Pectin Enzyme after fermintaion

[HammeredDwarf]

Ive had this cider in the secondary carboy for 4 weeks now. Was out of Pectin Enzyme when I started the cider so its taking a while to clarify. There is no clarification at all yet and im wanting to bottle condition so I have the carboy back so I can use it for again @the end of the month. Has anyone tried adding pectin enzyme after fermintaion and how did it work. Would you suggest a different clarifier for after fermintaion? The cider is a oaked cherry cider that I started this cider 7 weeks ago.

 

[Yooper]

If it's a pectin haze, the pectic enzyme will do the trick. If the haze is do to something else, you'd want to use something else. For a yeast haze, gelatin would work for example. So it really depends on what is causing the haze.

You could try the pectic enzyme, and see if it works. Or you could go "big guns" and use KC finings which would clear just about anything.

 

[Scrumpy!]

I am struggling with a pectin haze or worse yet, a slug of pectin snot that has defied every fining agent that is commercially available. In my experience, once it forms, pectinase has absolutely no effect on it. In fact my current problem batch was macerated with pectinase for 48 hours prior to pressing yet I still could see there was pectin in solution by mixing 5 ml of must with 50 ml of methanol. Sure enough, when the ferment hit around 6% alcohol, the pectin haze clouded the whole carboy. Near the end of fermentation (6 months), it settled into a gooey cloud at the bottom of the carboy. I tried bentonite, more pectinase, isinglass, keiselsol, gelatin, chitosan, and clouds of obscene words all to no avail. I was trying for a dense sediment at the bottom and can't get there. BTW, KC finings are just keiselsol with a chitosan chaser (tried that too).

To be accurate, all of them worked to some degree but not as well as I hoped. My 5 gal carboy has a layer of cider that is so clear i can read a dollar bill through it. The problem is the haze is now a crud cloud that occupies the bottom gallon thus I will lose 20% of this batch. Getting a dense, compact sediment is what I wanted but could not attain by any method so far.

I will wait another month to see if it compacts further. If not, I will rack off the clear layer and try filtering the last gallon.

 

[bernardsmith]

Hmmm.. Are you pressing your own apples? Might you be including too many apple seeds? Are you heating the apple juice and so setting the pectins. I have never had problems with pectic haze from the orchards I buy my apple juice but you may not be using enough pectic enzyme for the volume of juice in your batch

 

[HammeredDwarf]

Well I now for a fact I didn't put enough pectic enzyme in it as I put none. I was asking about adding it after fermintaion as that is where I'm at now.

 

[HammeredDwarf]

If it's a pectin haze, the pectic enzyme will do the trick. If the haze is do to something else, you'd want to use something else. For a yeast haze, gelatin would work for example. So it really depends on what is causing the haze.

You could try the pectic enzyme, and see if it works. Or you could go "big guns" and use KC finings which would clear just about anything.

I've not used KC finings. From what ive been reading it looks like that might strip the red from the cherry out of the cider. Might try it anyway.

 

[Scrumpy!]

Bernard, thanks for your thoughts on the origin of my pectin haze. I do press my own apples, around half a ton each season. I would be interested to know a practical means of removing the seeds.

From what I can find on the subject, there does not seem to be anything written on the the specific pectin content of the seeds. Can you post something on the subject?

I use a variety of pectinase sold by Cidersupply.com that is specifically used by the cider industry, not the generic variety sold by my local brewery supply store. I added the manufacturer's recommend dose. I rely on natural fermentation so heating the must would be counter productive.

After doing a lengthy web search, I see references to the difficulty of removing a pectic haze. After fermentation is complete and the alcohol content is high, any residual pectin comes out of solution and there does not appear to be a way of reversing the reaction. Adding another significant amount of pectinase to a sample of my cider had no visible impact even three weeks later.

I ultimately used bentonite on the batch and it cleared the upper 2/3 of the carboy exceptionally well but is taking weeks to form a compact sediment at the bottom. I hope to be able to salvage at least 4 gallons in another month or so.

 

[Maylar]

Pectin is in the cells of the fruit, not the seeds. I've read that the pumice left over from pressing apples is one of the commercial sources for extracting pectin. I used to add pectic enzyme at the same time as pitching yeast in my ciders, but lately I've been adding it 12-14 hrs before pitching and racking the clear cider to another fermentor then pitching. It's suprising how much pectin "mud" you get.

Only once did I add the enzyme post ferment, and that was when I racked to secondary. It took a lot longer to work, but ultimately did clear up.