Over carbonation causing color change?

[tsholl]

Hey team,

I opened my first BIAB (I've done >10 extract brews) today which I bottled in swing-top bottles three weeks ago. It is a New England/Hazy IPA. I got six pints out of a one gallon BIAB setup. I was really puzzled to find that two pints, bottled from the same gallon, had completely different colors.

Beer 1

• Pictured right
• Great orange/NEIPA color
• Good carbonation, not overly carbonated
• Signs of gas escape from swing-top bottle, I noticed residue around the seal, it looked like gas escaped through the swing-top bottle seal when it was bottle conditioning.
• Tastes good!

Beer 2

• Pictured left
• Gross light brown color
• Extremely carbonated, swing top blew off like a champagne bottle when I opened it, very frothy head
• No signs of gas escape from swing-top bottle
• Still tastes good!

My hypothesis is that the CO2 escaping from beer 1 actually helped in that it led to a reasonable level of carbonation. Beer 2 contained all of that carbonation, and the high level of CO2 led to a color change in the beer.

Is this a reasonable hypothesis? Has anyone heard of over carbonation causing color changes? I realized when bottling this beer that I didn't had the 5 oz of priming sugar I usually receive with 5 gallon extract kits so I had to improvise with confectionery sugar (we happened to be out of regular sugar) and I'm afraid I added too much.

 

[Yooper]

No, carbonation doesn't cause color change. Oxidation is the culprit for darkening beer color.

 

[tsholl]

No, carbonation doesn't cause color change. Oxidation is the culprit for darkening beer color.

OK thanks @Yooper, yes after Googling "oxidation color beer"I found this blog which describes exactly what I am seeing.
http://scottjanish.com/headspace-hazy-ipa-oxidation/

The blog however mentions how one ten gallon batch was oxidized while another batch was not. Any idea why one bottle was oxidized when another wasn't? I'm generally pretty good about filling the bottles to the very top (before the bottle filling attachment is removed anyways).

 

[Brew_Dude41]

Warning warning!!! Danger danger!!!

 

[Dgallo]

They are most likely all going to oxidize on you. Don’t want to be negative but I don’t want you to get your hopes up either. Research causes on oxidation on hoppy beer. Learn the practices to limit o2 pick up. Otherwise this will happen every time you brew a heavily hopped beer. If you’re in the mood to read 200+ pages. This thread will help you a lot when brewiNG NEIPAS. lots of great info and experience from guys who brew these successes constantly. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/

 

[JohnSand]

It could also be a bottle infection. An infection can overcarb, change color and flavor. But not all of the flavor changes are dramatic. Whatever the cause, I'm glad you enjoyed the beer. If it doesn't happen again don't worry about it.

 

[tsholl]

Thanks all, I should also note this is my first time using the swing top bottles, so my first time not using oxygen absorbing bottle caps. For my next attempt at a NEIPA I am going back to regular bottles with oxygen absorbing caps and am going to use my sodastream to purge them with CO2 both before filling and after filling (headspace).

 

[Dgallo]

Thanks all, I should also note this is my first time using the swing top bottles, so my first time not using oxygen absorbing bottle caps. For my next attempt at a NEIPA I am going back to regular bottles with oxygen absorbing caps and am going to use my sodastream to purge them with CO2 both before filling and after filling (headspace).

That will certainly help but you have to take preventative measures of eliminating O2 contact right after fermentation slows down. Secondaries FV are a no no. Then you really have to pay close attention to your transfers if you don’t have a closed transferring set up. Literally this style is so sensitive to o2 it may be fine for 2 weeks and then all of a sudden you’ll taste stale hops/cardboard flavors and the color will change. Good luck

 

[mongoose33]

It could also be a bottle infection. An infection can overcarb, change color and flavor. But not all of the flavor changes are dramatic. Whatever the cause, I'm glad you enjoyed the beer. If it doesn't happen again don't worry about it.

A friend of mine recently brewed a Boddington's clone. He bottle conditions. He passed on a bottle to a buddy so we could see how it was.

Unbelievably bad. Clearly infected, as there was a sharp taste and distinct aftertaste. It was a bomber bottle, we didn't even come close to finishing. Dumper.

That put us in the position of having to tell him the bad news. He was shocked. He brought over a couple more bottles last week, and they were fine. Very good, in fact.

That one bottle must have not been completely cleaned. The rest were fine.

That type of thing seems unlikely in OP's case, given he notes in the post above it was his first time using the swing-top bottles, but it certainly is possible.

 

[Vale71]

The biggest issue with bottle priming is headspace oxygen. Since the beer is not fully carbed unliked when counterpressure filling you cannot purge the headspace by making the beer foam all the way up to the mouth, therefore any O2 trapped in the headspace will never leave the bottle and can wreak havoc on your beer... unless you have a combination of excessive priming and a leaky swing-top that will let the excess CO2 purge the headspace of most of the O2 reducing oxydation.

 

[El Nino]

Thanks all, I should also note this is my first time using the swing top bottles, so my first time not using oxygen absorbing bottle caps. For my next attempt at a NEIPA I am going back to regular bottles with oxygen absorbing caps and am going to use my sodastream to purge them with CO2 both before filling and after filling (headspace).

I used to be skeptical of the effectiveness of o2 absorbing bottle caps, until I actually tried them. They definitely made a difference in my beer's flavor, been using them always ever since.

However, if there was an increase in carbonation to that extreme, it could be possible one bottle wasn't sanitized and picked up a little infection or wild yeast. But hell if it still tastes good then awesome lol.

 

[Dgallo]

His swing top bottles are most likely larger than the bottles he was previously bottling it. The smallest swing top bottles I’ve ever come across are 16.9 oz vs the 12 oz typical capping bottle.

There are many simple answers to overcarbing. 1) more priming sugar than needed. If the op put too much in and let’s say drank the first few bottles after a week the carbing up and the carb was where he wanted it but the yeast hasn’t yet consumed all the sugar a week or two later the beers would have now been over carb. 2) could be if they are 16.9 sing tops or even 32oz swing tops. Even though batch priming will have each bottle have proportionally the same amount of sugar, the swing top bottles have proportionally greater liquid volumes to the size of headspace vs. 12 oz bottle, which actually causes them to have a higher carb level than the 12oz bottle. 3) could be hop creep causing over attenuation in the bottle.

There is one thing for sure though. The color change is caused by oxidation

 

[tsholl]

His swing top bottles are most likely larger than the bottles he was previously bottling it. The smallest swing top bottles I’ve ever come across are 16.9 oz vs the 12 oz typical capping bottle.

There are many simple answers to overcarbing. 1) more priming sugar than needed. If the op put too much in and let’s say drank the first few bottles after a week the carbing up and the carb was where he wanted it but the yeast hasn’t yet consumed all the sugar a week or two later the beers would have now been over carb. 2) could be if they are 16.9 sing tops or even 32oz swing tops. Even though batch priming will have each bottle have proportionally the same amount of sugar, the swing top bottles have proportionally greater liquid volumes to the size of headspace vs. 12 oz bottle, which actually causes them to have a higher carb level than the 12oz bottle. 3) could be hop creep causing over attenuation in the bottle.

There is one thing for sure though. The color change is caused by oxidation

Yep, 16.9 oz swing tops. Agree on oxidation, I am pretty sure it wasn't infection based on the taste. So far 3/4 of the bottles are badly oxidized. Two remain to be opened and the one turned out great which is puzzling.

 

[Dgallo]

Yep, 16.9 oz swing tops. Agree on oxidation, I am pretty sure it wasn't infection based on the taste. So far 3/4 of the bottles are badly oxidized. Two remain to be opened and the one turned out great which is puzzling.

Was the one that was great the first one you drank?

 

[tsholl]

Was the one that was great the first one you drank?

I actually opened the two in the picture at the exact same time, one for me one for my wife. They had been bottle conditioning for three weeks per the recipe.

 

[deadwolfbones]

Bottling NEIPAs is always a nightmare. You really need to keg for best results.

 

[tsholl]

Bottling NEIPAs is always a nightmare. You really need to keg for best results.

I definitely will some day! For now kegging is out of scope for my small NYC apartment.

 

[deadwolfbones]

I definitely will some day! For now kegging is out of scope for my small NYC apartment.

I feel you, man. I'd recommend brewing other styles until you have the capability, unless you want to deal with a lot of frustration. Plenty of good hazies in NYC to buy.

 

[balrog]

@tsholl , just fyi, I have had varying success with varying swing tops regarding seal, & seal strength.
I had some brand newly purchased swing tops that were horrible for holding pressure until I purchased new gaskets. I noticed the supplied gaskets were thin and inflexible compared to other swing tops with which I had no issues. Just wanted to address the "one more pressurized than other" comment, with my experiences.