PicoBrew Zymatic

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It's their sandbox. His posts were pretty innocent though. Not something I'd blow up over. Even if he called Kevin a doody head in email. You should see the things I've had customers send/say. I always diffuse it, move on and in the end respond with a smile. Even when Im being abused by an idiot posting 1 star reviews. In the case of someone who has spent thousands of dollars on your barely supported product + wants to continue to send you thousands of dollars in an interest free loan you should probably put on your big boy pants and take it with a smile.
I suspect that, as with others who were banned that blabber on here, there was much said offline with customer service. Based on what I have read here, it all starts to make sense.

Apparently, mis-information, spreading falsehoods, and lashing out is becoming the new norm of entertainment and communication.
 
I suspect that, as with others who were banned that blabber on here, there was much said offline with customer service.

Which is exactly why I saved every email between Picobrew CS and myself...so fan boys couldn't claim Picobrew was justified....would be more than happy to share them on here. But most likely someone with a high BI would report it as threatening again.
 
Apparently, mis-information, spreading falsehoods

Like "We will release the source for the firmware". And my favorite "Expect to ship in July". The revelation that the zx entaglement was a loan and not a pure equity investment is significant. Zx usually has no problems outright buying much bigger companies to suit its bizzare quest for influence over home brewing. Wonder if they saw some cracks in the foundation? Either way count me out of any further investment if they are willing to get inbev fleas. They’d have to give the z away.
 
Funny but I am looking forward to my new Z even tho, outside of self updating firmware and a step filter without holes, the current one works perfectly for me. (Edit, but I really dont like the WiFi requirement) With the Z I doubt my final product will be any better. I guess it is similar to replacing a computer every few years, the old one still works fine but the new one is an evolution with functional improvements throughout. Ymmv
 
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No way, self updating firmware would be, and is, a horrible idea, btw. And as an engineer, having a requirement to always be connected to the internet in order to operate, is a poorly thought out vision and shows lack of understanding of the homebrewer.

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An appliance does not need to phone home, nor should it be required to. It is not sold as SAAS and there is no subscription, therefore, it should operate just like my microwave. Plug it in, turn it on, press go, viola.

Now if they want to "sell" additional services that require a connection, then that should be an option. But it should be a "value-added" option and not really required to operate at full efficiencies.
 
No way, self updating firmware would be, and is, a horrible idea, btw. And as an engineer, having a requirement to always be connected to the internet in order to operate, is a poorly thought out vision and shows lack of understanding of the homebrewer.

Yes as a software developer I am pretty concerned about my machine 100% depending on a remote back end that isn't paid for via a subscription or whatnot. Because I know when something isn't paid for, one day it gets sunsetted. The machine can easily run a local web server to give you status and ability to upload recipes on a home network. In fact a recipe crafter can be there too. This is how 3d printers work that use very similar hardware to the Zymatic/Z. The remote capability to me is fine as long as it just adds some functionality like sharing recipes but isn't required.

I just hope that if Picobrew ever goes under that they open source the client/server code so we can run it and maintain it.
 
Just another brewer working through issues with a Zymatic. On my 35th brew yesterday, I had my first overflow during the mash cycle. Unfortunately, I didn't check on things until about the 90 minute point, so I had about 1/2 gallon of sweet sticky wort on the floor. Managed to avoid any carpets... when I arrive the "overflow" was a very steady drip.

Question: thoughts on the most likely reason for the overflow?

(This was actually my 6th brew on a refurbished unit that I received after a lengthy troubleshooting FATAL ERROR#1 with the PicoBrew folks.)

I clean keg posts after every brew. I saw no signs of wort leaking through the plugs in the step filter. I use small sections of silicone tubing between the filter lid and the top screen to keep it from floating.

I did drain and remove the step filter to see what I could see before resuming the mash, and I added some keg lube on to the pump inlet tube that connects with the step filter.

During a 25 minute mash out, I had to drain 3 times to keep level below the screen. And it sure seemed like after the 3rd drain, the flow in and flow out were balanced. It also appeared to me like there was more air than usual in the return line (as seen through the clear plastic of the sample port).

Appreciate any thoughts from experienced Zymatic brewers. Let me know if any additional information would be helpful.
 
Yuk. No guarantees here just some thoughts on limiting the variables.
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-You can check the filter plugs by putting the step filter in the sink and filling it up until they are covered. Leaks will be apparent.
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-run water mash to eliminate the possibility of a plugged mash and leaking drain valve.
.
- run a recirc with a bucket of water and not the keg. Remove the grey and black ball locks so you have open hoses. This removes the variables of the kegposts, and ball locks. You should have a steady stream in and out.
.
-in this mode you can do things like checking lines for leaks to see if it is making a difference. For example I removed my test port as I never used it anyway.
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GL!!
 
Morale of the story... If you don't have a super large kitchen and an easily convincing partner put your brew equipment in the garage (away from the cars)... Then go buy a WiFi extender or new mesh router from Amazon... Maybe a heated blanket and several other things to keep the equipment warm in the garage over winter.

Enjoy your new brew location.
 
@sbbeebe

Here is a link to a post I have a few pages back, might want to review for future issues. If you don't use your Zymatic supplied keg for fermenting, I would highly suggest removing the poppets/springs from the keg posts and the Zymatic connections. There is no need to have those objects in the path of the wort.

Now, the Zymatic is designed to overflow off the back edge of your step filter, where the rubber plugs are, and into the adjunct compartment. Having wort go over the back edge is a normal situation and this, in and of itself, shouldn't cause a leak. However, due to the rubber plugs, this is a notorious leaking point and is just bad design. Use plenty of keg lube on these rubber plugs (more than you think you need), make sure the Zymatic is level and make sure the Duck valve is fully seated into the step filter (I've seen it back itself out and get stuck on the drain pipe) and inspect for cracks at the Duck valve.

If you look at your step filter you will notice the back edge of the grain compartment (where the rubber plugs are) is just above the top screen and just below the top edge of the step filter itself. If the Zymatic is level, you shouldn't get an overflow over the side of the step filter, by design. When running the Mash, the liquid level at the bottom of the step filter should be at or just below the lower screen, I have seen both and indicates the drain pump is removing the proper amount of wort and you don't have a stuck mash. Having the wort below the lower screen too far, indicates that the wort is not passing through the grain bed quick enough and is mostly going over the back edge of the step filter. If this happens, add more rice hulls to your grains to allow more wort to exit at the bottom, rather than overflowing. If this is the case, you're leaking from the rubber plugs IMO.

If all situations are normal, you could have an issue with your drain pump. Don't let PB tell you otherwise, I have seen it first hand and solved this problem without the aid of PB CS. I had a constant problem with the drain pump surging and allowing the wort to backup into the grain bed during heat to boil, eventually overflowing the adjunct compartment and over the side of the step filter and onto my table. Only after dismantling the Zym, removing the drain pump and opening/cleaning the pump head, did this problem go away. PB CS was correct in that the diaphragm was not bad, but it definitely needed a rebuild/clean. This is probably a rare instance so don't jump immediately to that conclusion.

PB CS will always error to the side of a cleaning issue or a block in the drain line for these types of errors, but if you look back at the pics I posted on earlier pages, you can see how simple the drain loop is. This is a big reason why I removed the poppets and springs in both the keg and the connectors. If while running, you see the wort through the test port surging and having a ton of bubbles, you most likely have a drain loop issue (this is also why I do not recommend you remove the test port). Could be an air leak at the Duck valve allowing air to enter the drain line prior to the pump, a crack in or around the Duck valve, or it could be a husk has made it's way into the drain pump diaphragm and is allowing air to pass from one chamber to the next.

If this is the case, you might try a good Deep Clean, see the link I posted, as this "may" remove your blockage by soaking the husk enough that the pump can expel it. I wouldn't recommend dismantling your Zymatic unless you are mechanically inclined and it's a last resort. PM if you need help with that, I've done it numerous times and my Zym is better for it.

If everything is working as expected, the Zym is level and you don't have any cracks, I would guess it is the rubber plugs 9 out of 10 times.
 
Hey thanks for the replies.

@Mike Howard - I will definitely be removing the poppets and springs. I don't know why I have done that! Also, thanks for the link back to your post. Definitely good info in there.

After giving it some more thought today, and reading through the replies, I suspect that I may have had a leveling issue. There as no indication that the adjunct compartment had flooded. There was no indication of wort dripping down through the plugs (but I will increase the amount of keg lube I am using).

The unit was low slightly low on one side. I have it on a cart that I roll in to a basement bathroom for brewing (tile floor) and I often don't check the level - especially if I haven't taken it out of the bathroom since the last brew. But... it does get moved around a bit in the room. As I said it was definitely low on one side, so it may have leaked over the side when it should have been draining into the back compartment.

Man, can't wait to go get rid of those springs and poppets...
 
These bios as update is really lacking content... Great we get to know some faces of people that work at PicoBrew in a very rehearsed way. At very least provide us with an update on the product and all the delays in delivering.
 
They should just come straight out and say yeah we didn't really develop this much at all until we did the kickstarter, and it is coming out in March or whenever. My wife said in June oh your machine is coming in July. I told her I'd be shocked if it came this year! It looks like they are making that prediction correct. I knew they overpromised and were going to underdeliver.

I am willing to wait which is why I did a kickstarter like thing here when established companies should not be doing that anymore. Putting a July date on it was frankly dishonest as everyone could see on the first posts about the Z that they weren't at all close to a beta/release candidate, and honestly there was no production release date that could be estimated at that time.

I get what they are doing because a lot of them come from my industry which is full of startups "faking it til they make it". I just think they should know their demographics here and understand that we would have waited anyway given an honest estimate. I just hope they don't rush given that they gave a wildly unrealistic initial launch date. I am OK with knowing the Zymatic can never be run long term due to the issues it has, but if this machine has systematic problems I will not buy a Picobrew product again

In general I think they mean well, but they can start to ditch the Silicon Valley start up like promises and be frank with us now.
 
@ssbbeebe the unit has to be exactly level I find especially on grain bills that are on the larger side. Like if you have 8 lbs of grain in there and the machine is even a bit off level it is going to leak. Also the tips on checking the flow on recirc are good as well. But that won't show what happens when the machine is not level with a lot of grain.
 
FWIW after Friday's "lack of any real update whatsoever" update email I got tired of waiting and pulled the trigger on a new Speidel Braumeister 20L system. It's a different beast than the Z to be sure, but it was on the short list of all in one systems I was looking at which included the original Zymatic. It was only when I reached out to ask a few questions about the Zymatic I was told about the new model "coming soon," so I decided to wait and then bought into the pre-order.

I've not yet cancelled my Z2 pre-order, but my new Braumeister comes tomorrow, and if I'm as pleased with it as I hope to be I'll cancel the Z2.
 
FWIW after Friday's "lack of any real update whatsoever" update email I got tired of waiting and pulled the trigger on a new Speidel Braumeister 20L system. It's a different beast than the Z to be sure, but it was on the short list of all in one systems I was looking at which included the original Zymatic. It was only when I reached out to ask a few questions about the Zymatic I was told about the new model "coming soon," so I decided to wait and then bought into the pre-order.

I've not yet cancelled my Z2 pre-order, but my new Braumeister comes tomorrow, and if I'm as pleased with it as I hope to be I'll cancel the Z2.
And that is why they, and most every Kickstarter, give ‘optimistic’ timelines.
 
Picobrew hasn't given an "optimistic" timeline in 3 years. The word I think Anyhowe was looking for is "unrealistic". Optimistic means "hopeful and confident about the future" or "involving an overestimate". Picobrew didn't over estimate anything, they under estimated. That comes from piss poor planning and lack of supplier knowledge.

Picobrew has a very bad name when it comes to making promises and delivering. They didn't learn anything from the Zymatic Kickstarter when it comes to keeping your supporters informed with "real" updates and timelines. Why put Jonathon on the spot instead of someone higher up in the program like Kevin or Doug? Lame.

You want to give me an optimistic timeline, give me a real month I can expect shipment of my Z2 and don't sugarcoat it for the fanboys. Tell me what month it can be expected. It's not that hard.
 
Sorry, I don't follow you. What about my post is why most Kickstarters give 'optimistic' timelines?
My beliefs on how it appears to work. YMMV. I think what you ended up doing is exactly what would happen if Kickstarter people gave long lead time dates for production.

Many Kickstarter followers are looking for something new and unique and will (and do) wait seemingly forever. Many people are actually looking for something they can use, maybe in the reasonable future. In this case a beer making machine. They see the latest cool thing and think this would be great! “I can get this cool widget by July, I’m in. It is longer than I want to wait but not too bad”. If the Kickstarter people said that the widgets would be available in July of the next year in 18-24 months many folks would do what you did, buy another product until this one is delivered. They need lots of funding up front. Early ‘delivery’ statements help that.
 
"Early ‘delivery’ statements help that"...So lying then....

Like this statement "Next week, we’ll take a look at some of the other internal components, and introduce you to one of our on-staff engineers." Well, technically a "half lie" since we did see a bio....
 
This wasnt a kickstarter. It was a preorder. A preorder that was marketed to appear like the product was in the pre-release/late stages of development with 6-7 months to release. That was a lie to grab cash. Guessing to stay afloat. You dont get a pay day loan from the inbev sharks because you are doing well.
 
It is a far stretch to call an investment from the venture capital arm of the largest brewer in the world a "payday loan". Inbev wants to have their hands in everything so if the day comes that people stop drinking mass produced light lagers, they will be in the market.
 
All those that pre-ordered are essentially giving free loan cash to the "maker of the product" with a promise that eventually something will be exchanged of "equal value". Though given that you get a discount essentially you are prebuying at a future set price that is stated to be higher, but typically drops immediately after shipping as it is years later and other products are competing on price.

Essentially you hit the nail on the head when you referred to these early shipping dates as "lies" as it is totally deception when most everyone (including backers) know very early on that those dates are going to come and go... Yeah I'm looking at a KS I backed several years ago that still hasn't fulfilled on anything.
 
All those that pre-ordered are essentially giving free loan cash to the "maker of the product" with a promise that eventually something will be exchanged of "equal value". Though given that you get a discount essentially you are prebuying at a future set price that is stated to be higher, but typically drops immediately after shipping as it is years later and other products are competing on price.

Essentially you hit the nail on the head when you referred to these early shipping dates as "lies" as it is totally deception when most everyone (including backers) know very early on that those dates are going to come and go... Yeah I'm looking at a KS I backed several years ago that still hasn't fulfilled on anything.

The more interesting thing about the Z is that it wasn't a kickstarter. It actually was a preorder. There's a massive difference.
 
Yeah I'd guess PicoBrew didn't want to lose 8-10% to fees. It wasn't a device that would be generally interesting to the consumer market like their other "recent Kickstarter failure" of the PicoU which they correctly IMO cancelled last minute (but should have cancelled much earlier... Read those updates, tweets and press coverage and man there was some massive miscommunication there).
 
Yeah I'd guess PicoBrew didn't want to lose 8-10% to fees. It wasn't a device that would be generally interesting to the consumer market like their other "recent Kickstarter failure" of the PicoU which they correctly IMO cancelled last minute (but should have cancelled much earlier... Read those updates, tweets and press coverage and man there was some massive miscommunication there).

Lolz. Yeah the U announcement was what made me decide that I might be better off canceling the Z2 order. That was a gigantic WTF. Can't even complain about the Zymatic now. I sold mine a few weeks back. On to bigger batches.
 
I also just saw on their Facebook page that this device can easily be used to do sous vide cooking (they had photos of making sous vide steak by "mashing" for 3 hours at 135F).
That is what I will miss the most with the Zymatic. I'd throw venison backstrap cutlets vacum packed in seasoning in it before I left for work and come home to some really good S.
 
Bummer...I'm looking for an extra Zymatic or two, as I have a special project I'm working on.
Boss has a friend who had a pico-c and was getting deeper into it while I need to free up space for an e-herms build. Out the door with a few extra kegs and 3 step filters for $700. $100 more than pico would have given me to keep the Ponzi going.
 
FWIW I did go ahead and cancel my Z2 pre-order on Thursday. I got my Braumeister 20L that day and was just blown away with the quality, and then I was re-reading some of this thread, and I just said to hell with it. It was pretty simple, I just emailed them and asked them to cancel. They did get back to me and offer me an additional brew keg + some Z packs if I stuck it out, but I declined.

Seems like they have sort of a canned response if folks email and ask about delays, because after offering me some extras for not canceling, in the same email the rep said, "Some additional info regarding the Z:" and then had some differently formatted text than the rest of their mail. In that response they said they had shipped their "final beta units" and "our first production units are shipping," but that's all news to me.

I did take the opportunity to tell them I thought they should be more transparent about what's going on and not waste our time with giving us bios of junior team members in the weekly emails.

They said the refund would take 5-10 business days.
 
FWIW I did go ahead and cancel my Z2 pre-order on Thursday...


That was probably for the best, but I'm sure your comments to Pico fell on deaf ears. I'm waiting until I see the first Z2 ship. I'm not near the top of those first pre-orders, so I have plenty of time to keep researching and working on my own stuff.
 

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