Over pitching wyeast 3068 Hefeweizen

[JosephN]

I made a 1.5 litter starter a few days ago with some previously harvested slurry. I don't have a microscope so I wasn't able to check the cell count, haha and even if I did I wouldn't know how to do that. Anyways I brewed a Hefeweizen yesterday with a OG of 1.046. When I pitched the starter I decanted and dumped about what I would consider 4 vials of yeast, which I'm sure some of that was old dead cells and a bit of trub from the slurry. I read today that over pitching this yeast can cause a void in banana flavor, which is what I was going for. I am currently fermenting at 64F.

My question: would slightly raising the temp up over the next few days help in getting the banana flavor or is there any solutions to help me get it?

If you need other info I'm happy to give it.

 

[JosephN]

No takers huh?

 

[sudbuddy]

Wyeast recommends slightly UNDER pitching 3068 to stress the yeast and make it throw off banana esters. I like to pitch it at a low-ish temp (~62*F) and allow it to rise on it's own into the mid to high 70's. That ensures that you get the full range of clove to banana esters and phenols. In your situation, I think raising the temp would definitely help.

How many gallons of wort? What was the OG? Did you wash the yeast or just scoop and pitch? How does it smell now?

 

[orangehero]

I like to pitch it at a low-ish temp (~62*F) and allow it to rise on it's own into the mid to high 70's. That ensures that you get the full range of clove to banana esters and phenols.

That's not how yeast metabolism in this case works. When people say lower temps bring out more clove and spice, this is due to the relative balance of esters to phenols. At higher temps the yeast make more of both phenols and esters. Obviously there's more to it than that, but it's not low temps make phenols and high temps make esters.

Another important variable is oxygen levels, and reducing how much oxygen you add (or don't add) to the wort can help boost ester production.

64°F is a little low to get the most flavor from this yeast. You could try raising the temp to 70-74°F (or even higher, but I've never tried it with this strain), but do it quickly as most of the flavor compounds are produced within the first 48-72 hours. Waiting to do it over the next few days would greatly reduce the impact.

 

[JosephN]

Well the OG was 1.046 after boil with a total of 5.7 gallons of wort. I put 5 gallons in a 6.5 gallon carboy and the extra .70 of a gallon in a 1 gallon carboy. I pitched the majority of the yeast into the 6.5 gallon and just put a dash in the 1 gallon. Let's just focus on the 5 gallons of wort for now.

I can't say if I washed it or not. I might have slightly washed it, meaning adding preboiled and cold water to the fermenter and then decanted, etc. I don't normally get too in depth with trying to wash out all the trub.

Right now it is giving off a pretty funky smell, like strong yeast mixed with cabbage. I would almost say it smells like eggs it it's not that bad. It really makes me think a really strong yeast smell. Also I looked up the cause of rotten egg smell in palmer's book how to brew and it said its from bad lager yeast or bacteria. I will have to say that my equipment was cleaner than most equipment I've seen commercial breweries use so I doubt it's bacteria.

Oxygen levels, well I ran my aquarium style air pump with filter for 20-25 mins and it had about a 2" foam head on it during pitching.

The krausen that has formed looks like a really healthy cream, which is just a really thick layer of fresh yeast, and I don't really have the thick brown stuff yet.

I just now turned off my cooler and I'm gonna let it rise on its own to at least 70F. I might let it go to 72F.

Any thought or suggestions?

 

[Nate]

I love this yeast and have been doing a lot with it lately. The imperial Hefe we made had HUGE banana esters and has become my favorite beer ever. Our routine has been to use a single smack pack to make a 2L starter pitched into a 10 gallon batch and fermented at 72 F. Fermentations have kicked off in the 4 to 5 hour range and are borderline violent for 24 hours. We have about 40% head space in our fermenter and it hasn't been enough... a ton of krausen ends up in the blow off tube container. We also use pure O2 and yeast nutrient.

Wyeast mentions this yeast may throw some sulfur but we haven't seen that... sounds like you are seeing it. I'm guessing the sulfur component might depend somewhat on the grain bill. Either way, I wouldn't worry about it yet as it can be an expected characteristic. The 72 F you mentioned should be fine. I'd let it ride at this point...

 

[JosephN]

I love this yeast and have been doing a lot with it lately. The imperial Hefe we made had HUGE banana esters and has become my favorite beer ever. Our routine has been to use a single smack pack to make a 2L starter pitched into a 10 gallon batch and fermented at 72 F. Fermentations have kicked off in the 4 to 5 hour range and are borderline violent for 24 hours. We have about 40% head space in our fermenter and it hasn't been enough... a ton of krausen ends up in the blow off tube container. We also use pure O2 and yeast nutrient.

Wyeast mentions this yeast may throw some sulfur but we haven't seen that... sounds like you are seeing it. I'm guessing the sulfur component might depend somewhat on the grain bill. Either way, I wouldn't worry about it yet as it can be an expected characteristic. The 72 F you mentioned should be fine. I'd let it ride at this point...

What OG are you all pitching at? My grain bill is 70% German wheat and 30% German Pilsner. I wonder if all the wheat is part of why it smells the way it does, and why it's not forming a huge krausen, lots of protein). I totally spaced and forgot to use some yeast nutrients so that in itself might strain the yeast enough and cause it to take a bit longer to really kick into gear, if it ever will. I am not sure though it's just a though. It is fermenting though and looks healthy, just smells rough. I will say that the 1.5 litter starter that I made didn't have any nutrients added and I had a thick krausen took up the remainder of the 2000ml flask, which dropped out super quick. It might have been at high krausen for 6-8hrs total, and then again the starter was made with extra light DME. why what is the worst that can happen, dump it if it's horrible? That just gives me a reason to try again!!! [emoji106]🏻[emoji106]🏻[emoji481]

 

[Nate]

We've done both medium and high gravity beers with 50/50 wheat and pilsner and they've all blown krausen out the top of the fermenter with the exception of our last batch. Last batch we basically did a lazy experiment... re-pitched about a pint of slurry with fresh wort back into a dirty/just drained fermenter. I have the feeling we really under pitched... it took about 10 to 12 hours to start and, for the first time ever, didn't blow krausen out the top. It's chugging along though fairly vigorously and it will be interesting to see where it ends up (and how much the esters are affected).

Side note, we tried a stir plate (once) with this yeast on a 2L starter and it blew ridiculous amounts of krausen out the top of the flask... made a huge mess for such a small size. Assuming the stir plate version had a lot more yeast, we saw virtually no difference in the fermentation or banana esters.

This is a fun yeast... good luck with your batch!

 

[JosephN]

At this point I'm just using this as an experiment. The if it turns out good then great but if not I'll be okay with it. I have more than enough beer to keep me stocked up for the next 6 months, even with parties.

 

[JosephN]

Just to update you all. So far I have upped the temp to 72, which with my current set up the temp ranges from 71-73F. The creamy krausen is falling into the wort/beer, yeast is shooting to the top (what I call yeast fireworks in the liquid), and the stanly smell has faded to almost nothing. I think it will be fine it just might not have the flavors that I'm looking for. Either way it seems like the stanky rotten smell is harmless.