Oxydation

[Jamie02173]

I have started brewing two beers and made the mistake of adding my worth into a pair of fermentation buckets with no taps. So my only option is to syphon from the top of the bucket. I am syphoning two 23 litre worths into two 18 litre corny kegs. I have watched many videos on pumping the worth through the keg but on this occasion i dont think its a possibility. So im going ro syphon direcrly into the lids, shut them, bleed them and hope for the best! Any suggestions on avoiding oxydation problems and should i avoid this procedure altogether?

 

[rhys333]

Siphoning from the top shouldn't been an issue for you. If you have an auto-syphon that allows you to pump it to get it started, then all the better. Just make sure to have the tubing go all the way to the bottom of your keg and avoid any splashing.

Regarding 23L and kegging, I like to put 18 or so in a keg and then bottle the remainder. Its great for sharing at gatherings and IMHO bottle conditioned beer has that extra something that makes it special.

 

[Jamie02173]

Siphoning from the top shouldn't been an issue for you. If you have an auto-syphon that allows you to pump it to get it started, then all the better. Just make sure to have the tubing go all the way to the bottom of your keg and avoid any splashing.

Regarding 23L and kegging, I like to put 18 or so in a keg and then bottle the remainder. Its great for sharing at gatherings and IMHO bottle conditioned beer has that extra something that makes it special.

That was the plan im trying to be careful with the bottling as i dont want an explosion! Im assuming if i get tye fermentation right, there should be no problem with the carbonation drops

 

[RM-MN]

ust make sure to have the tubing go all the way to the bottom of your keg and avoid any splashing.

Good point. The uptake of oxygen from the air is very slow until there is some agitation. Let the wort splash and you get oxidated beer.

 

[North_of_60]

I’ve made 32 five gallon beers in the last five years and siphoned every one of them without any ill effect. Like others said try not to let it splash. I see you’re going into a corny keg. Attach your siphon hose to a liquid quick connect on your keg and siphon it in that way.

I’ve made some serious blunders and never noticed any oxidation off taste. Once, I had 2 cases of bottles that didn’t carbonate so I poured them into bucket and siphoned them into a keg and forced carbonated it. It turned out fine. The keg only lasted a month, maybe had it lasted several months the oxidation would have become apparent.

 

[tracer bullet]

Agreed to the above. Oxidation is real but if you're using a bucket just aim for best practices and you will be fine. Smooth transfer and a few headspace purges will help a lot.

Hops seems to always lose its flavor over time, it's just a matter of how fast it happens. The better you do the longer it lasts.

 

[Jamie02173]

I am after purchasing this for the syphoning, it does not have a pump so not sure it will connect or flow to the corny keg by running through beer lines

 

[D.B.Moody]

I’ve made 32 five gallon beers in the last five years and siphoned every one of them without any ill effect.

That's my experience too. 272 batches over 24 years.

 

[slayer021175666]

I would add:
Fill your empty keg with CO2, first. CO2 is heavier than air so it will stay in the keg and not allow any air to get in even with the lid taken off. Now, run your siphon tube clear to the keg bottom through the open lid. As you fill the keg, the co2 will be pushed out the lid hole. Replace the lid and bring CO2 pressure to 10lb. Now, purge the headspace with 2 or 3 short blasts. This will make it where no O2 ever touches the wort. Check for lid leaks by spraying star san around the lid and watching for bubbles. If all is well, turn CO2 to conditioning pressure to force carb. There ya go.

 

[Jamie02173]

I would add:
Fill your empty keg with CO2, first. CO2 is heavier than air so it will stay in the keg and not allow any air to get in even with the lid taken off. Now, run your siphon tube clear to the keg bottom through the open lid. As you fill the keg, the co2 will be pushed out the lid hole. Replace the lid and bring CO2 pressure to 10lb. Now, purge the headspace with 2 or 3 short blasts. This will make it where no O2 never touches the wort. Check for lid leaks by spraying star san around the lid and watching for bubbles. If all is well, turn CO2 to conditioning pressure to force carb. There ya go.

Cool thanks.. thats the plan! I have both beer and lager fermenting 10 days so im thinking it might be time soon to add the worth to a keg.. any ideas should i keave the keg in ambient temperature for a few days before adding to the fridge? And what temp should i keep the kegs at in the fridge? One is american pale ale the other is lager

 

[slayer021175666]

People seem to like most beers at 36-40 degrees. Its a matter of preference. I like mine at 33-34. Refrigerate the keg immediately. No need to wait. Crank CO2 to 35lbs and leave it for 20 hours. Try a glass and if it seems a bit flat, leave it going another 4 hours and try another glass. It should be good by then but, if not, go another 2-4 hours. If you over-carb, just unhook the CO2 line and vent the keg. Now, shake up the keg a bit and purge (vent) again until it gets back down to your liking. 24 hours however, is the absolute longest I ever have to go. This is rule of thumb carbing. I don't much care to nerd out on sciency stuff but, they have actual CO2 volume calculators online if, you like the technical stuff. I just prefer to, "Keep it simple, stupid."

 

[tracer bullet]

I am after purchasing this for the syphoning, it does not have a pump so not sure it will connect or flow to the corny keg by running through beer lines

How about a spigot and a drill bit for it, instead?

 

[VikeMan]

Fill your empty keg with CO2, first. CO2 is heavier than air so it will stay in the keg and not allow any air to get in even with the lid taken off.

The CO2 won't stop O2 from getting in. It will initially slow it down a little, because some O2 molecules will randomly hit CO2 molecules, and some of those will bounced back out. But we're talking about gasses, not solids. The CO2 and the O2 will seek to be homogeneous between the keg and the atmosphere, as described by Fick's Laws.

 

[slayer021175666]

As the keg fills, the CO2 is pushed out. This also pushes away O2. You should begin filling the keg immediately to avoid any mixing of air and CO2. Anyway, its a method widely used and accepted and the people who do it this way hardly ever complain of oxydization. I'd be more worried about a good seal on my siphon hose to cane joint. If not sealed well, it will suck in air and definately induce a whopping amount of O2.

 

[VikeMan]

As the keg fills, the CO2 is pushed out. This also pushes away O2.

Unless you're doing several pressurize/release cycles at high PSI, there will still be lots of the original O2 left in the keg. It will be nicely mixed with the CO2 that was flowed in.

You should begin filling the keg immediately to avoid any mixing of air and CO2.

Yeah, if most of the O2 was removed via the aforementioned purge/release cycles (or another method, like filling with star san solution and then pushing out), filling the keg immediately will help to minimize the amount of O2 that enters the keg. But there will still be some mixing while it's open.

This video shows the phenomenon nicely:

 

[Jamie02173]

How about a spigot and a drill bit for it, instead?

Unfortunatly i made the mistake of brewing in buckets with no spigots and the worth is now 3/4 done, so syphoning seems the only method on this occasion, but will add spigots before my next brew!

 

[tracer bullet]

The CO2 won't stop O2 from getting in. It will initially slow it down a little, because some O2 molecules will randomly hit CO2 molecules, and some of those will bounced back out. But we're talking about gasses, not solids. The CO2 and the O2 will seek to be homogeneous between the keg and the atmosphere, as described by Fick's Laws.

Agreed, 100%. You aren't getting rid of O2 form the air, simply diluting it. If you dilute it again and again it gets to a point where most folks don't care, and it's cool. But it's there and yes it's still mixing in.

Unfortunatly i made the mistake of brewing in buckets with no spigots and the worth is now 3/4 done, so syphoning seems the only method on this occasion, but will add spigots before my next brew!

Right on, that's what I mean, for next time.

I didn't catch what you brewed. A stout and a NEPIA can be treated a little differently. If it's one beer, and something not hop dependent like a stout, maybe just pour the dang thing into the keg and do a series of purges, save buying a siphon if you won't use it again. Or do a trick with just hose and fill it with water to get a siphon going. Sanitization is always a thing to be mindful of but if you think you'll fry the keg in a week or two it may not be a big deal.