obviously, but they are out there.

 

[Brewfreedom]

I’ve seen at least two people post on the Z thread about brewing with the Z1. I would prefer more, obviously, but they are out there.

Only review i've seen is the guy who is an employee oogling over auto update/phone home on the post like a Microsoft exec getting a hardon seeing win10 telemetry. Post a link to a real joe brewer start to finish review of a brew day.

Edit - I found 1 review from a non pico employee here.

 

[Mike Howard]

I just love how folks say PB support is the best, yet, anytime someone asks about FE#1, PB support responds with 99% of the time its a cleaning issue and they have them soak, clean, soak, clean, etc...etc...etc...ha ha ha, that's just killing time. ID10T awards for them all.

Fact is, 99% of the time its not a cleaning issue. A cleaning issue will show in the boil first as erratic behavior, long before FE#1 pops up. Yes it's true that FE#1 CAN be a cleaning issue along with a lot of other stuff....so a clean will never help. They just do what's most convenient for the support team and thats send you on a wild goose chase.

Every time I've had a FE#1, its been the HEX Glycol loop...and as the Zymatic is prone to do...guess what happened during brew day. Yep. FE#1. Opened it up and just as I thought....low on glycol again. Top it off and back in business...BOOM!

 

[bunnyrat]

Mike - thanks for all of the great info on this thread! Could you post some guidance on refilling the glycol and where you source it? Does the glycol appear to leak from somewhere, or does it burn off or something?

 

[Gut Pile]

I used to get glycol from tractor supply for my chiller. They still carry it from time to time. This should be more than enough from amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Propylene-Glycol-Food-Grade-Quart/dp/B005PZBRUC . Just stick w the food grade stuff. Been a while since i had to top off a zymatic but i recall it was just a matter of uncrimping an end, bleeding it and w a funnel pouring in. I always spilled a bit in the process being a slob. Error #s be gone though. But mike a sceeen shot of the hose to top from would be awesome. Really crappy of pico for not treating customers like adults and providing a proper service manual for these things.

 

[Mike Howard]

I have a complete step by step procedure, with photos, that I have been working on with the help of about 10 or so others on here who have followed the procedure and added modifications/clarifications for each revision. I'd be happy to provide that info to anyone who needs to top off their glycol. Just shoot me a PM and I can get it to you.

For the glycol, I use this one from AMAZON, but I have three draft chillers so I need large quantities. As GP said, USP, Food Grade is what you need.

 

[brew-in]

Hi

Anyone using a Blichman Cornical to brew with their Zymatic?

Seems like a neat product to use with the Zyymatic of Z

 

[Denny]

Hi

Anyone using a Blichman Cornical to brew with their Zymatic?

Seems like a neat product to use with the Zyymatic of Z

I use a Grainfather conical

 

[brew-in]

Hi Denny,

Thanks for the reply. I too am considering the Grainfather conical.

What intrigues me about the Blichman Cornical is the keg connections and tubing. It would allow me to directly hook the Z (or Zymatic) to the Corny posts and brew directly in the Cornical. If I chose to brew with the conical section on, I would lengthen the one tube a bit to reach closed to the bottom of the cornical.

Not to sure I would flip it over, swap bottoms, and use it as a keg. More just use it as a Brew vessel, !st, and 2nd Fermentation vessel.

Plus the way it breaks down, it looks like it would be easy to clean.

Also can be pressurized for transfer, filtering, carbonating or pressure fermentation.

Thru the end of the month Blichman has them at $399.

Thoughts?

P.S. If I were PicoBrew, I would consider partnering with Blichman to offer the Cornical as an option to the keg.

 

[Gut Pile]

Hi Denny,
P.S. If I were PicoBrew, I would consider partnering with Blichman to offer the Cornical as an option to the keg.

I recall a post a few years back about someone posting about using larger kegs on the forum and getting a ban warning from the almighty support goons because using an unofficial keg will cause the zymatic to turn into an ied. For pico to do something like this requires vision and partnership in the community outside Ron Zimmerman and inbev. Not happening. This is why they are a dead end/joke. Had they stayed true to their original kickstarter of course this would already be a thing.

 

[Mike Howard]

I know of at least one guy using a ss-brewtech brew-bucket as a reservoir, rather than using the 5 gal keg. I've often thought about doing this myself to simplify double batches.

 

[Mike Howard]

Just a refresher....don't let Picobrew send you on a wild goose chase performing unlimited cleans. At most you should only need to perform a DEEP CLEAN and a REGULAR CLEAN. Anything more than that and you are gettting the run-around. Hit me up on PM and let's get your Zymatic running again.

 

[ShaLaH]

As a zymatic owner for about 3 years now, lately I'm getting Fatal Error #1 all the time, several times per brew. I'm also encountering major overflowing during the mash every brew. I deep clean after every brew, rinse before and after, clean keg posts, poppets, check all seals, etc. For an automated system, I have to keep an eye on it a lot more than I want to. I'm wondering if anyone on here has ditched the zymatic for a grainfather or something similar? I just feel like there are too many small internal errors that can't be easily fixed whereas other systems are much more modular and can be fixed pretty easily. I hate how a single grain husk lodged in a keg post can stop your brew day among other things. Any experiences with other systems would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Mike Howard]

I got your PM. Let's work to get your Zymatic back running like it should...you won't get any help from Picobrew so you came to the right place.

 

[Sorrow]

As a zymatic owner for about 3 years now, lately I'm getting Fatal Error #1 all the time, several times per brew. I'm also encountering major overflowing during the mash every brew. I deep clean after every brew, rinse before and after, clean keg posts, poppets, check all seals, etc. For an automated system, I have to keep an eye on it a lot more than I want to. I'm wondering if anyone on here has ditched the zymatic for a grainfather or something similar? I just feel like there are too many small internal errors that can't be easily fixed whereas other systems are much more modular and can be fixed pretty easily. I hate how a single grain husk lodged in a keg post can stop your brew day among other things. Any experiences with other systems would be greatly appreciated.

I stopped using mine and switched to the Brewer's Edge Mash and Boil. My brew days are about half the time I spent on the zymatic and alot less watching it. I'm at the point where I'm ready to sell mine cheap to someone who would use it and enjoy it more.

 

[ShaLaH]

I know that everyone including PicoBrew recommends to put a spoon or keg lid rings between the large filter mesh and the plastic step filter lid. This is what I did (using the same fix implemented for the Braumeister malt tube top screen: Used McMaster-Carr high-temperature food grade silicone U-channel gasket over and around the edges of the filter mesh. The U-channel gasket seals the screen so no grains can escape. I did not do the small bottom screen because the weight of the grain keeps it in place. Feedback is appreciated.

View attachment 586046

This was discussed a while back and am now just getting around to putting these silicone U-channel strips over my mash screen. https://www.mcmaster.com/4869a76

In the item description, I don't see anything regarding it being Food Grade. Where did you find that info?

 

[Mike Howard]

It's RoHS Compliant and nearly all silicone is considered "food safe" as its considered inert. But I don't remember when I purchased mine if McMaster Carr actually lists it as that.