One dumped beer after another

[ahpsp]

That is incorrect. Most quality dry yeast packages are 11 grams. They have sufficient cells for most 5 gallon batches of beer.

Either you are misunderstanding me, or my understanding is off. What I'm saying is that there is a difference between the number of yeast cells you should pitch, and the number needed for good fermentation. Yeast reproduce in the wort. This reproduction takes oxygen, and is crucial to many aspects of beer flavor formation. The number of cells in a good starter are determined by the sweet spot between over-stressing and under-stressing the yeast during this reproduction. I know that a packet of dry yeast has enough cells to hit this sweet spot (hence my use of the phrase "may or may not" in the phrase you quoted: dry yeast do, liquid packets do not), but it's the sweet spot for propagation, not for actual fermentation.

This is why trub contains billions more cells than the number that were pitched, and why pitching onto a full yeast cake is frowned on my many people.

 

[Yooper]

.................. or my understanding is off.

Yes.

Say you need 190 billion cells as an optimum pitch rate based on your OG and batch size. (You can find that out on mrmalty.com or on yeastcalc.com for a good guestimate of the optimum pitch rate).

If you have a dry yeast package with 220 billion cells, you don't even need the entire package, let alone a starter.

If you have a liquid yeast package with 75 billion cells, you need a starter. A good guestimate would be a 1.5 liter starter for the optimum cell count.

Yeast reproduce, yes. And part of the reproduction phase creates flavors in the beer so you don't want to overpitch. But gross underpitching is a much more common cause of off-flavors, and it's much easier to underpitch than overpitch.

 

[ahpsp]

Ok. I understand all about the pitch rate, per se. I must be misunderstanding how yeast work in beer. Thanks.

 

[lifesjoys]

Someone should do an experiment. 5gal simple beer. Split into 2, be very gentle with one to limit oxygen. Then put a ton of oxygen in the other half. Split a pack of dry yeast. Then see what happens.

 

[dyqik]

Someone should do an experiment. 5gal simple beer. Split into 2, be very gentle with one to limit oxygen. Then put a ton of oxygen in the other half. Split a pack of dry yeast. Then see what happens.

You also need a batch with the right amount of oxygen in it. It's easy to over aerate with pure O2 and a stone in a small batch.

 

[Clonefan94]

Someone should do an experiment. 5gal simple beer. Split into 2, be very gentle with one to limit oxygen. Then put a ton of oxygen in the other half. Split a pack of dry yeast. Then see what happens.

Basic Brewing radio did a great podcast on this. It's from July 13th. They had all kinds of variables, shaking, stirring, powered stirring, no aeration, pure O2, lots of pure O2. The shaking and limited pure O2 gave the best results. Look into that podcast, had a ton of good information in it. Although I can't remember the yeast they used. so obviously that wouldn't do you any good if it wasn't dry yeast.

 

[uatuba]

Someone should do an experiment. 5gal simple beer. Split into 2, be very gentle with one to limit oxygen. Then put a ton of oxygen in the other half. Split a pack of dry yeast. Then see what happens.

I brewed numerous beers with no O2 or shaking. They took slightly longer to start but still fermented.

 

[smizak]

In my humble experience, the yeast websites overall suggest a pitching rate that is less than optimal. I've used dry and liquid under all the manufacturers recommendations, and my beers didn't meet the quality I was happy with until I pitched the rates recommended by Jamil (Mr. Malty) with pure O2 in the starter (stir plate) and wort. Huge shift in quality when I started this, like mind blowing huge. Like I said, IMHO, individual results may vary...

 

[Trippel-A]

You are the one saying your beer is astringent from mashing too long. Doesn't make sense.

You want to get in to a pissing contest, I'll go 12 rounds without a sweat. Don't ask for advice if you're too proud to take it.

To be fair, he never asked for advice.

 

[rico567]

A variety of beers going bad in the OP seems to indicate (IMHO, and in order of likelihood):

1. A sanitation problem, but it appears that this is being addressed.

2. A yeast underpitching problem. Personally, I've brewed for six years, and have made exactly one (1) starter. I use both Wyeast smack-packs and dry yeast, and I've never dumped a batch yet.

3. An æration problem. Two years ago I got the William's Brewing æration kit, and this was the single best move I have made toward uniform quality since I started homebrewing. I just stick that wand in the fermenter and give it about 30 seconds of O2, and I'm good.

 

[clarksc4]

As far as the addition of gypsum, do you know ht your water profile is before adding it? If your water is already high in sulfite ad/or chlorides this can cause an increase in perceived bitterness. That's the point if adding gypsum for IPAs, but if the addition was unnecessary because f your water profile that would cause an unwanted increase