Optimum length of time for dry hopping.

[stz]

Hello!

I've dry hopped two beers now and been less than impressed with the results. One was an american style wheat which got 50g pellet amerillo in secondary, a 25L batch for about a week (didn't really seem to add anything to the nose, I had high expectations though) another was a 25L dunkle weizen which for some reason, (I think I had some spare and because I'd used a tiny amount of northern brewer for bittering only) I tossed 50g of leaf hallertau for about 5 days, (didn't notice ANYTHING at all from the dry hops but the beer is good, very smooth).

Now I've made a 50L batch of something which is supposed to resemble a heavily hopped APA. 50L is quite a commitment in terms of ingredients and effort so I want it to be the best it can be.

90% pale marris otter (low colour, hopefully more malt backbones than pale)
5% carapils (maltiness, colour)
2.5% aromatic malt (maltiness, colour, aroma)
2.5% melodian (maltiness)

90 minute mash at 150F. (clean dry finish?)

100g challenger pellets at 90 minute
50g cascade at flame out
50g citra at flame out

Immediately chill. Yeast is US-05

I'm going to give it 14 days, then transfer to secondary and add another 50g each of cascade and citra, I was going to dry hop for 7 days but my previous experiences haven't been great and I'm hoping to learn something, I've done some reading, at it would seem that at ale temperatures, 3-4 days is actually the peak for dry hopping? Do people agree? Disagree? Is my lack of aroma down to amounts? Time in secondary or poor technique in bottling? I think I fined with geletin with the last two attempts at dry hopping?

Help please! Admittedly I'd only be out of pocket $40 or so if the batch is awful, but I'm stubborn and I'll drink it regardless while loathing myself.

 

[twistr25]

It seems like you are a little low on the amount for the size batch you have. I typically do a minimum of 2 ounces(~60 grams) per 5 gallon(~19L) batch. Overall 7-10 days is a typical length for dry-hopping. Do you have a hop sock or some other device to get the hops to the bottom of the secondary or are they floating?

For your recipe, I would add the Challenger at 60 minutes. Did you put your recipe in brewing software to see what your IBUs come out to?

 

[pfgonzo]

Another question to ask is if you bottle or keg. I am singularly unimpressed with the hop aroma/punch of my bottled conditioned beers. They will never be as in-your-face as dry hops that are placed, and left, in a chilled keg.

 

[stz]

Bottle but I've had commercial hop monsters in bottles. I think the recipe came up 51ibu on beer smith. This 50L batch will have 300g hops total in the

 

[Ixtlanas]

Couldn't be simply a question about hop quality? I state this 'cause I noticed big aroma changes between several batches of the same recipe.
Centennial for bittering, Cascade for late addition and DH
In the first one, I put 7 grams of Cascade in DH with Alcohol in about 5 Gals (hops in alcohol for about 5/7 days, I see here most of you do it with vodka. With a new the hop pack, the aroma was lower (a lot) than the first one. Third Cascade order: same low aroma. In the last beer I did it with 8 grams plus another 20 grams in normal DH but aroma was still low.
Maybe I'am wrong, but I'm quite sure most aroma problems are related with hops quality.

 

[bobeer]

I've noticed a big difference between using whole cone hops and pellet hops. If you don't put the whole cone hops in a bag and weigh them down they just float on the top thus not giving you a good nose on the beer. If you use pellet hops they break up and dissolve in the beer giving you a much better nose to your beer. I made a rye pale ale one time and the nose stayed in it for 5 months; which is when I drank the last one. I used pellet hops for that one. Maybe give them a try and see if it helps or weigh down your whole cone hops.

 

[unionrdr]

For 50L,the dry hop might have to be as much as 6 ounces or more for 7-10 days to get decent aroma. I got great aroma in one of my latest IPA's with the remaining 2.4ozs of hops left from the 1.2ozs for flavor in the boil. Save the aroma hop additions in the end of the boil to dry hop with. That should help a little.

 

[twistr25]

Couldn't be simply a question about hop quality? I state this 'cause I noticed big aroma changes between several batches of the same recipe.
Centennial for bittering, Cascade for late addition and DH
In the first one, I put 7 grams of Cascade in DH with Alcohol in about 5 Gals (hops in alcohol for about 5/7 days, I see here most of you do it with vodka. With a new the hop pack, the aroma was lower (a lot) than the first one. Third Cascade order: same low aroma. In the last beer I did it with 8 grams plus another 20 grams in normal DH but aroma was still low.
Maybe I'am wrong, but I'm quite sure most aroma problems are related with hops quality.

Check the AA values, they can vary from year to year. Why did you add the hops to alcohol? They don't need to be sanitized. One of the reasons hops are used in beer in the first place, to help preservation.

 

[Yooper]

Couldn't be simply a question about hop quality? I state this 'cause I noticed big aroma changes between several batches of the same recipe.
Centennial for bittering, Cascade for late addition and DH
In the first one, I put 7 grams of Cascade in DH with Alcohol in about 5 Gals (hops in alcohol for about 5/7 days, I see here most of you do it with vodka. With a new the hop pack, the aroma was lower (a lot) than the first one. Third Cascade order: same low aroma. In the last beer I did it with 8 grams plus another 20 grams in normal DH but aroma was still low.
Maybe I'am wrong, but I'm quite sure most aroma problems are related with hops quality.

I don't understand this. You put the dryhops in alcohol before putting in the beer? Why? I don't get that.

7 grams (if it's a 5 gallon batch) is nothing. It'd be like adding 1/16 of a teaspoon of salt to a gallon of spaghetti.

20 grams is a bit better but I wouldn't use less than 30 grams in a dryhop, and preferably 45 grams at a minimum, in a 5 gallon batch.

 

[Ixtlanas]

#Yooper
No DH, I mean:
- 7 grams in xx ml of alcohol (xx stays for: the amount which covers the hops, pellets is better, of course). I use alcohol for food use, dunno the correct name in Eng, it's 95°)
- after 5/7 days I pick the alcohol which has extracted aromas (and alpha acids) and I put it into the fermenter (usually ABV in the final beer is enhanced from +0.2 to +0.3)
That's all, no DH at all, from my experience if you dry hop with alcohol you need about 4 to 5 less quantity. Alpha acids are extracted too, it's hard to tell how much, always for what I drink I'd say if you keep alcohol with hops for 5/7 days you can compare IBUs to a 45 minutes boil.

I did about 6 times the same recipe, and the first two batches (same Cascade packet) had a really strong floreal aroma. Can't say the same for the others, although I used the same quantities... I'am evaluating to start buying hops from UK, I suppose freshness is a lottery being Italy a non-producer country.

 

[twistr25]

That still doesn't really explain why you decided to "steep" them in alcohol. Did you see that somewhere before? Is that a typical practice in Italian beers? Usually the only things we soak in vodka are fruits or oak chip additions.

 

[Yooper]

#Yooper
No DH, I mean:
- 7 grams in xx ml of alcohol (xx stays for: the amount which covers the hops, pellets is better, of course). I use alcohol for food use, dunno the correct name in Eng, it's 95°)
- after 5/7 days I pick the alcohol which has extracted aromas (and alpha acids) and I put it into the fermenter (usually ABV in the final beer is enhanced from +0.2 to +0.3)
That's all, no DH at all, from my experience if you dry hop with alcohol you need about 4 to 5 less quantity. Alpha acids are extracted too, it's hard to tell how much, always for what I drink I'd say if you keep alcohol with hops for 5/7 days you can compare IBUs to a 45 minutes boil.

I did about 6 times the same recipe, and the first two batches (same Cascade packet) had a really strong floreal aroma. Can't say the same for the others, although I used the same quantities... I'am evaluating to start buying hops from UK, I suppose freshness is a lottery being Italy a non-producer country.

I've never heard of doing that before- but you're saying in one post that you get very little flavor and aroma from it and then in this post that you need 4-5 less quantity. In other words, it's not working as a dryhop, I guess.

It probably isn't freshness related, but instead related to technique.

When you boil hops, for example, and the alpha acids are extracted and the hops isomerize into IBUs, you lose the flavor and aroma from the hops. Perhaps soaking them in alcohol degrades the aroma while extracting the alpha acids.

Everyone I know who dryhops puts about 30-100 grams of hops (no soaking) into 19 liters of finished beer. I dryhop for 5-7 days or so, but have gone as short as 3 days, for freshest hops aroma.

 

[Ixtlanas]

You got the point.... this technique is experimental, and to now it gave me different outcomes. For example in one batch I had a full grass flavour... as already said first two batches were wonderfull, the others so so.
Usually I use standard DH, from 1 to 3 grams/Liter, about 20 to 60 grams/5 gallons, but even in these normal DH I didn't reach the desired outcome, that's why I say maybe the 'material' has 'gone'

 

[Ixtlanas]

That still doesn't really explain why you decided to "steep" them in alcohol. Did you see that somewhere before? Is that a typical practice in Italian beers? Usually the only things we soak in vodka are fruits or oak chip additions.

I wouldn't say it is a practice
It was an experiment, and because the first time a wonderful APA came out, I kept continuing. But all these different/uncertainty outcomes are boring me.