PicoBrew Zymatic

[amh0001]

Great reply Zymaticuser! Keep us up to date with the taste of your future batches. Porters cover up a lot!

 

[kcmobrewer]

Thanks for the info. I am strongly considering this as an option over a larger, and more expensive, electric setup.

I do love the simplicity of it. Just programming the way you want everything to work seems like a lot of fun even though you don't physically brew it yourself.

I have been curious though. Not sure if I just missed it in the videos... but how does it stir the mash? I figure it has to be stirred somehow to avoid doughballs.

 

[johnsnownw]

Hi,

I'm not a forum person, but want to add my two cents on this. I bought in to the picobrew kickstarter campaign early, with partners (it's expensive). We have had ours for a couple months now. As a group, we have been brewing together (and individually) since 2001. A partner brewed the included porter kit that came with the machine, and I have now brewed 4 batches personally, and am about to pass it on to another partner.

Though I appreciate the negative reaction this thing has got from a lot of homebrewers on this forum (those first few pages... yikes), I have to say I really like brewing with it. I for one, do not love the hotside of homebrewing. As someone else said, it does nothing for my soul. It's nice to hang out with friends during a boil, etc, but we all have kids now, and someone is always left alone over a hot stove while their wife looks on disapprovingly.

As I mentioned, I have brewed 4 batches on this thing. I also brewed the party porter recipe from picobrew, picking up ingredients at the local hombrew shop (one of my partners used the included kit before it got to me). The next 3 were my own recipes or clone recipes to learn how the picobrew process affects recipe outcomes. I will likely do one or two more this weekend before passing it off - probably using fermentation pails instead of the keg to ferment, so I have the keg to run the deep clean with.

With regard to process: it's almost as easy as they make it look. The "boil" in the keg is ingenious, as is the primary fermentation in the keg. 2.5 gallon batches are a little small for our liking, but it's allowing us to experiment with more varieties of beer right now - and to stack improvisations on recipes next to each other to see what works and what doesn't. I brew on the deck next to my living room, and with the picobrew watched movies with my daughter and my buddies throughout our brews. Normally I'd be chasing her away from vats of boiling wort.

Cleaning is more involved than I thought, but when isn't cleaning a *****? All the compartments, etc fit into a dishwasher as advertized, but the hop residue needs be thoroughly washed out of the mesh cages and takes some effort. Same with the inline filter. Overall construction seems to be sturdy, though only time will tell on this thing. That said, I don't feel it is an easily broken machine.

I also appreciate being able to monitor temperatures and progress on my phone. I actually found it addicting somehow, watching it do exactly what I programmed it to do.

I don't have a kegerator at the moment, but one of our partners does. So I have (and will be) bottling these batches. Remarkably easy with a CO2 tank and a spring bottom bottle wand. Not sure why I never thought of that before.

With regard to results: (the reason I find myself writing this tonight), I opened my first bottle of the party porter tonight to test. I am bottle conditioning the rest for a couple more weeks. It was as good as most porters I have bought at the liquor store (which is admittedly rare - as I prefer hoppy bitter beers). My wife thought it was one of my best brews ever (which says something, as she has happily been drinking my homebrew since the early 2000's). She also likes sweeter beers, so there's that. I detected no off tastes of any kind, and no infection despite being the second batch brewed on the machine. My brewing partner who brewed the same recipe but from the kit was just as impressed with his batch.

For those concerned with sanitation, I actually don't think it's an issue with this process. The brew is held at a screaming hot temperature and cycled through the keg and transfer tubes for over an hour. Anything in there that might infect a beer has to deal with near boil temperatures for over an hour, and then the wort sits in a keg at a very high temperature again, before cooling. It's not much different from a pot and the coils of a wort chiller, in my mind. I am happy to be corrected on this, but only by someone familiar with the machine. Of course, I am religious about cleaning and sanitation before, during and after every brew, (more than most I think), and I am on this machine as well. I just don't see how it adds additional concerns around sanitation that some have raised on this forum.

I hope that's food for fodder. Likely my last post, but I may update on how my other brews turnout.

Cheers,

MM

I hate to be "that guy," but...this seems like more shilling for the product, rather than an honest review from a homebrewer.

"Your'e not a forum person."
"Likely my last post, but I may update how my other brews turn out"

Not to mention that you are regurgitating the same thing every other new member who has only ever posted once about the Zymatic on this forum, and others, has done. You claim to not like the "hot" side of brewing, appeal to the machine's strengths pointed out in the literature, discuss all the other things you can do now that it's automated.

This may in fact be an honest review...but it certainly doesn't read that way. If this is an honest review, maybe next time consider posting some pictures and possibly not going with a product specific username.

Anyway, I hate that I have to be so skeptical about people posting on this topic, but past shilling has muddied the waters.

 

[amh0001]

Hey kcmo, It doesn't stir the mash. It just recirculates the hot what through the step filter grain bed.I guess dough balls aren't an issue.

 

[kcmobrewer]

Hmm that's weird lol. Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[kal]

Hey kcmo, It doesn't stir the mash. It just recirculates the hot what through the step filter grain bed.I guess dough balls aren't an issue.

Correct. It's not weird at all - I recirculate with my HERMS setup (as would RIMS users) and don't really have to stir when I mash in as the recirculation does the "stirring" for me.

It's really only the picnic cooler type mash tuns that require stirring when first mixing the water and grain.

Kal

 

[ZymaticUser]

Great reply Zymaticuser! Keep us up to date with the taste of your future batches. Porters cover up a lot!

You're absolutely right about porters covering up a lot. I have two batches of IPA's in fermentation right now, as well as an irish red ale. I will post honest thoughts when I taste them in a few weeks.

Cheers,

Mark

 

[ZymaticUser]

Thanks for the info. I am strongly considering this as an option over a larger, and more expensive, electric setup.

I do love the simplicity of it. Just programming the way you want everything to work seems like a lot of fun even though you don't physically brew it yourself.

I have been curious though. Not sure if I just missed it in the videos... but how does it stir the mash? I figure it has to be stirred somehow to avoid doughballs.

Hi Kcmobrewer,

The precision and simplicity of the process is the most appealing part of owning this thing. Again, it needs to be proven with more batches and taste tests though.

We also thought of using RIMS-HERMS set ups - and I've seen them at friends' places. They offer mash temperature control, repeatability and can perform complex mash schedules just as the picobrew can. But none of us have the room anymore. This thing is compact, and I actually don't mind a smaller batch when it is so easy to rip off another one right away.

No problems with dough balls that I have encountered so far. It does not stir the mash.

Mark

 

[ZymaticUser]

You know what? I haven't been glowing ENOUGH about this company, considering how many accusations are thrown at them on this forum without any real-world accountability.

My experience with the Picobrew company has been fantastic. Ours was one of the earlier machines shipped (arrived mid-August). It came with an old version of their since re-tooled foam trap (essentially a super large airlock). The foam trap has a small plastic part on bottom akin to the bottom of an airlock, which snapped when I pressed it into the keg seal too hard. I mentioned it to them by email, just wondering how to fix it (super glue, etc) and WITHOUT MY ASKING there was a replacement at my door when I returned from work the next day. And with it was a little gadget to increase the strength of my wifi signal as my machine was out on the deck and not picking up signals well. I live across the border, and trust me, one day service like this is a very unusual experience.

Then they called me to ask me if I wanted help setting up the wifi bridge. Without my asking.

And then I found out they also sent a wifi extender to my brewing partner as well.

I also wanted to adapt a Fat Tug IPA clone for the picobrew, and within a few hours Annie Johnson (who knows a thing or two about beer) had offered me advice, and had also gone ahead and created a recipe and uploaded it to the community library. She has done the same for me again for an Epic Brewing Double Skull doppelbock clone and a Jack's Abby Hoponious Union india pale lager clone.

Finally, our machine shipped fairly early. But I know others are still waiting for theirs due to their supplier problems. So apparently Picobrew sent out (or is sending out) extra kits to every kickstarter supporter. A PicoPale Ale arrived at my doorstep the other day.

You know, for a bunch of shills and master forum manipulators, they sure know how to keep customers happy.

 

[kcmobrewer]

Thanks again for all the info. Can't wait to hear about future taste tests and further operation review.

Please don't be a stranger. People like you help me be less indecisive lol.

Another question though. Is there no mechanism within the setup to cool the wort to pitching temps? Or fermentation temp control?

It didn't look like it. Thought maybe hidden in those jackets were peltier coolers or something.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[johnsnownw]

Another question though. Is there no mechanism within the setup to cool the wort to pitching temps? Or fermentation temp control?

There is not.

That is one of the things I took issue with during their Kickstarter campaign. They made it seem like you turned on the Zymatic, and out came beer.

They have mentioned several ways you can cool the wort. One thing that was rather intriguing was the idea that you would take an immersion chiller,submerse it in an ice bath, and recirculate the wort through the immersion chiller and machine.

Fermentation temp control, though, is on you.

 

[Owly055]

You know what? I haven't been glowing ENOUGH about this company, considering how many accusations are thrown at them on this forum without any real-world accountability.

My experience with the Picobrew company has been fantastic. Ours was one of the earlier machines shipped (arrived mid-August). It came with an old version of their since re-tooled foam trap (essentially a super large airlock). The foam trap has a small plastic part on bottom akin to the bottom of an airlock, which snapped when I pressed it into the keg seal too hard. I mentioned it to them by email, just wondering how to fix it (super glue, etc) and WITHOUT MY ASKING there was a replacement at my door when I returned from work the next day. And with it was a little gadget to increase the strength of my wifi signal as my machine was out on the deck and not picking up signals well. I live across the border, and trust me, one day service like this is a very unusual experience.

Then they called me to ask me if I wanted help setting up the wifi bridge. Without my asking.

And then I found out they also sent a wifi extender to my brewing partner as well.

I also wanted to adapt a Fat Tug IPA clone for the picobrew, and within a few hours Annie Johnson (who knows a thing or two about beer) had offered me advice, and had also gone ahead and created a recipe and uploaded it to the community library. She has done the same for me again for an Epic Brewing Double Skull doppelbock clone and a Jack's Abby Hoponious Union india pale lager clone.

Finally, our machine shipped fairly early. But I know others are still waiting for theirs due to their supplier problems. So apparently Picobrew sent out (or is sending out) extra kits to every kickstarter supporter. A PicoPale Ale arrived at my doorstep the other day.

You know, for a bunch of shills and master forum manipulators, they sure know how to keep customers happy.

Just good business.............. A new product fights an uphill battle for acceptance. The satisfied owner is the cheapest advertising there is, AND the best. This was one of the first lessons I learned in my 30+ years of being in business. Provide the customer with what they want, waste no time in correcting problems, and you've got it made. I don't expect a new product to be perfect, I DO expect the company to be responsive and determined to resolve problems quickly, and willing to communicate. I would say that the Pico Brew passes the test.
Clearly the chill process is the only place it really falls down, but how much can you expect for the price?

I brew 2.5 gallon batches once a week........... tomorrow AM is brew day. I will spend 2 hours from start to finish, something few people can claim. But I've worked hard at refining my process so I can do this. Would I buy a PicoBrew? No, but not because I don't think it's a great product.............. Because I can't justify the expenditure.

The PicoBrew has a real business potential. Imagine the LHBS owning several of them. You and your buddies are sitting around shooting the breeze and sipping homebrew, arguing about weather to add some more Amarillo, Nelson, Saaz, or making it a bit darker and sweeter.......more crystal, or perhaps wondering what difference Vienna would make. Soon you are hunched over your Ipad crafting a recipe using Brewer's Friend or BeerSmith. You get done, log onto the LHBS site and upload the recipe, and authorize payment using PayPal. Tomorrow after work, you drop by the LHBS, and pick up your wort. Likewise the professional Brewmaster at a microbrewery. You want to try 5 variants to see what works. Do you do it on your own equipment? or do you use the LHBS Picobrew system? All the ingredients are in stock at the LHBS, and it takes minutes to craft the variants........... It's a no brainer. When the LHBS opens up in the AM, they have 15 different brews to run. The beer guy sets up each one, and hopefully doesn't mix things up ;-).

Beer Prototyping could be a money maker.

H.W.

 

[FarmerTed]

There is not.

That is one of the things I took issue with during their Kickstarter campaign. They made it seem like you turned on the Zymatic, and out came beer.

They have mentioned several ways you can cool the wort. One thing that was rather intriguing was the idea that you would take an immersion chiller,submerse it in an ice bath, and recirculate the wort through the immersion chiller and machine.

Fermentation temp control, though, is on you.

Clearly, you're the sensitive sort. You only have 39 posts in this thread bitching about picobrew and their kickstarter campaign. Do you actually have anything to add? I haven't seen anything myself.

 

[johnsnownw]

Clearly, you're the sensitive sort. You only have 39 posts in this thread bitching about picobrew and their kickstarter campaign. Do you actually have anything to add? I haven't seen anything myself.

I don't think I need someone who advocates oxidizing their beer, during bottle capping, commenting on what I have to offer the hobby/thread.

What do you have to offer?

 

[tstrand]

I am really surprised by the negativity on this thread. I just received my new PicoBrew machine on Thursday and brewed my first batch today. I was an avid home brewer up to 6-7 years ago, but honestly did not have the time to brew. I thought that the PicoBrew was a fantastic idea. I will say that the brewing experience was fantastic. The machine worked flawlessly, and required very little interaction after it was started. I will say that at first the chilling part looked confusing, but it turned out to be very simple and straight forward. I put the korny keg inside a home depot 5g bucket of tap water. I emptied that 3 times and put fresh water in. During this time the machine was Chilling (circulating). Once the wort hit about 120 degrees, I slowly added ice inside the Home Depot bucket. My recipe called for a 70 pitch temp and I went from 207F to 69F in about 1 hour. I think if I add ice to the bucket sooner, it will speed up the process. Overall I am really excited, and the Wife and I have plans to brew another batch tomorrow. (That never happened with my previous setup). In a few weeks, I will find out how my Pico Pale Ale turned out from a taste perspective, but brewing was great. I just added a picture of the brewing Data in case anybody wanted to see what the brewing data looks like.

-Ted-

 

[amh0001]

Tstrand,

Thank you so much for your post. I know there are a lot of us watching this thread for actual reviews and feedback instead of speculation (that is mostly negative). Make sure to tell us how the beer tastes!

 

[Brewinator]

Anyway, I hate that I have to be so skeptical about people posting on this topic, but past shilling has muddied the waters.

If anything has muddied the waters, it's all the "experts" on this forum that were hating on a device before it even shipped, let alone something that they had ever seen or used in person.

So I welcome people who have actually used PicoBrew posting their opinions, instead of all the "experts" on this forum. Maybe it's the long-time forum guys who should sit down and shut up until they've actually used the the device.

 

[mjdonnelly68]

If anything has muddied the waters, it's all the "experts" on this forum that were hating on a device before it even shipped, let alone something that they had ever seen or used in person.

So I welcome people who have actually used PicoBrew posting their opinions, instead of all the "experts" on this forum. Maybe it's the long-time forum guys who should sit down and shut up until they've actually used the the device.

I don't think I need to use the device to be critical of it.

The PicoBrew folks have done a great job of advertising the value proposition of this product. From their website: "The process of homebrewing, now simplified and automated, allows anyone to brew craft beer in the comfort of their own kitchen."

I like home brewing because it's NOT simple and automated. It's complex and involved and infinitely changeable. It's not easy to make good beer, that's what makes it challenging and fun. The ability to tame the brewing beast is what gives us a sense of accomplishment. It's what makes us home brewers.

I'm not saying that folks shouldn't WANT a PicoBrew. I understand the target audience. What I do object to is this increasingly pervasive belief that technology can and should do everything for us.

Owning a PicoBrew doesn't make you a home brewer any more than owning an iPod makes you a DJ or owning a GPS makes you an Explorer. When I poo-poo the PicoBrew, it's not to denigrate the technology (rendering rebuttal by functionality moot) but to question the need and desire for the technology. I criticize to emphasize (and celebrate) the Art of home brewing.

Yes, the PicoBrew "allows anyone to brew craft beer in the comfort of their own kitchen." I posit that automation precludes accomplishment. There is NOT an App for that.

So fans of PicoBrew are welcome to make craft beer in their kitchen. We home brewers will be making Art out in the garage.

 

[kkramer56]

And I don't understand the Microsoft hate here. So what if the guy was a former VP at MS? There are tons of successful silicon valley types using kickstarter to fund their next project. At it's heart kickstarter is just a pre-order system.

I think the hate is, he has the money to fund this project himself but he doesn't want to spend HIS money, he would rather take it from other people.

 

[Owly055]

I don't think I need to use the device to be critical of it.

The PicoBrew folks have done a great job of advertising the value proposition of this product. From their website: "The process of homebrewing, now simplified and automated, allows anyone to brew craft beer in the comfort of their own kitchen."

I like home brewing because it's NOT simple and automated. It's complex and involved and infinitely changeable. It's not easy to make good beer, that's what makes it challenging and fun. The ability to tame the brewing beast is what gives us a sense of accomplishment. It's what makes us home brewers.

I'm not saying that folks shouldn't WANT a PicoBrew. I understand the target audience. What I do object to is this increasingly pervasive belief that technology can and should do everything for us.

Owning a PicoBrew doesn't make you a home brewer any more than owning an iPod makes you a DJ or owning a GPS makes you an Explorer. When I poo-poo the PicoBrew, it's not to denigrate the technology (rendering rebuttal by functionality moot) but to question the need and desire for the technology. I criticize to emphasize (and celebrate) the Art of home brewing.

Yes, the PicoBrew "allows anyone to brew craft beer in the comfort of their own kitchen." I posit that automation precludes accomplishment. There is NOT an App for that.

So fans of PicoBrew are welcome to make craft beer in their kitchen. We home brewers will be making Art out in the garage.

The implication here is insulting..........That somehow a PicoBrew owner is not a legitimate home brewer. Somehow those of us who do it the old way are better. We're REAL home brewers, not technogeeks. I expect the same sort of snobbery is directed at those of us who use BIAB. What about the guy who has the three vessel system with electronic control system he programs to do his brew, or the Braumeister owner?
I could see the contempt here if the PicoBrew was a system where you simply bought a pre-packaged kit of vacuum packed ingredients, like a Keurig. In the case of the PicoBrew, the owner still has to craft the recipe, or copy it, set up the process he wants, buy the ingredients from the LHBS. It's no more automated than some of the HERMS systems that have electronic controllers, or the Braumeister.
Let's be INCLUSIVE here............ snobbery is NOT appreciated!

H.W.

 

[johnsnownw]

If anything has muddied the waters, it's all the "experts" on this forum that were hating on a device before it even shipped, let alone something that they had ever seen or used in person.

So I welcome people who have actually used PicoBrew posting their opinions, instead of all the "experts" on this forum. Maybe it's the long-time forum guys who should sit down and shut up until they've actually used the the device.

If pointing out perceived weaknesses of a system, possible drawbacks, and the outright misrepresentation of a product is "muddying the waters," then call me guilty.

Anyway, not many of us are hating on the concept of this product. Picobrew isn't the first automated brewing system on the market...just the one that was crowd sourcing funding with an advertising campaign that misrepresented the product.

 

[mjdonnelly68]

The implication here is insulting..........That somehow a PicoBrew owner is not a legitimate home brewer. Somehow those of us who do it the old way are better. We're REAL home brewers, not technogeeks. I expect the same sort of snobbery is directed at those of us who use BIAB. What about the guy who has the three vessel system with electronic control system he programs to do his brew, or the Braumeister owner?
I could see the contempt here if the PicoBrew was a system where you simply bought a pre-packaged kit of vacuum packed ingredients, like a Keurig. In the case of the PicoBrew, the owner still has to craft the recipe, or copy it, set up the process he wants, buy the ingredients from the LHBS. It's no more automated than some of the HERMS systems that have electronic controllers, or the Braumeister.
Let's be INCLUSIVE here............ snobbery is NOT appreciated!

H.W.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1708005089/picobrew-zymatic-the-automatic-beer-brewing-applia

2.5Gal brewing capacity. Neat concept. Price is not that bad compared to other turnkey. Dishwasher and flush cleanup? Sound pretty neat. I could see this one taking off.

What do others think?

I'm sorry if you find my opinion snobbish or insulting. That was not my intent.

But if you took offense at my asserting that automation removes some of the skill from home brewing and therefore an automated system is a lesser form of home brewing - then you've got me dead to rights.

I support leveraging technology in the support of the process of brewing but I don't support automation as a substitute for brewing. PicoBrew chose the word 'automated' for a reason - they are selling technology that removes process from brewing. That's why I'm not a supporter.

There have been an awful lot of hurt feelings on both sides of this post. I know it's been awhile but let's remember that the OP's question was "What do others think?". Let's stop flaming each other for merely answering the OP's question.

 

[Owly055]

I'm sorry if you find my opinion snobbish or insulting. That was not my intent.

But if you took offense at my asserting that automation removes some of the skill from home brewing and therefore an automated system is a lesser form of home brewing - then you've got me dead to rights.

I support leveraging technology in the support of the process of brewing but I don't support automation as a substitute for brewing. PicoBrew chose the word 'automated' for a reason - they are selling technology that removes process from brewing. That's why I'm not a supporter.

There have been an awful lot of hurt feelings on both sides of this post. I know it's been awhile but let's remember that the OP's question was "What do others think?". Let's stop flaming each other for merely answering the OP's question.

MJ:
I guess I have you "dead to rights" in your own words. Designing the recipe, and the process, is to me what brewing is about. I choose the grains and the hops, and make a decision on the mash schedule. I brew using BIAB because I see absolutely no benefit in the "conventional" mash and sparge methods..... they are just "traditional", not "better". I can go through the process time and again, and I do. What's the point? I can't afford a PicoBrew, or I would own one. I've brewed 35 times this year, and I doubt that very many members can claim that ( I my first all grain brew was on February 27 2014, so I'm a newbie). After 35 brews, I am still experimenting with hops and malts, honing in on what I like. I engineer things all the time for customers, and some of them I build with my own hands, but my most valuable skill is the ability to engineer things that work and keep on working. Should I build everything I design with my own hands? Yes I can do that. I can run a lathe and a milling machine, I can weld, I can design and build electronic circuits, I can put hydraulic systems together down to making the hose, but isn't my time wasted doing that? There are a world of people out there that can do those things, but not very many who can do what I do. The same applies to brewing. Should a master brewmaster who has a feel for the grains & hops and knows how to craft a mash schedule to get what he wants, do everything with his own hands? Should he, like my brewmaster friend grind the grain, measure the hops, and ride herd on every brew? My friend experiments with 15 barrel batches....... which I think is insane!! Would he be less of a brewer if he used PicoBrew to hone in on that illusive flavor he's shooting for?
How important is the "skill" level when it comes to preheating a mash tun, adding grain and strike water, stirring and leaving it for a specific amount of time, sparging and lautering? How important is "skill" level when it comes to boiling and adding hops at the right time? You can do these things a thousand times, and yet they are still things a trained monkey can do. If a computer can do them, do they qualify as "skill"? The real skill in brewing lies elsewhere. Like a professional chef, is he paid big bucks to stir the pot and chop the vegetables and meat? Obviously NOT. That's what his assistants do. He has the "big picture", and directs the symphony of workers. The same applies to brewing. We don't need mechanics brewing........ we need artists! How many home brewers to a step mash, or a decoction? Most of us do single step infusion mashing in one form or another.......... because it's easier. With a PicoBrew or Braumeister, you can program it all in (maybe not a decoction). My friend could call up the LHBS and order 5 mashes made to hone in on the ideal recipe instead of playing with 15 barrel batches.
I've distilled many gallons of beer that didn't make the grade. A 15 barrel beer that isn't a seller represents a big loss........... At 5 hours and many weeks before drinking, a 5 gallon of 10 gallon brew represents a significant risk. PicoBrew is a GOOD idea, and a good tool.


H.W.

H.W.

 

[mjdonnelly68]

We'll agree to disagree then.

Cheers!

 

[crane]

I'm sorry if you find my opinion snobbish or insulting. That was not my intent.

But if you took offense at my asserting that automation removes some of the skill from home brewing and therefore an automated system is a lesser form of home brewing - then you've got me dead to rights.

I support leveraging technology in the support of the process of brewing but I don't support automation as a substitute for brewing. PicoBrew chose the word 'automated' for a reason - they are selling technology that removes process from brewing. That's why I'm not a supporter.

There have been an awful lot of hurt feelings on both sides of this post. I know it's been awhile but let's remember that the OP's question was "What do others think?". Let's stop flaming each other for merely answering the OP's question.

I think it is a rather bold choice you made to diss automation on a post in the automation forum.

I have found that automation in my brewing setup allows me focus on designing and making great beers. Before automation I was so damn concerned about hitting my numbers that I could care less about the minor details of the recipe. With automation I no longer need to be an expert at setting my gas valve to the exact right position to maintain a temperature or boil off rate. I no longer have to wonder how this beer would have turned out if I mashed at 148 instead of the 151 I accidentally ended up at. I had no interest in perfecting the art of adding hot water to cold grain and have my cooler and all of its contents come out to a specific temperature. I was interested in designing and making great beer. Automation has helped me to focus on doing just that.

The picobrew does not remove the process from brewing. It allows the user to have control over the process of brewing.

 

[kcmobrewer]

I don't see any less skill involved in this versus using an automated E HERMS setup.

I like automation. I personally would opt for E HERMS but I do like the picobrew.



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[mjdonnelly68]

I think it is a rather bold choice you made to diss automation on a post in the automation forum.

I have found that automation in my brewing setup allows me focus on designing and making great beers. Before automation I was so damn concerned about hitting my numbers that I could care less about the minor details of the recipe. With automation I no longer need to be an expert at setting my gas valve to the exact right position to maintain a temperature or boil off rate. I no longer have to wonder how this beer would have turned out if I mashed at 148 instead of the 151 I accidentally ended up at. I had no interest in perfecting the art of adding hot water to cold grain and have my cooler and all of its contents come out to a specific temperature. I was interested in designing and making great beer. Automation has helped me to focus on doing just that.

The picobrew does not remove the process from brewing. It allows the user to have control over the process of brewing.

Well, fortune favors the bold.

I'm not against automation. My rig is a Blichmann top tier with the tower of power. As I've said, I support leveraging technology in support of brewing. I just don't support technology as a replacement for brewing.

I get why folks would like the PicoBrew. But it's disingenuous to say that this product is not designed to remove process from brewing. Just re-watch the kick-starter video. They talk about it being 'an espresso maker for beer' and 'making beer being as easy as pressing one button and walking away'. Now it may be more than that in the hands of an experienced brewer, but it's clearly aimed at folks who are daunted or dissatisfied by the rigors of the brewing process.

Out my way, we have a very successful craft beer company called Three Heads Brewing. They hit it big with a great double IPA called the Kind. It's a great beer. By their choice, the founders of Three Heads have never brewed a drop commercially. They design the recipes and have it contract brewed and distributed.

I contrast Three Heads with brewers like Vinnie Cilurzo at Russian River and Chad Yakobson at Crooked Stave. Those guys are brewers who, through batch after batch of experimentation, have changed the face of craft beer.

Both Three Heads and Russian River make great beer. I'm sure the PicoBrew can make great beer. But I make a very clear distinction between a beer maker and a brewer. Vinnie Cilurzo is a brewer. Three Heads is a beer maker.

Now, let's assume you are an experienced home brewer who has put in the time to master and understand the brewing process. If you are that person and you are supporting the PicoBrew as a way to leverage automation to produce your tried and true recipes will less muss and fuss - than good on you. You are automating what has been earned. I don't disagree with that.

But if you are someone new to home brewing, and you choose the PicoBrew because it seems like the path of least resistance, I wouldn't necessarily call you a home brewer. I would call you a home beer maker.

Again, I don't believe that it's only home brewing if there is suffering. But I'm old school in that I believe that it's important to the craft to put in the time to master the basics (and beyond the basics if you want to achieve true skill).

I think we mostly agree here - automation is a great tool for consistency and repeatability. I just step off in the case where automation is used to skip the basic and intermediate steps necessary for mastery.

As I think we've mowed all the tall grass on this issue I'll end my contribution with this: I got to try the PicoBrew beers at NCH in Michigan this summer and they were good. Very clean and tasty. The PicoBrew is clearly a way to make good beer, it's just not the way for me.

Cheers!

 

[FarmerTed]

I don't think I need someone who advocates oxidizing their beer, during bottle capping, commenting on what I have to offer the hobby/thread.

What do you have to offer?

Again, you have no idea what you're talking about, but clearly that won't stop you. I'm mainly interested in keeping the signal-to-noise ratio high in this thread (as it is everywhere on HBT). You're killing it with your post-whoring. That is all.

 

[bford]

Well, fortune favors the bold.

I'm not against automation. My rig is a Blichmann top tier with the tower of power. As I've said, I support leveraging technology in support of brewing. I just don't support technology as a replacement for brewing.

I get why folks would like the PicoBrew. But it's disingenuous to say that this product is not designed to remove process from brewing. Just re-watch the kick-starter video. They talk about it being 'an espresso maker for beer' and 'making beer being as easy as pressing one button and walking away'. Now it may be more than that in the hands of an experienced brewer, but it's clearly aimed at folks who are daunted or dissatisfied by the rigors of the brewing process.

Out my way, we have a very successful craft beer company called Three Heads Brewing. They hit it big with a great double IPA called the Kind. It's a great beer. By their choice, the founders of Three Heads have never brewed a drop commercially. They design the recipes and have it contract brewed and distributed.

I contrast Three Heads with brewers like Vinnie Cilurzo at Russian River and Chad Yakobson at Crooked Stave. Those guys are brewers who, through batch after batch of experimentation, have changed the face of craft beer.

Both Three Heads and Russian River make great beer. I'm sure the PicoBrew can make great beer. But I make a very clear distinction between a beer maker and a brewer. Vinnie Cilurzo is a brewer. Three Heads is a beer maker.

Now, let's assume you are an experienced home brewer who has put in the time to master and understand the brewing process. If you are that person and you are supporting the PicoBrew as a way to leverage automation to produce your tried and true recipes will less muss and fuss - than good on you. You are automating what has been earned. I don't disagree with that.

But if you are someone new to home brewing, and you choose the PicoBrew because it seems like the path of least resistance, I wouldn't necessarily call you a home brewer. I would call you a home beer maker.

Again, I don't believe that it's only home brewing if there is suffering. But I'm old school in that I believe that it's important to the craft to put in the time to master the basics (and beyond the basics if you want to achieve true skill).

I think we mostly agree here - automation is a great tool for consistency and repeatability. I just step off in the case where automation is used to skip the basic and intermediate steps necessary for mastery.

As I think we've mowed all the tall grass on this issue I'll end my contribution with this: I got to try the PicoBrew beers at NCH in Michigan this summer and they were good. Very clean and tasty. The PicoBrew is clearly a way to make good beer, it's just not the way for me.

Cheers!

Completely disagree.. the picobrew isn't going to make great beer unless you know what to do throughout the process.. from picking the right ingredients.. storing them properly....

Fermenting correctly... knowing when fermentation is done.... bottling or kegging correctly.. if you can do those things right... and make great beer.. wether its a big automated system, small automated system... or outside on gas... or inside BYOB.. you are a brewer.. not a beermaker. JMO of course.

 

[johnsnownw]

I'm mainly interested in keeping the signal-to-noise ratio high in this thread (as it is everywhere on HBT).

You have an interesting way of going about it. That is all.

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

I think the packers are the best nfl team.

 

[crane]

i think the packers are the best nfl team.

+1

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

I just wanted to say something that nobody would argue about

 

[hunter_le five]

This is better than television. Keep it up guys.

 

[jaywhy]

Up to the 200th unit.

 

[kcmobrewer]

Anyone have any finished product yet?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[stpauliboy]

Up to the 200th unit.

And mine is one of them - got an email with a UPS tracking number yesterday.

 

[jaywhy]

And mine is one of them - got an email with a UPS tracking number yesterday.

Awesome. Looking forward to your review.

 

[moleary33]

Where do you find out what number they are on and what number you are on

 

[stpauliboy]

Where do you find out what number they are on and what number you are on

Their last shipping update from the kickstarter page says they have shipped 200 units (some of them are replacements for damaged units). A reasonable guess is that they have shipped to 190 backers.
25 - first pilot run
75 - second pilot run
100 - first production run
55 - international backers
159 - second production run

I was in the first production run and somewhere towards the end which makes sense - my unit just shipped. At one time they were intending to ship 25 a week and ramp up to 50 a week. They haven't been close to that - somewhere between 10 and 25 a week. You will have to figure out what group you are in and at what stage you signed up to guess at how many people are in front of you. You could try to email them and see if they will tell you what number you are in the que.

UPS says mine is arriving Friday - stopped by Northern Brewer today and picked up some grains and yeast. Could be brewing Saturday