PicoBrew Zymatic

[Anyhowe]

Good information here thanks.

I'm now looking for the best price and had considered buying used or perhaps a returned unit. After doing the research it's obvious that having the warranty is critical for mechanical issues so I emailed Picobrew to see if the warranty is transferable and below is the response I received back. I emailed in the morning and was surprised to have a response back in an hour unfortunitly it wasn't the answer I was looking for.

Anybody know the best prices out there? I'm thinking about buying the version with out the keg and using one of my ball lock corny kegs and cutting down the pick up tube a 1/2" to save a bit of $$$ Looks like $1850.00 without the keg is currently the best buy. Hoping maybe next week there might be a holiday special at one of the suppliers.

1). Simply the best customer service one could EVER experience.

2) Just make sure your kegs have the standard corney relief valve. The reason is that they now have a spunding valve developed for the Pico that simply screws in and replaces the corney valve thus ending the need for any kind of airlock during fermentation. This also provides the added benefit of fermenting under pressure which allows higher fermentation temps with no Off flavors.

These guys are very good, and very smart on several fronts from enzyme technology to engineering and computer sophistication.

 

[pagrider]

Waruaki

Go on the facebook page every once in while someone will sell theirs they go fast

 

[waruaki]

Waruaki

Go on the facebook page every once in while someone will sell theirs they go fast

Thanks for the tip

 

[steelsnow]

@Waruaki: In case you happen to be traveling down to NorCal over the holiday, there is one listed on Craigslist in Santa Cruz for $1200, and per the listing it was completely refurbished by Picobrew already (guess that could be a + or a -, depending on how you look at it...). Saw you were in Oregon so passing it on just in case.

Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[waruaki]

@Waruaki: In case you happen to be traveling down to NorCal over the holiday, there is one listed on Craigslist in Santa Cruz for $1200, and per the listing it was completely refurbished by Picobrew already (guess that could be a + or a -, depending on how you look at it...). Saw you were in Oregon so passing it on just in case.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Thanks for the heads up steelsnow,

Amazon ended up dropping there price down to $1855 in the last day or so for a new unit with keg and I pulled the trigger on it this morning. After corresponding with Kevin at Picobrew and being told that the warranty is not transferable on a used Zymatic I didn't feel comfortable buying used.

Happy Thanksgiving to you as well

 

[ShaLaH]

Thanks for the heads up steelsnow,



Amazon ended up dropping there price down to $1855 in the last day or so for a new unit with keg and I pulled the trigger on it this morning. After corresponding with Kevin at Picobrew and being told that the warranty is not transferable on a used Zymatic I didn't feel comfortable buying used.



Happy Thanksgiving to you as well

Same here, pulled the trigger on Amazon this week. Having that warranty is a good piece of mind with so many internal parts & electronics.

Happy Thanksgiving fellow Brewers!

 

[truthrider]

I own a Zymatic. The unit works well but the company has essentially stopped supporting it. They will help you with good customer service but they have stopped the software development. For a long time, they were saying that there is a big update coming that will un-tap it's potential. They have stopped saying that. The grainfather seems to be taking market share and the Brewie looks like a more viable concept.
Anyway, I expect that I will be discontinued in the next year or two.

Here is a recent post from the private Pico forum:

Based on some issues I've personally caught and reported to them (full up firmware release) - I wouldn't trust their software enough to pay extra for this. We've basically been Beta testers this whole time.

They established themselves as a forerunner of this technology with the release of the Z. They could be absolutely crushing any competition coming online right now if they had bothered to make any real updates. Having an equivalent or marginally better product , with a track record of building & delivering hardware in their own facility, should be their incentive to deliver upgrades.

Still not holding my breath.

 

[Denny]

I own a Zymatic. The unit works well but the company has essentially stopped supporting it. They will help you with good customer service but they have stopped the software development. For a long time, they were saying that there is a big update coming that will un-tap it's potential. They have stopped saying that. The grainfather seems to be taking market share and the Brewie looks like a more viable concept.
Anyway, I expect that I will be discontinued in the next year or two.

Here is a recent post from the private Pico forum:

Based on some issues I've personally caught and reported to them (full up firmware release) - I wouldn't trust their software enough to pay extra for this. We've basically been Beta testers this whole time.

They established themselves as a forerunner of this technology with the release of the Z. They could be absolutely crushing any competition coming online right now if they had bothered to make any real updates. Having an equivalent or marginally better product , with a track record of building & delivering hardware in their own facility, should be their incentive to deliver upgrades.

Still not holding my breath.

How do you know they've stopped supporting it? Do you have inside info?

 

[ShaLaH]

While awaiting my Zymatic I started doing some searches in the Pico Brew forum and it does seem that there are a lot of issues/troubleshooting that go unanswered. I make really hoppy beers and there were several threads addressing how to make really hoppy beers. Many of the threads just die out with someone saying, I'm gonna try this or that and report back, but they never report back. It seems like it's very difficult to get definitive answers for many things. This concerns me a little.

Also, after the warranty, let's say your pump, or the electronics break, do you have to ship the Z back to have it repaired? Shipping + Repair would be pretty costly I imagine.

 

[waruaki]

While awaiting my Zymatic I started doing some searches in the Pico Brew forum and it does seem that there are a lot of issues/troubleshooting that go unanswered. I make really hoppy beers and there were several threads addressing how to make really hoppy beers. Many of the threads just die out with someone saying, I'm gonna try this or that and report back, but they never report back. It seems like it's very difficult to get definitive answers for many things. This concerns me

Agreed.
I was gently warned about this possibility but I'm hoping with new compition coming on line like the Brewie as one example that PicoBrew will want to protect its market share in the larger more flexible machine category.

 

[Thorrak]

While awaiting my Zymatic I started doing some searches in the Pico Brew forum and it does seem that there are a lot of issues/troubleshooting that go unanswered. I make really hoppy beers and there were several threads addressing how to make really hoppy beers. Many of the threads just die out with someone saying, I'm gonna try this or that and report back, but they never report back. It seems like it's very difficult to get definitive answers for many things. This concerns me a little.

PicoBrew's email support is fantastic, and is generally extremely responsive. Their forum support admittedly leaves a bit to be desired, but I think that's mostly because the forum there (in my opinion) doesn't have much of a community built yet. It's easy to forget to report back a month and a half later when the beer you brewed is finally carbonated and ready to serve.

What I can tell you is that if you're willing to be creative and play with the advanced recipe editor, you could probably juice the hop additions way up -- but I'm still not sure you'd need to. I'd estimate you could fit probably 1-1.5 oz of hops in each hop chamber which means you'd be using 6 oz of hops for a 2.5 gallon batch of beer. That's... a lot of hops.

Also, after the warranty, let's say your pump, or the electronics break, do you have to ship the Z back to have it repaired? Shipping + Repair would be pretty costly I imagine.

It depends on what breaks. A lot of the parts in the Zymatic are off the shelf (stepper motors, SSRs, etc) and are relatively accessible/easy to repair. The electronics are custom, but if they had to be replaced would probably be the easiest part to swap so long as you got a replacement shipped from PicoBrew.

Honestly, the part I worry about the most is the Step Filter. As it stands, the step filter is patented (I think?) and is the part which receives the most wear-and-tear. If it cracks/breaks, you're not brewing anything, unfortunately. What I'd LOVE is for them to make an all stainless step filter. I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

 

[ShaLaH]

Thorrak,

Thanks for the feedback. I've been wanting a Z for quite a while, it wasn't until I actually ordered it that I began to get cold feet. A lot of people on the forums here and on pico brew have been complaining about a complete lack of feedback from moderators regarding software updates lately as well as a lack of presence on the forums. Any idea why that is?

I was holding out for the Brewie - a more robust machine, 5 gallon batches, internal wort chiller, sparging, more features, for the same price as a Zymatic - but I really don't like how the Brewie team continually leave their backers in the dark in regards to technical details, shipping dates, etc. You can't seem to get a straight answer from them. I've heard great things about the PB support and is ultimately the major reason I chose to buy the Zymatic. But it seems like the updates are slow to come and their forum presence is waning. I just hope I'm not throwing money into a sinking ship.

You would think that with the Brewie and with semi-automated systems like Grainfather, Brew Boss, etc, out there that PB would engage their current user base to improve their product and attract more followers.

 

[Brewinator]

I got a Zymatic in January and never used it - didn't have time due to some familial catastrophes, and I actually stopped drinking altogether. The protective tape is still on it. I live in SoCal if anyone wants to make an offer on it.

 

[jmadway]

I've had my Zymatic for about a year and a half now. I've brewed over 60 batches and overall have loved it. It really makes consistently great wort. That is without question.

As people have mentioned, customer support is incredible. A pump broke in mine after it was out of warranty. They replaced my unit for free.

Is the lack of software updates concerning? Yes, but I do believe that the long awaited update is coming at some point soon. And until then, I'm pretty damn happy with the machine as is.

 

[waruaki]

Our zymatic arrived Friday and we brewed today with it. Very easy to set up and create an account on the Pico Brew website. No issues as well connecting wirelessly to our router. We performed two rinses before brewing, then brewed the included pale ale. Instructions were adequate and made sense and we were all impressed with how tight the zymatic maintained temperature. Cleanup took a half hour including the circulation and two rinses we did after the recipe was completed. No excessive foaming or leaks during the brewing process.
After brewing so long with equipment that required constant attention and took well over an hour to clean. This process was a treat! The only small concern we had was when the unit lost internet connection for a couple minutes during the mash but it reconnected automatically and finished the recipe without any further issue.
I'm impressed and did I mention we hit our gravity dead on.
Looking forward to brewing one of my recipes next weekend

 

[ShaLaH]

Our zymatic arrived Friday and we brewed today with it. Very easy to set up and create an account on the Pico Brew website. No issues as well connecting wirelessly to our router. We performed two rinses before brewing, then brewed the included pale ale. Instructions were adequate and made sense and we were all impressed with how tight the zymatic maintained temperature. Cleanup took a half hour including the circulation and two rinses we did after the recipe was completed. No excessive foaming or leaks during the brewing process.
After brewing so long with equipment that required constant attention and took well over an hour to clean. This process was a treat! The only small concern we had was when the unit lost internet connection for a couple minutes during the mash but it reconnected automatically and finished the recipe without any further issue.
I'm impressed and did I mention we hit our gravity dead on.
Looking forward to brewing one of my recipes next weekend

That's great news! I received mine on Friday and hope to brew with it this week. I really hope that brewing in "offline" mode will be an option in the future.:rockin:

 

[Baja_Brewer]

Most honest answer from the Picobrew crew that I've seen in a while came from Annie today in a thread calling them out on the internal forum (emphasis mine):

Annie wrote:

wrote:

I'm worried that the Zymatic has high customer service costs and a relatively small group of users. It seems that at some point they are going to walk away from the Z and focus on the mass market Pico.
If they would just fix the advanced editor bug I would be happy. I'm not optimistic that any updates are coming but I hope Im wrong,
I've had nothing but great experiences with Kevin and Doug. The customer service really is top notch.
I wonder if the Zymatic is necessary because it is used to develope Pico Paks? That alone might insure that the Z stays in the product line.

The Zymatic is not going away. Nor is KegSmarts or Pico. I would imagine like all products it sees an overhal but that's not coming in the next few months.

So since "soon" has never meant soon, I wouldn't count on this. Prove me wrong, Picobrew.

Remember, if you're on the fence about buying one, and this very real issue of lack of future software development is preventing you - let them know! FFS - they haven't even fixed the advanced recipe editor overwriting bug yet - since day 1, if you edit a recipe that had custom advance settings (even something as simple as changing the mash in/mash/mash out temps) - the custom settings are GONE. It may not sound like a big deal, but it is insanely frustrating.

 

[waruaki]

Baja,

What is the (advanced recipe editor overwriting bug) As a new owner I have been into the advanced editor with a recipe but not comfortable enough yet to make changes with it?

 

[Denny]

If anyone is getting ready to order a Zymatic, you can get $200 off by entering the code ZYMDENNY at checkout. Good through 12/31/16

 

[Baja_Brewer]

Baja,

What is the (advanced recipe editor overwriting bug) As a new owner I have been into the advanced editor with a recipe but not comfortable enough yet to make changes with it?

Basically any customization you do in the advanced editor is erased if you make changes the non-advanced editor.

Examples:
-you set custom step mash temperatures in the advanced editor. Then you go to brew and you realize you have to sub a hop, or want to updated the recipe crafter assumed alpha acid percentages. You edit your recipe, and the advanced mash temps restore to default.
-you want to do a early hop addition by having your wort pass through the first hop cage as it heats to boil, so you change that in the advanced editor, make any other edits and its gone.

It may not sound like a big deal, but when you're managing a bunch of recipes and you're expecting repeatability, you could miss something and end up with a different profile. Sort of takes away from the full control aspect when things are constantly resetting to defaults...

This has been a known issue since day 1 that they have acknowledged but failed to address.

 

[Baja_Brewer]

If anyone is getting ready to order a Zymatic, you can get $200 off by entering the code ZYMDENNY at checkout. Good through 12/31/16

Denny, I know who you are in the brewing community but could I get a little clarity: do you work for PicoBrew?

 

[BurntOrngeLonghorn84]

PicoBrew supports his podcast experimental brewing.

 

[Denny]

Denny, I know who you are in the brewing community but could I get a little clarity: do you work for PicoBrew?

Absolutely not. They are a podcast sponsor, along with many other companies. I simply love their products and am a very satisfied user.

 

[Denny]

PicoBrew supports his podcast experimental brewing.

Yes, they are one of many.

 

[aangel]

Basically any customization you do in the advanced editor is erased if you make changes the non-advanced editor.

Examples:
-you set custom step mash temperatures in the advanced editor. Then you go to brew and you realize you have to sub a hop, or want to updated the recipe crafter assumed alpha acid percentages. You edit your recipe, and the advanced mash temps restore to default.
-you want to do a early hop addition by having your wort pass through the first hop cage as it heats to boil, so you change that in the advanced editor, make any other edits and its gone.

It may not sound like a big deal, but when you're managing a bunch of recipes and you're expecting repeatability, you could miss something and end up with a different profile. Sort of takes away from the full control aspect when things are constantly resetting to defaults...

This has been a known issue since day 1 that they have acknowledged but failed to address.

Does this mean as long as I do any further edits in the advanced tool, I'll be fine?

 

[Thorrak]

Does this mean as long as I do any further edits in the advanced tool, I'll be fine?

Yep.

There's really no reason you need to use the non-advanced editor unless you like it. You could theoretically use BeerSmith (or an alternative) and just put in the brew cycle to the advanced editor.

 

[banjo-guy]

I'm the banjoguy being quoted in this thread. I want to be clear that I really love my Zymatic. The support staff is incredibly responsive and helpful. They have send out replacements for parts without any questions asked.
I recently had a problem with my Zymatic and they sent me a brand new one even though it was out of warranty. They also paid the shipping to and from NY.
I can't think of another company that would stand behind their products like Pico.
I will give them the benefit of doubt on software upgrades. It will come.

 

[Baja_Brewer]

I'm the banjoguy being quoted in this thread. I want to be clear that I really love my Zymatic. The support staff is incredibly responsive and helpful. They have send out replacements for parts without any questions asked.
I recently had a problem with my Zymatic and they sent me a brand new one even though it was out of warranty. They also paid the shipping to and from NY.
I can't think of another company that would stand behind their products like Pico.
I will give them the benefit of doubt on software upgrades. It will come.

I was really quoting Annie - your post was provided as context for her response.

 

[waruaki]

If anyone is getting ready to order a Zymatic, you can get $200 off by entering the code ZYMDENNY at checkout. Good through 12/31/16

Looks like that includes free shipping as well. Has to be one of the better deals I've seen this holiday season

 

[aangel]

Yep.

There's really no reason you need to use the non-advanced editor unless you like it. You could theoretically use BeerSmith (or an alternative) and just put in the brew cycle to the advanced editor.

That's likely what I'll be doing...unless picobrew's got water chemistry calculations baked into their software. 6 days to go until I get my hands on that Picobrew!!!

 

[Thorrak]

That's likely what I'll be doing...unless picobrew's got water chemistry calculations baked into their software. 6 days to go until I get my hands on that Picobrew!!!

They have some method of noting water additions, but to be fair - it sucks. You're limited to 2, and it is disconnected from any water chemistry calculation.

 

[aangel]

They have some method of noting water additions, but to be fair - it sucks. You're limited to 2, and it is disconnected from any water chemistry calculation.

Ahh, that's unfortunate but not surprising. I can hardly wait to get goin on this thing. I've got a long list of A-B test experiments to try

 

[aangel]

First picobrew day DONE!

It's an interesting machine. I quite like it. There's a glitch with my wifi - I have to reset the router before I turn it on each time. Otherwise, the zymatic is the answer to a maiden's prayer.

Santa was particularly good to me this year - a refractometer, pH meter, and carboy/keg washer were under the Christmas tree Gotta say, the keg washer's a godsend - no more disassembling or soaking my kegs!!!

 

[BurntOrngeLonghorn84]

no more disassembling or soaking my kegs!!!

If you're fermenting in the keg, I'd recommend disassembling and soaking. I enjoy fermenting in the corny, but hate cleaning them afterwards. The keg washer doesn't come close to getting them clean.

 

[aangel]

If you're fermenting in the keg, I'd recommend disassembling and soaking. I enjoy fermenting in the corny, but hate cleaning them afterwards. The keg washer doesn't come close to getting them clean.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[pagrider]

I second that. The keg washer is great but if you ferment make sure you dissemble the keg posts.

 

[chris0879]

Sorry if this has been answered. Is it possible to do a 5 gallon batch if you have a 10 gallon keg? I thought I saw a post that sad that but can't find it. Thinking of pulling the trigger with the Denny discount. Thanks in advance!

 

[jmark]

Well, you're limited to about a 9lb grain bill, but you could use DME to add the points to your 5 gallon brew.

 

[BurntOrngeLonghorn84]

Yep, you'd either have to add DME, or do two mashes with a pause to dump the grains and replace.

 

[cheesemonster]

I registered to say this as I have received good customer service from PicoBrew last week with my Zymatic. I bought my machine barely used from an original Kickstarter purchaser. So I had an early version of the step filter that cracked in the dishwasher. I emailed customer support offering to buy another step filter but they actually shipped one the next day to me for free despite being the second owner of an out of warranty Zymatic.

So yes it seems they have slowed on updates, and may be working on a second revision, but the support is still above and beyond anything I have had before, and the machine still makes great beer. It would be nice though that if PicoBrew ever decided not to support the machine, they would pledge to open source the code so I could fix it myself. The worry with things that need a connection to some remote API is what happens when that is discontinued? The Zymatic cannot work offline.