Opinions on my water and adjustments

[RocketBrewer]

I've been brewing all grain for quite a while but other than PH buffers, have never attempted to make a lot of adjustments to the brewing water. I'm just completing the build of my new EHERMS brewery and wish to step up my game a bit. Also, I'm brewing with a different water source than in the past and hope to pick the brains of some of the amazing people here on what to expect from it. I have had my water tested by ward labs and have very soft water. My concern is that it may be too close to RO water and may need other mineral/salt additions. I'm planning on following ajdelange's "Brewing water chemistry primer" guidelines for adjusting the mash, but was interested in getting some opinions on weather or not I should be making any other adjustments to either the sparge water or the boil, and if so, what additions you would suggest. I have purchased a PH meter and plan to monitor the PH throughout the brew. I'm planning a fairly basic pale ale for the first brew, so there won't be any roasted grains. Here are the results of the testing, any opinions would be greatly appreciated!!!

 

[Yooper]

Wow- what wonderful water to start with!

I would suggest using a brewing spreadsheet (bru'nwater is a great one) to get a mash pH of 5.4 for a pale ale, and using some gypsum to increase the sulfate. You can brew with that water as is with really good results, but adding a bit of gypsum to a pale ale (and making sure the mash pH is about 5.4) would make it really great.

 

[Ben58]

What Yooper said. That water is an awesome start point.

 

[grathan]

needs calcium.

 

[RocketBrewer]

Thanks for replying so fast! According to Bru'n Water, the pale ale profile targets for calcium and sulfate are 140 and 300 ppm. Adding 2 g gypsum per gal of water will bring the calcium up to 127.9 ppm and sulfate up to 295.4 ppm. Does that sound like a pretty good balance. Gypsum can be added to the HLT OK right?

According to the Mash acidification calculator, the predicted PH is 5.2 so I'm guessing that I probably don't need the acid malt???

Also, it talks about acidifying the sparge water to 5.5-6 range, is this a good idea? It also says it may not be necessary if alkalinity is below 25 (mine is 11). It says to add acid before heating water which would be a problem as my water will already be heated for the HERMS.

Is it likely that I will need to adjust the boil PH at all?

Thanks again, I really appreciate the help!

 

[grathan]

I add 2 tsp gypsum to hlt and 2 tsp gypsum to boil(similar profile).

I also acidify sparge water. Haven't messed with it enough to say if it's worthwhile, though a small jar of lactic acid in your case would last 10 years probably even if needed.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for replying so fast! According to Bru'n Water, the pale ale profile targets for calcium and sulfate are 140 and 300 ppm. Adding 2 g gypsum per gal of water will bring the calcium up to 127.9 ppm and sulfate up to 295.4 ppm. Does that sound like a pretty good balance. Gypsum can be added to the HLT OK right?

According to the Mash acidification calculator, the predicted PH is 5.2 so I'm guessing that I probably don't need the acid malt???

Also, it talks about acidifying the sparge water to 5.5-6 range, is this a good idea? It also says it may not be necessary if alkalinity is below 25 (mine is 11). It says to add acid before heating water which would be a problem as my water will already be heated for the HERMS.

Is it likely that I will need to adjust the boil PH at all?

Thanks again, I really appreciate the help!

Some people like 300 ppm of sulfate- I do not in most cases. Why not go half that amount? You don't need calcium, however 40-50 ppm is beneficial for yeast flocculation, so if you go to say 60 ppm of Calcium, and 150 ppm of sulfate, or thereabouts, that would be right up my alley for flavor in a pale ale.

You want a pH of 5.3-5.4 or so for a pale ale, so you don't need acid malt if you're in there.

You don't need to acidify your sparge water, as you have nearly RO quality water there, with very little alkalinity.

 

[RocketBrewer]

I add 2 tsp gypsum to hlt and 2 tsp gypsum to boil(similar profile).

I also acidify sparge water. Haven't messed with it enough to say if it's worthwhile, though a small jar of lactic acid in your case would last 10 years probably even if needed.

Thanks grathan, what batch size are you working with?

Some people like 300 ppm of sulfate- I do not in most cases. Why not go half that amount? You don't need calcium, however 40-50 ppm is beneficial for yeast flocculation, so if you go to say 60 ppm of Calcium, and 150 ppm of sulfate, or thereabouts, that would be right up my alley for flavor in a pale ale.

You want a pH of 5.3-5.4 or so for a pale ale, so you don't need acid malt if you're in there.

You don't need to acidify your sparge water, as you have nearly RO quality water there, with very little alkalinity.

Thanks so much Yooper! Do you think The boil will need any adjustment?

 

[Yooper]

Thanks so much Yooper! Do you think The boil will need any adjustment?

No. It will be fine, with the alkalinity of your sparge water (or rather, the lack of), and the mash pH of 5.3-5.4.

 

[Yooper]

I add 2 tsp gypsum to hlt and 2 tsp gypsum to boil(similar profile).

I also acidify sparge water. Haven't messed with it enough to say if it's worthwhile, though a small jar of lactic acid in your case would last 10 years probably even if needed.

4 teaspoons of gypsum in a 5 gallon batch (if that is your batch size) in RO water would mean 184 ppm calcium and 450 ppm of sulfate. Perhaps they are very scant teaspoons, or you're doing a 10 gallon batch?

In any case, keep the calcium to under 100 ppm and the sulfate to where you like the flavor (like I said, in most recipes I prefer far less than 300 ppm but others may like it higher) and you'll be all set.

One thing to consider is that for one batch, use the "less is more" philosophy. If you add a minimal amount of calcium sulfate, say, 5-7 grams total, you can't go wrong. You may say, "Well, this is great but if the beer was just a wee bit drier in the finish, I might like it more" and if you do, add more gypsum the next time. But if you put in too much, you can't take it out.

You could even add some gypsum to a glass of IPA or pale ale, to see if you like what it brings to the beer.

 

[grathan]

It's like 6-7 gallons. I am pretty happy with it. It's not an exact measurement, sometimes more and sometimes less. I don't think you can have too much calcium in beer. It does a lot of good.

I also wonder about the solubility of sulfate. If I dump 2 tsp in strike water and then mash and then recirculate, would it all be in solution or would some be left behind?

 

[Yooper]

It's like 6-7 gallons. I am pretty happy with it. It's not an exact measurement, sometimes more and sometimes less. I don't think you can have too much calcium in beer. It does a lot of good.

I also wonder about the solubility of sulfate. If I dump 2 tsp in strike water and then mash and then recirculate, would it all be in solution or would some be left behind?

You CAN have too much calcium in the beer, but up to 100 ppm or so is fine. Some go to 150 ppm with calcium with ok results.

Whatever minerals you add to the water will be in the finished beer, however if you start with 7 gallons of water, and end with 5 gallons of wort, it will be in the 5 gallons due to boil off.

 

[grathan]

I start with 9-10 end up with 6-7.

 

[JonM]

That is some awesome water.

One thing I didn't see mentioned is whether there is chlorine/chloramine in the water. It'd be worthwhile to add some campden just to make sure that any chlorine/chloramine is gone because it can really mess up a good beer if it is present. AJ DeLange recommends crushing a campden tablet, dissolving it in a glass of water, and slowly adding it to the water and stirring until any chlorine smell is gone.

 

[RocketBrewer]

You could even add some gypsum to a glass of IPA or pale ale, to see if you like what it brings to the beer.

That's an interesting idea Yooper. I always assumed that it was the presence DURING the brew that had an affect on hop perception. I'm going to have to try this.

That is some awesome water.

One thing I didn't see mentioned is whether there is chlorine/chloramine in the water. It'd be worthwhile to add some campden just to make sure that any chlorine/chloramine is gone because it can really mess up a good beer if it is present. AJ DeLange recommends crushing a campden tablet, dissolving it in a glass of water, and slowly adding it to the water and stirring until any chlorine smell is gone.

Thanks JonM, It does have chlorine. I'm going to use a charcoal filter and if I don't think that gets it done, I'll use a camden tab. Does anyone know if the camden tablets change the water at all other than removing the chlorine/chloromines?

 

[JonM]

A Campden tablet will add a teeny tiny bit of something, but you likely use less than one tablet, so nothing to worry about.

 

[Yooper]

For great info on using campden tablets (potassium metabisulfite): https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/campden-tablets-sulfites-brewing-water-361073/

 

[ajdelange]

According to Bru'n Water, the pale ale profile targets for calcium and sulfate are 140

Seven (7) mEq/L ?! Hardness of 350 ppm as CaCO3?

and 300 ppm.

I guess if you are going to have 6.5 mEq/L sulfate you'll need something like that to balance it. I have heard that some people like that much sulfate but I certainly wouldn't start out at that level.

Adding 2 g gypsum per gal of water will bring the calcium up to 127.9 ppm and sulfate up to 295.4 ppm. Does that sound like a pretty good balance.

Even the Primer which goes pretty heavy on the gypsum for the sake of those that like sulfate (who seem to be in the majority) recommends half that much and I think the Primers recommendation is high. I usually advise starting out with a low level if sulfate and then tasting in the glass to see if you want more.

Gypsum can be added to the HLT OK right?

Yes though it dissolves a bit more readily in cold water.

According to the Mash acidification calculator, the predicted PH is 5.2 so I'm guessing that I probably don't need the acid malt???

That will depend on the malts you use. If you were to use Muntons Maris Otter with 10% 20L crystal you would (with the 7 mEq/L calcium) probably measure around 5.7. Were you to use Crisp MO, conversely, you'd probably measure about 5.6. The difference is not in the buffering of the two malts so much as that the Crisp shifts pH much less with temperature than the Muntons. The pH's at mash temp would be about the same (I know it gets somewhat complicated - this is why it is always best to base decisions on test mash pH readings). Evidently in either case you will need the sauermalz. Of course if you are using a base malt with a lower DI mash pH you might not need it.

Also, it talks about acidifying the sparge water to 5.5-6 range, is this a good idea? It also says it may not be necessary if alkalinity is below 25 (mine is 11).

No, it is not necessary to acidify this sparge water because its alkalinity is so low. Were you to try to do it it would take so little acid that there would be a good chance you'd overshoot.

It says to add acid before heating water which would be a problem as my water will already be heated for the HERMS.

While it is moot in your case there's no problem with adding acid in the HLTn with a bit of circumspection. I think the concern there is that heating can cause alkalinity to drop out. But consider water with alkalinity and calcium hardness both equal to 100 ppm as CaCO3. Lets suppose that heating it dropped 100 mg/L CaCO3 onto the bottom of the HLT. The supernatant water would then have 0 alkalinity and hardness (note that in the real world only perhaps half would drop out). But the water plus the CaCO3 on the bottom of the HLT together have hardness of 100 mg/L. The acid will simply redissolve the CaCO3 and get you right back to where you were in the first place. From this it is clear that what you should not do is heaat to the point of precipitation, decant and then add the acid.

Is it likely that I will need to adjust the boil PH at all?

That you will have to determine with a pH measurement.