Other Half Daydream (oat cream IPAs) - all grain clone attempts

[isomerization]

Here's what I have come up with.
50% Pils or 2Row
16.7% each Flaked oats, Malted oats and Golden Promise (may sub golden naked oats for the GP).
For hops thinking Citra and Vic Secret (2-1.5).
Yeast either Conan or 1318.
I don't want this grain bill to be overly complicated.
I'm skeptical about using Golden Naked Oats in this style, mainly because I want a very light color. Maybe split GP and GNO?
Thoughts?

If you want simplicity, then go 50/50 Pilsner/malted oats. I don’t see the appeal of GNO as they’re a crystal malt. Not a fan of caramel in my IPAs.

 

[Dryyourbeers]

You are missing something. The malting process develops the enzymes needed for starch conversion during the mash. Oat malt has gone through this process.

See:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/j.2050-0416.2011.tb00487.x

Good oat primer from Janish:
http://scottjanish.com/case-brewing-oats/

i thought that didn’t happening when malting oats. I use this chart as a reference and it lists all oat types (including malted) as having 0 diastatic power. Is it wrong?

 

[Cathedral]

Just wanted to drop in and say I took this recipe and bastardized it to make a Red ale, because that's what I was craving at the time. It's cold crashing now; I'm kegging it tomorrow so it's ready for the weekend. I'll post pictures when it's done, just for sharts and gaggles.

Well, kegged this and, uh. My final gravity was at 1.035 (!!!!!!!) so I must have had a stalled fermentation. Thankfully it was only a 1-gallon test batch. It was actually good, just very very sweet and the mouthfeel was too slick and viscous. I'm hoping the CO2 will help add a litter bit of bite to take the edge off, otherwise I'm tossing it and refining the recipe.

 

[TravelingLight]

I brew this on 2/8:

49% Pils
42% Malted Oats
6% White Wheat
3% Raw Wheat
Hops: Vic Secret, Citra, Bru-1; all whirlpool, DDH, and a keg hop
Yeast: Voss Kveik
Kegged 2/13

Hopefully I can update this post with a picture. I was wanting to get one with some good outdoor lighting, but it's been rainy and dreary here all week. This one probably has the best body and mouthfeel of any NEIPA I've done yet. My only complaint is the color. I'd like to lighten it up some. Looking at that grist, you'd think it would be very light. But it's still got this darker opaqueness to it that I don't like. I've been in a color slump lately. I'll probably drop the raw wheat next time because I don't think it's doing much and is adding some color. IME with these beers, and I love them so I've brewed a ton of them, there's this window on the color spectrum that I hate. As absolutely light in color as possible, like sub-4 SRM, and you're good. Or if you take it a little darker and get the right ratio of small percentages of higher lovibond malts, and you get that beautiful almost neon orange Sunny D look. But in between those two ends of the spectrum you run the risk of it looking like dirty dish water. That's my experience. And lately I've been whiffing on color. I'll try and upload a pic of this one later.

ETA: I also missed my OG 7 points low because I had a brain fart and didn't tighten the gap on my mill for the oats. Lesson learned.

 

[beervoid]

I brew this on 2/8:

49% Pils
42% Malted Oats
6% White Wheat
3% Raw Wheat
Hops: Vic Secret, Citra, Bru-1; all whirlpool, DDH, and a keg hop
Yeast: Voss Kveik
Kegged 2/13

Hopefully I can update this post with a picture. I was wanting to get one with some good outdoor lighting, but it's been rainy and dreary here all week. This one probably has the best body and mouthfeel of any NEIPA I've done yet. My only complaint is the color. I'd like to lighten it up some. Looking at that grist, you'd think it would be very light. But it's still got this darker opaqueness to it that I don't like. I've been in a color slump lately. I'll probably drop the raw wheat next time because I don't think it's doing much and is adding some color. IME with these beers, and I love them so I've brewed a ton of them, there's this window on the color spectrum that I hate. As absolutely light in color as possible, like sub-4 SRM, and you're good. Or if you take it a little darker and get the right ratio of small percentages of higher lovibond malts, and you get that beautiful almost neon orange Sunny D look. But in between those two ends of the spectrum you run the risk of it looking like dirty dish water. That's my experience. And lately I've been whiffing on color. I'll try and upload a pic of this one later.

ETA: I also missed my OG 7 points low because I had a brain fart and didn't tighten the gap on my mill for the oats. Lesson learned.

What kind of ebc/srm did you calculate on your bill?
It doesnt seem like this would be murky.
I've had beers in the 6.5srm range that still had a nice deep orange glow.
The murk might go as it clears up a little. Also the wideness of your glass and light play a big role.

 

[skibb]

Different yeasts give you different murks - give it a little time to settle (Kveik generally don't like to) and it should brighten up a bit.

Also the raw wheat is probably the lightest SRM grain you have in that bill.

 

[Dgallo]

Different yeasts give you different murks - give it a little time to settle (Kveik generally don't like to) and it should brighten up a bit.

Also the raw wheat is probably the lightest SRM grain you have in that bill.

+1

If your looking for orange color I would say you need something with some color. All the grains are 3.5srm or lower.

I use about 3-5 % honey malt to hit a pure orange. You don’t necessarily need to use honey malt but a grain that’s in the 20-30L range

 

[brew703]

I brew this on 2/8:

49% Pils
42% Malted Oats
6% White Wheat
3% Raw Wheat
Hops: Vic Secret, Citra, Bru-1; all whirlpool, DDH, and a keg hop
Yeast: Voss Kveik
Kegged 2/13

Hopefully I can update this post with a picture. I was wanting to get one with some good outdoor lighting, but it's been rainy and dreary here all week. This one probably has the best body and mouthfeel of any NEIPA I've done yet. My only complaint is the color. I'd like to lighten it up some. Looking at that grist, you'd think it would be very light. But it's still got this darker opaqueness to it that I don't like. I've been in a color slump lately. I'll probably drop the raw wheat next time because I don't think it's doing much and is adding some color. IME with these beers, and I love them so I've brewed a ton of them, there's this window on the color spectrum that I hate. As absolutely light in color as possible, like sub-4 SRM, and you're good. Or if you take it a little darker and get the right ratio of small percentages of higher lovibond malts, and you get that beautiful almost neon orange Sunny D look. But in between those two ends of the spectrum you run the risk of it looking like dirty dish water. That's my experience. And lately I've been whiffing on color. I'll try and upload a pic of this one later.

ETA: I also missed my OG 7 points low because I had a brain fart and didn't tighten the gap on my mill for the oats. Lesson learned.

What was your water chemistry?

 

[TravelingLight]

What kind of ebc/srm did you calculate on your bill?
It doesnt seem like this would be murky.
I've had beers in the 6.5srm range that still had a nice deep orange glow.
The murk might go as it clears up a little. Also the wideness of your glass and light play a big role.

4.2 SRM. I agree, some of my Sunny D bombs have been in the upper 5, lower 6 SRM ranges.

+1

If your looking for orange color I would say you need something with some color. All the grains are 3.5srm or lower.

I use about 3-5 % honey malt to hit a pure orange. You don’t necessarily need to use honey malt but a grain that’s in the 20-30L range

In the past I've hit the orange color with around 2% honey malt and 5% light munich (like 8-10L).

What was your water chemistry?

I've been doing 3:1 chloride:sulfate for a couple years now. This one, however, I added in a small amount (~50ppm) salt in hopes of teasing out a little sweetness to contrast the "juiciness."

 

[Dgallo]

In the past I've hit the orange color with around 2% honey malt and 5% light munich (like 8-10L).

Yeah that is mathematically the same Lovibon contribution as 3-5 % honey alone so it would be very similar

 

[couchsending]

1% Caraaroma is great for that deep orange color

 

[beervoid]

Going 100% golden promise also does the trick for me.

 

[Dgallo]

Going 100% golden promise also does the trick for me.

That’s odd that you get orange from GP. What maltster do use? I’ve only ever seen it in the 1.2-2.8L. That’s literally straw yellow.

 

[Frieds]

I can’t get Malted Oats from any of my LHBS. What’s the difference or benefits of using Malted Oats over supermarket bought Rolled Oats? Is the much difference in taste & mouthfeel?

 

[Dgallo]

I can’t get Malted Oats from any of my LHBS. What’s the difference or benefits of using Malted Oats over supermarket bought Rolled Oats? Is the much difference in taste & mouthfeel?

Rolled oats are flaked oats. It’s been discussed quite a bit over the last page or so the pros and cons of using both forms of oats

 

[Frieds]

Rolled oats are flaked oats. It’s been discussed quite a bit over the last page or so the pros and cons of using both forms of oats

Cheers. Wasn’t aware they were the same.

 

[beervoid]

That’s odd that you get orange from GP. What maltster do use? I’ve only ever seen it in the 1.2-2.8L. That’s literally straw yellow.

Thomas Fawcett, 2.1l to 2.8l
That beer photo I posted the other day in the neipa thread is golden promise / pilsener 50/50 with about 15% adjuncts. And calculated already around 5.1 srm and turning orangish. If you go 100% gp it get even darker.
In my experience if you go above 6.6 ish srm you getting into dark murk territory if you have a good thick haze.

 

[Dgallo]

Cheers. Wasn’t aware they were the same.

Sorry I just reread my post to you and it came of kinda brash. I didn’t mean it to come off that way

 

[Frieds]

Sorry I just reread my post to you and it came of kinda brash. I didn’t mean it to come off that way

I didn’t take it that way. I’ve interacted with you enough around the message board to know that you’re not like that.

 

[brew703]

For those who have brewed this style what was your water chemistry?
I'm thinking probably need to increase Na and CI just unsure to what extent.
I'm looking to try hand at this recipe in a couple weeks.

 

[isomerization]

For those who have brewed this style what was your water chemistry?
I'm thinking probably need to increase Na and CI just unsure to what extent.
I'm looking to try hand at this recipe in a couple weeks.

My take on this style is that it is essentially a sweeter, bigger bodies NE IPA. Thus, I would bump up bitterness ~10 IBU, increase sulfate and decrease chloride.

I tapped my version right at 13 days post brew and am extremely pleased. Finished at 1.019 (with a pound of lactose). Would brew again and bump bitterness up a tad (10 IBU in kettle, 40 predicted total).

Edit, updated with better photo below

 

[couchsending]

Yeah I would agree.. although I’ve never made this “style” the lactose, FG, and all the oats are creating such a thick beer already I’d think you would want to increase the sulfate and calcium content to make it more drinkable. Lots of oats and lots of chloride leads to serious astringency in my experience.

 

[beervoid]

Yeah I would agree.. although I’ve never made this “style” the lactose, FG, and all the oats are creating such a thick beer already I’d think you would want to increase the sulfate and calcium content to make it more drinkable. Lots of oats and lots of chloride leads to serious astringency in my experience.

What kind of chloride levels are we talking?
I think gravity plays a role as well as chloride and sulfate contributions from the malts go up.
Are you saying you could go higher in chloride with non oat beers vs oat beers?
Cheers

 

[brew703]

My take on this style is that it is essentially a sweeter, bigger bodies NE IPA. Thus, I would bump up bitterness ~10 IBU, increase sulfate and decrease chloride.

I tapped my version right at 13 days post brew and am extremely pleased. Finished at 1.019 (with a pound of lactose). Would brew again and bump bitterness up a tad (10 IBU in kettle, 40 predicted total).

Lighting sucks and still a touch of yeast in suspension (first pour):
View attachment 667717

I would have thought the opposite about sulfate/chloride. I would have reduced sulfate and increased chloride. The oat cream IPA i had just about had zero hoppiness so I doubt they went high on sulfate. Just didnt taste like it.

 

[isomerization]

I would have thought the opposite about sulfate/chloride. I would have reduced sulfate and increased chloride. The oat cream IPA i had just about had zero hoppiness so I doubt they went high on sulfate. Just didnt taste like it.

Do you mean bitterness and not happiness? I’d say they balanced the beer properly then if it wasn’t cloying

I’m not advocating to flip to WC IPA sulfate levels, just that you want to bring the numbers closer together. Say from 75/200 to 100/150 (sulfate/chloride), something like that.

 

[brew703]

Yea I get what you are saying. All I know is the one I had was completely different than anything I've ever tasted.
It was no where even close to a pale ale profile so that's why I'm thinking easy on the sulfate and more chloride.

 

[isomerization]

Yea I get what you are saying. All I know is the one I had was completely different than anything I've ever tasted.
It was no where even close to a pale ale profile so that's why I'm thinking easy on the sulfate and more chloride.

Sorry, having trouble envisioning what you’re talking about. This tasted like an IPA right? Are you trying to say it was super smooth?

 

[isomerization]

Better photo:

 

[brew703]

Not sure what you drank but the oat cream IPA was nothing like an IPA. It was more NEIPA but smooth and creamy.

 

[isomerization]

Not sure what you drank but the oat cream IPA was nothing like an IPA. It was more NEIPA but smooth and creamy.

That’s literally what I said! I think we just went in circles for no reason lol.

For the record, flipping sulfate/chloride amounts doesn’t turn a NE IPA into a WC IPA. Lot more variables at play!