Oxygen tank longevity

[Morrey]

I use an oxygenation stone kit I bought from Northern Brewer. I read from various sources a standard red (disposable) Bernzomatic O2 tank from Lowes would last quite some time with reasonable O2 flow.

I have gone thru several tanks and figure I am oxygenating around 6 batches of wort (5.5G batches) out of a tank. I crack the valve no more than half throttle so I would say my flow rate is medium-low at the most. Then I unscrew the regulator when not in use so no leaks should occur. I even sprayed star san on the valve, tank connections and hose connections to make sure no leaks occurred elsewhere. No leaks.

Am I getting the average number of uses out of this tank that others using this setup are getting? I expected to get a couple of dozen batches oxygenated per tank as I read I may potentially get. I'm nowhere close to that.

 

[LarMoeCur]

6 (5 gallon) batches is way low. I'm getting in the neighborhood of 8-10 (10 gallon) batches per bottle. I bought a cheap ($10) ebay flow meter (came on a slow boat from China). I run it at 1L per minute for 1 minute per 5 gallons.

I for sure know you are bubbling O2 right out of the wort, because I open the same regulator half way and then dial my flow meter way down to 1L. At half it will peg the meter so it's well over 1.5L/M Sometimes I even have to close the regulator some to get the flow I want.

 

[brick_haus]

I was going through red bottles in about three 15 gallon batches. I kept my eye on CL until I found a couple of full medical o2 bottles with a flow meter. I got the two bottles and the flow meter on a wheel cart for $20. I have been using the first bottle for over a year and over 150 g of beer and still have plenty of o2 left, and a second full bottle.
For a 15g batch, I flow 3lpm for 4 minutes. Great fermentations!

 

[ba-brewer]

Before getting a flow regulator I was getting about 6 5gal batches from a small tank. I have not done enough batches with the regulator to know how many I can get now.

I did try to calibrate the basic valve by measuring the amount of time it took to displace a quart of water with the stone attached. Not sure how well that held up as the take was depleted.

When set to 1L I had quite a bit of foam, so I dialed down to .5L and give it 2min.

 

[Morrey]

Good information! I was not aware that a flow meter was available for a setup like mine. I'll do a Google search and look.

 

[JonM]

You should open the valve just enough so that you see little tiny bubbles just disturbing the surface. Any more than that and the O2 is just flying off into the air.

I bought a bottle years ago and it's still going strong. I have lost count of how many batches I have gotten out of it, but it's a LOT. Years, and I brew a lot.

ETA: And I mean the little Bernz-O-Matic tank.

 

[Maylar]

Those Bernzomatic oxygen tanks are only 1.4 oz. I don't have any kind of flow regulator and I only get a few uses out of one. Not even sure it's worth the $20 expense - I've never noticed much difference between using pure O2 and just whipping the must with a stirrer. I know it's impossible to reach the recommended ppm of O2 without pure oxygen, but for what I ferment I don't see a huge difference.

 

[Morrey]

You should open the valve just enough so that you see little tiny bubbles just disturbing the surface. Any more than that and the O2 is just flying off into the air.

I bought a bottle years ago and it's still going strong. I have lost count of how many batches I have gotten out of it, but it's a LOT. Years, and I brew a lot.

ETA: And I mean the little Bernz-O-Matic tank.

I am probably well over oxygenating my wort and wasting most O2. I see the O2 flow meters on eBay and they are generally around $10.

 

[LarMoeCur]

I don't see a huge difference.

Key word is difference! Huge is matter of perspective. That what she said!
But, you did see a difference.

Numbers don't lie. You can shake or stir for 30 minutes to an hour. You will not get the PPM of O2 as you will with 30 seconds to a minute of pure O2. With a cheap pump you can get close but it still takes way more time. 10 bucks a can at Home Depot about a dollar a batch of beer for me. Healthy yeast, no stuck fermentation, better taste, better attenuation, saves time and time = money. Worth every penny to me. It only get harder to get the right O2 levels the higher the OG gets. Get stuck fermentation on a Barely Wine the cost of that batch alone would have covered your O2 for the entire year.

 

[Maylar]

Get stuck fermentation on a Barely Wine the cost of that batch alone would have covered your O2 for the entire year.

Point taken. Which is why I use O2 even if it seems like overkill. Besides, I like the bubbles...

 

[IslandLizard]

Remove the "regulator" from the bottle immediately after use. They leak very slowly, but steadily.

A very slow stream is needed, and use a 0.5 micron SS stone to create many small bubbles that dissolve easier. Any bubbles that make it to the surface are wasted, they did not get dissolved.

I run 0.5 liter per minute for 2 minutes. Move the wand, I use a spare keg dip tube, slowly around the bottom during this time.

 

[LarMoeCur]

Point taken. Which is why I use O2 even if it seems like overkill. Besides, I like the bubbles...

Overkill are the brewers that give multiple doses of O2. I do one blast right before pitching. Some Overkillers come back 4-8 hours later and give it another blast before fermentation starts.

 

[JonM]

Well, if you're doing a 1.100 RIS or something, that's necessary. Not for average gravity beers.

 

[Maylar]

The mead guys aerate before pitching yeast and again 24 hrs later, after the lag phase. But as Jon said, that's with high gravity ferments.

 

[Nate R]

Old thread here, but i have Spike 5 micron stone for my cf5. I cannot see the bubbles. Just got a food grade oxygen tank and regulator. For the syone to.carbonate qith c02, i know it takes about 4-5 psi pressure to get thru.
Anyone have a suggestion for an average 1.060 avg gravity beer to oxygenate?
How many Liters and how long?
Thanks all

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I use a .5 micron air stone on an SS wand (Williams Brewing) and while stirring rather vigorously I run .5 lpm for four minutes. This was inspired by Chris White's comments in Yeast where he settled on 1 lpm for two minutes to hit ~ 12 ppm O2 saturation in a five gallon batch.

I'm running half the rate for twice the duration...

Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

.5 micron stone on an acrylic tube/wand. I've gone to 4 minutes at 1/4 l/m for a 5 gallon batch in a bucket. Very little surface rippling that way, which hopefully means more O2 gets dissolved on its way up.

 

[ba-brewer]

I shoot for 8 - 10 ppm based on the 1L/min for 1min mentioned in the yeast book does about as well as 14 ppm so I do 8min at .12L/min with a .5 micron while gently stirring. I do get a little foam on the top but don't really worry too much about it as I figure the yeast that is riding the bubbles are probably happy to be there.

 

[Nate R]

Thanks all.
Does anyone have any altertnate ideas for a 5 micron stone? I am assuming it is about the same but not sure.

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks all.
Does anyone have any altertnate ideas for a 5 micron stone? I am assuming it is about the same but not sure.

You sure it's 5 micron, not 0.5?
5 micron would be pretty coarse, like an aquarium stone perhaps?
The smaller the pores, the smaller and more plentiful the bubbles.

Air (aquarium pump) is typically bubbled through 2 micron stones, the 0.5 being too restrictive.

 

[Nate R]

You sure it's 5 micron, not 0.5?
5 micron would be pretty coarse, like an aquarium stone perhaps?
The smaller the pores, the smaller and more plentiful the bubbles.

Air (aquarium pump) is typically bubbled through 2 micron stones, the 0.5 being too restrictive.

Yes. See spike:

"Carb Stone Micron Size
Created by: John Degroote
Modified on: Thu, 19 Jul, 2018 at 6:26 PM
You'll see many carb stones on the market listed as .5 micron, 2 micron, 5 micron, etc. When our engineers were developing our carb stone we sampled many different vendors and then inspected those carb stones using an electron microscope. The results were very surprising. In our testing we were unable to find an actual .5 or 2 micron stone. Although all the stones we tested were listed at .5-5 micron they actually ranged from 5-200 micron. With that said we are extremely skeptical of any stone out there that lists .5 micron and would ask for test data to prove so. Attached are some of the SEM images from our testing showing the wide range of pore sizes. We can confidently say that our carb stone is 5 micron because, like all of our products, we test the crap out of them before bringing to market!"

‐‐-------------
Also this on psi. I.e. i set my c02 tank to 10 psi, my conical gauge will measure about 6 psi. I have checked this.
I wonder if this means i need more psi/ higher setting coning from oxygen tank? I was going thru red disposable bottles pretty fast.
"Wetting pressure refers to the amount of pressure it takes before gas can move through a gas stone. This is important because when you set your regulator to a given PSI for carbonation, you must add this pressure to the desired pressure you want to achieve in your conical."

"Our stone's wetting pressure is ~4 PSI"

Edit- shame on me for not listing the source!!!

https://spikebrewing.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/35000053612-carb-stone-micron-size

 

[IslandLizard]

Always something new to be learned! ^
Who'd have thunk that?

 

[Nate R]

Always something new to be learned! ^
Who'd have thunk that?

Lol... right?!?! Not trying to be a know it all. Just crazy they went right to 5 micron. I wonder if the pressure required is why my red disposable oxygen tanks last for maybe 2 batches?
I just splurged and got a food grade oxygen from airgas... and a regulator from them... i think i can put this is my will for the next 1000 years. But forget about thoose dang tanks. I am not close to Captain Planet but what a waste.

 

[Robert65]

I use the red Bernzomatic bottles, run 0.2 L/min for 1-2 minutes (depending on gravity) through a 2 micron stone for ~23L/6 gal, fermentation takes off like a rocket and the bottles last forever it seems. I find it difficult to believe that all the stones out there are bogus. I've used both 0.5 micron and 2 micron. The difference is night and day. It is so much harder to get liquid flow through the 0.5 micron that cleaning and sanitizing is difficult. I prefer the 2 micron for this reason; you just need to dial back the O2 flow rate to get good diffusion.

 

[MaxStout]

Another brewing "conventional wisdom" debunked. Thanks for posting that, @Nate R.

Might have to pick up a Spike stone. The so-called 2 micron stones I use send up a lot of bubbles to the surface, no matter how I adjust the O2. Maybe mine are on the 200 micron end of that range.

 

[Nate R]

Another brewing "conventional wisdom" debunked. Thanks for posting that, @Nate R.

Might have to pick up a Spike stone. The so-called 2 micron stones I use send up a lot of bubbles to the surface, no matter how I adjust the O2. Maybe mine are on the 200 micron end of that range.

Whoa whoa whoa... i am not in the de-bunking bidness!!! Lol. Rather i am in the "what can i do to make better beer" bidness... which in the last year i have learned means... spend more money!!!

 

[Deadalus]

Got a full medical tank. I need it to last about 3.5 times as long as the red one to break even. I don't think I'll be able to sit it on bottom shelf clamped to the brew table leg anymore.

 

[Nate R]

Got a full medical tank. I need it to last about 3.5 times as long as the red one to break even. I don't think I'll be able to sit it on bottom shelf clamped to the brew table leg anymore.View attachment 668000

I think you will have about 3,500 red tanks in there!
One word of caution i was given by the gas guys (good name for a comedy troupe?):
Oxygen IS flammable, and the oxygen tanks tend to "shoot their tops off" when dropped on them.
I keep mine in the detached garage when not in use. But it's loke 25% of your weight. You might want to keep it strapped down safe.
Best investment you can make imo!

 

[Deadalus]

I think you will have about 3,500 red tanks in there!
One word of caution i was given by the gas guys (good name for a comedy troupe?):
Oxygen IS flammable, and the oxygen tanks tend to "shoot their tops off" when dropped on them.
I keep mine in the detached garage when not in use. But it's loke 25% of your weight. You might want to keep it strapped down safe.
Best investment you can make imo!

Good advice, it came with sort of a Christmas tree base which I had taken off to transport but I was looking at cylinder mounts this morning. I plan on strapping to the wall to the right of the garage door. (It's there now). I do have an e-Herms setup, no open flame. I brew right outside the garage there and that right wall will be where I will brew in the future once I get my exhaust setup and ceiling drywall put in.

 

[Nate R]

Good advice, it came with sort of a Christmas tree base which I had taken off to transport but I was looking at cylinder mounts this morning. I plan on strapping to the wall to the right of the garage door. (It's there now). I do have an e-Herms setup, no open flame. I brew right outside the garage there and that right wall will be where I will brew in the future once I get my exhaust setup and ceiling drywall put in.

You can probably will that thing to your great great grandkids if its only used for brewing!
I got like a 15-20# (but steel, not aluminum) and hate lugging it back and forth- but it is just light enough to not want to spend $ on a cart.

Side note- anubody ever use Imperial Juice yeast? They call for 2x the oxygen. So happy i got a real tank!