Out building brewing

[Falafel]

Hello, new to the forum so I hope that I am posting to the right conversation.
Bought a new house with an out building. I want to continue brewing there. However, there are little options for getting water to the water for sanitation and clean up. I have a stainless steel sink from my old house and I am thinking about a 20 gal reservoir tank, a 7 gpm pump, and a small tank water heater.
Has anyone come across or lead me to posts of folks doing something similar to get ideas? Connecting to my well is not an option and connecting to a garden hose will not work during winter. Also trying avoid drilling directly to the building.

 

[mongoose33]

My first thought was that 20 gallons is not enough, but maybe.

I think the bigger issue is where/how you're going to drain it. Do you have easy access to the septic system from the outbuilding (assuming if you have a well you have septic)?

You might reconsider the garden-hose thing. Depending on how cold it gets, you might be able to allow the hose to run just a trickle, enough to keep it from freezing, then roll it up when you're done. This is what is done to keep pipes from freezing in a house that's lost heat, you let them drip to keep water moving in them.

You can control that not at the hose bib on the house, but at the end of the hose, using something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HHQAQY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

though there are many ways you can control water flow at the end of the hose.

Where do you live? What are winter temps like where you are?

 

[Falafel]

I do, but it is about 100 yards from the building and would have to be drilled ($$). It’s a newer building and the previous owner built to house their motorcycles. So if I need to,this summer I was thinking about drilling through the wall and connecting a drain to a basin outside. If anything, it will be grist and hops.
More importantly, I am looking for ideas for a pump and disconnects, etc to feed my sink and the counter flow. I think that you are on to something. Maybe a larger capacity tank (stainless steel?).

 

[grampamark]

A little more info would be helpful.

The fact that your outbuilding is 100 yards from your house suggests that you aren't in the heart of a city. Do you have a septic system? If so, how far from your building is your septic tank? Depending on the distance, it might not be too difficult, or costly, to connect an RV style drain to your septic system. If the building is close enough to the main waste line between your house and septic tank you might be able to connect your brewing wastewater directly to your wastewater drain. If the building is too far from the drainage plumbing you could buy a portable RV gray water holding tank on wheels. Connect that to your brewhouse drain. When done brewing, roll it to a place where you can drain the gray water into your wastewater system.

Google "plastic RV tanks" and you will find a very large selection of relatively inexpensive options for storing potable water and disposing of waste water. An RV fresh water tank and pump could also be an option for fresh water in your building. Add a small, point of use heater for hot water.

 

[mongoose33]

Questions:

1. Where do you live? Winter temps?

2. Building is heated? Year-round? Or just when you want to brew?

One other thought: a larger tank, one that might accommodate 2 or 3 brews, might allow you to fill that with a long garden hose then get by 2 or 3 times without having to fool with that.

Much of this depends on whether that building is heated or how cold it actually gets in the dead of winter.

 

[Dland]

If you rent or hire a chain trencher or mini excavator, you can install a year 'round yard hydrant type water spigot near your brew house. I would recommend the semi ridged black plastic for burying, and make sure you do not put any rocks on the line during back-fill process, as they can eventually cause leaks. How deep you need to go depends on frost line in your area.

This is what I use when brewing. I only have to run a short hose from hydrant to brew area, which I make sure is drained or put inside when finished brewing. A tank can freeze too, and the water limit is a pain. I would not worry about waste water, I dump all mine where I brew, and feed the spent grain to chickens.

You will have to drill a hole in foundation to get water out, which I know you want to avoid, but it is a one time chore. I'd throw some conduit in the trench too, well above the water line. That way you have multiple power options in future.

 

[TechFanMD]

You're going to need a long water hose that is suitable for potable water if you plan to use this water for brewing. Otherwise you'll just use that water for cleaning and have to buy bottles/jugs for brewing water. 100 Yards of hose suitable for potable water is going to be expensive and a lot of hose to deal with.

I don't know where you are (sorry if I missed it) but that tank may freeze. I have an in-ground pool and even that freezes over, and my rain barrel freezes pretty quickly.

A trench may be the best bet, even if not below the frost line and you'll just have to drain it for winter or after use (use a compressor to blow out the line.

For drainage.....I wouldn't worry about it that much if you have a spot that you can let the water out on the ground. You could even use a pump to move the wastewater (they make under-sink pumps) further from the shed. You could let it out on the ground or build a greywater handling pit. Its mostly water, and you can choose chemicals to use that won't turn your property into a hazardous waste site. I don't let a lot of my brewing chems into my septic anyway and spread them on-property.

With property this big, I assume you have a tractor of some kind. Maybe consider a trailered tank, fill near the house and drive the tank/trailer out and park it. Not sure what food-safe tanks are available for this.

 

[mongoose33]

You're going to need a long water hose that is suitable for potable water if you plan to use this water for brewing. Otherwise you'll just use that water for cleaning and have to buy bottles/jugs for brewing water. 100 Yards of hose suitable for potable water is going to be expensive and a lot of hose to deal with.

Actually, he can get 100' of potable water hose for under $50. There are some brands/configurations that cost much more, but it can be done for under $50.

Here's a 50' length of 5/8" hose:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002MBEA1K/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[mongoose33]

One last thought on this: if you think you'll be there for the long term, consider putting whatever money you expect to spend into a long-term solution.

That is, if you'll end up spending "X" amount on a tank, a pump, a POU water heater, etc. etc., ask yourself how much more it would cost to run a line from your house to the outbuilding.

Sometimes, for just a few hundred dollars more, you can have exactly what you want instead of what you compromised for. And later, suppose you do decide to trench in a line or whatever--you'll wish you had the money back you spent initially.

Yeah, I know--not everybody's made of money, so this is just a thought. Maybe you have some stuff you can sell to raise capital to do this? Or do a short-term job for something to get the money? Or?

Just a thought. Every time I upgrade something I tell myself that I wish I'd done this in the first place instead of wasting the money on the initial solution only to replace it with something better.

 

[tll77]

OP would need at least six of that hose to reach 100 yards.
At that point, I would just plumb it.

 

[tll77]

@mongoose33 nailed it.
Buy once, cry once.
It makes me sad when I think about all I've spent in the past for brewing work arounds and now we have a house and I have a dedicated space built out.

 

[TechFanMD]

Actually, he can get 100' of potable water hose for under $50. There are some brands/configurations that cost much more, but it can be done for under $50.

Here's a 50' length of 5/8" hose:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002MBEA1K/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I realize that.....but he is going 100 YARDS not 100'. He'll have at least $150 in hose......and I have one of that hose and 'never kink' .....well, never say never. I also have a 100' very nice supple non-kinking hose in my back yard and it is still unwieldy to deal withat 100'.....he'd need 3 of them (or 6 of what you linked).

 

[mongoose33]

I realize that.....but he is going 100 YARDS not 100'. He'll have at least $150 in hose......and I have one of that hose and 'never kink' .....well, never say never. I also have a 100' very nice supple non-kinking hose in my back yard and it is still unwieldy to deal withat 100'.....he'd need 3 of them (or 6 of what you linked).

OP would need at least six of that hose to reach 100 yards.
At that point, I would just plumb it.

You're right. Somehow I read that as 100 feet.

 

[specialkayme]

+1 for renting a trencher and putting a permanent line down.

I think you can get a trencher from Home Depot around me for like $100 a day. Do plenty of planning (know where your septic, well and power lines run), trench the line, install the line yourself, and call a plumber to finish it up if you want to (or do it yourself).

I don't think it'll cost much more than getting a good tank with a pump. And it's permanent.

Of course, I don't know where you live and how far down you'll have to go to get below frost line, or what you'll have to dig up along that 100 yard stretch (100 yards of trees and roots isn't a fun deal). But assuming the power made it out to the shed, you should be able to do the water too.

 

[grampamark]

I hope the OP comes back to fill in a few blanks. We're assuming he has electric service, though he didn't specify. We also don't know if he has an 8X12 shed or a 30X40 workshop.

In 1980 we built a large machinery storage/repair shop building on our farm. It happens to be 100 yards from the house. We rented a mini excavator and ran water and electricity to the building and put in a separate, small septic system for a bathroom and an RV hookup beside the building. We're along the Canadian border in northern MT and have to put water lines 8’ deep to avoid freezing. We ended up with about 2K 1980 dollars in that project, doing it ourselves. One would have to at least triple that today. If he's located in a jurisdiction that takes regulatory compliance seriously, maybe a lot more than that.

The OP would have to have some serious brewing goals to make running permanent utilities to his building worthwhile unless the building could have other uses besides brewing.

 

[specialkayme]

The OP would have to have some serious brewing goals to make running permanent utilities to his building worthwhile unless the building could have other uses besides brewing.

Good point. But if the OP is in the frozen tundra, he'll have limited options of putting a 30 gallon water tank in the shed too (unless he wants to keep it heated all winter and above freezing, or purge it after every brew session, in which case he may spend more in heating over 20 years than he would by installing the water line).

 

[Falafel]

Hello everyone, thank you very much for the replies and the great ideas. For one, I live outside the Twin cities and the out building is about 20 x 30’. With that, I am leaning towards grandpamarks ideas on the RV tank or for that matter a set up for food trucks and a pump system. Unfortunately, I am outside the city limit and the previous owner built the building to work on his motorcycles and other toys and not for homebrewing in mind. I had both a well specialist and a plumber come out with their thoughts and due to the rough estimates a reservoir/pump system is the most affordable. The building is heated, so I can keep the tank above freezing. However as someone alluded, I am going to empty the tank after brews during the winter and use the hose during the summer. I am using the grainfather and don’t mind the five gal batches at a time.

Really, I was hoping that you all might have come across posts or links that would guide my thoughts as I put this together. But, I really appreciate the ideas from everyone.

 

[MaxStout]

I'm in the Twin Cities, too. If you were to run water line to it you either need to: 1) bury it 6-plus feet deep to get it below the frost line, or 2) bury it shallow and purge the line each fall. Option 1 gives you running water year-round, option 2 is warm months only.

The reservoir thing might be best, but you still need to get water to it. Do you have room inside the building for a big (like a few hundred gallon) water tank? You could fill it with a hose in the fall and have enough water for several brews in the winter. But you'd need to keep the indoor temp > freezing, and the fuel costs for that may eventually offset the cost of plumbing water to the shed.

 

[NewJersey]

If you're working with a grainfather (small footprint) is there anywhere in your house you can purpose for brewing? (basement? laundry room?)
I understand this doesn't answer your question, but it would save you all the expense of all the options laid out in this thread.

 

[imasickboy]

A water tank with a 110 volt heating element, a PID/temp controller, a $20 12 volt pump, and you should keep recirculated, above freezing temperature, water available with no issues. Filling the tank is really your only issue, but if you get a large one, your initial fill would suck, but topping off after brewday should be no big deal.

Chilling water can just be recirculated right back into the tank. No waste involved. As far as your other waste, (cleaning water, etc.), it's all safe, (and legal), to go right on the ground.

 

[kgranger]

I am actually planning a detached garage brewery, with similar restraints. Had to do a lot of brainstorming to figure out brew water and cleaning.

The garage isn't too far from the house, so I am going the route of garden hose supply. I bought 75 ft of drinking water safe hose which will connect to a garden hose faucet I have attached to the side of the garage. This faucet is linked to an identical faucet inside the garage. This way I can essentially just "plug it in" to the garage via the input on the outside, and disconnect when finished to avoid any freezing.

Inside the garage, I have a 4-way Tri-Clamp inside to split the water into 3 different applications: one to a wall mounted water filter and hose to use specifically for kettle filling, one to a two-way hose splitter so half can go to the cold water input on a laundry sink and half to a portable propane tankless water heater, and one to a regular garden hose with a sprayer for washing down equipment and other uses. The portable water heater now supplied with water has an output of hot water connecting to the hot side of the sink, so I now have cold and hot water in the sink.

I chose a Tri-Clamp splitter for this plumbing so that in the winter I can easily disconnect the 4-way from the wall mounted faucet inside the garage. This way all the water can drip out of the hoses together and prevent freezing.

As far as waste water, I have a large plastic bucket under the sink to collect everything. This is a bit convoluted, but to dispose of it I will empty these buckets into a large blue 55 gal drum attached to a hand cart, roll this to the house, and use a utility pump to move from the drum to the basement sink through my side door. I wanted to avoid as much heavy lifting as possible, even if it means more steps involved.

That being said, I haven't tested any of this out yet as I am still assembling the place, so it may not work out! All just theory at this point haha

Also, with the portable tankless heater, a lot of people recommend electric vs. gas. I have electrical in the garage, but very limited amperage left for such a high watt appliance.

Hope some of this helps!

 

[TechFanMD]

I am actually planning a detached garage brewery, with similar restraints. Had to do a lot of brainstorming to figure out brew water and cleaning.

The garage isn't too far from the house, so I am going the route of garden hose supply. I bought 75 ft of drinking water safe hose which will connect to a garden hose faucet I have attached to the side of the garage. This faucet is linked to an identical faucet inside the garage. This way I can essentially just "plug it in" to the garage via the input on the outside, and disconnect when finished to avoid any freezing.

Inside the garage, I have a 4-way Tri-Clamp inside to split the water into 3 different applications: one to a wall mounted water filter and hose to use specifically for kettle filling, one to a two-way hose splitter so half can go to the cold water input on a laundry sink and half to a portable propane tankless water heater, and one to a regular garden hose with a sprayer for washing down equipment and other uses. The portable water heater now supplied with water has an output of hot water connecting to the hot side of the sink, so I now have cold and hot water in the sink.

I chose a Tri-Clamp splitter for this plumbing so that in the winter I can easily disconnect the 4-way from the wall mounted faucet inside the garage. This way all the water can drip out of the hoses together and prevent freezing.

As far as waste water, I have a large plastic bucket under the sink to collect everything. This is a bit convoluted, but to dispose of it I will empty these buckets into a large blue 55 gal drum attached to a hand cart, roll this to the house, and use a utility pump to move from the drum to the basement sink through my side door. I wanted to avoid as much heavy lifting as possible, even if it means more steps involved.

That being said, I haven't tested any of this out yet as I am still assembling the place, so it may not work out! All just theory at this point haha

Also, with the portable tankless heater, a lot of people recommend electric vs. gas. I have electrical in the garage, but very limited amperage left for such a high watt appliance.

Hope some of this helps!

Just curious.....why not just dump the wastewater on the ground? Unless you're using something unusual to clean I can't see why you couldn't just spread it around (not on your wife's prize flowers of course).

 

[kgranger]

Just curious.....why not just dump the wastewater on the ground? Unless you're using something unusual to clean I can't see why you couldn't just spread it around (not on your wife's prize flowers of course).

I was a bit worried about PBW in the water (although I don't know maybe this is ok?) but especially worried about hop residue since I have a dog roaming the backyard. I've heard hops are harmful to dogs, so I wanted to avoid that as much as possible. I could just dump in the alley way, but at least during the winter time, I didn't want a trail of ice behind all of my neighbors houses.

I am hoping that in the summer, if I fill up a bucket or two of waste water from just rinsing off dusty equipment, I can dump this in the garden beds. But I would imagine most of my water will be full of cleaner and hops.

 

[TechFanMD]

Ahhh.....good point on the hops and dog.