Omega Lutra yeast?

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beersk

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Follow-up: Kegged the "LutraFest" last weekend and is already crystal clear. The longer this beer cold conditions, the more like a lager it seems. Even has this lager 'signature' that no other ale has had in my experience. Still, so far not as 'clean' as a commercial lager, but getting better and closer with conditioning for sure.

My wife, who normally dislikes most ales, or anything hoppy, had a glass of it last night--huge compliment. Her comment was "Just like being in the Hofbrauhaus!"
Nice, LutraFest is what I called my Oktoberfest last year as well. Great minds, man!

I agree, the yeast is a great option, especially for those without ferm temp control. But definitely not going to fool anyone. Still a nice clean yeast that attenuates well and drops bright really fast.
 
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DuncB

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@Andre3000 is it the opening of the fermenter that is the oxidation risk?
I have an inline infuser that I could use without any oxygen ( could even deoxygentate the water for the finings ) if I needed to.

Agree with you a finished ferment and cool temps and a bit of time they should clear.

However It took about 8 weeks for a bitter to clear that I used dry Windsor yeast in. Never again. By the time it had cleared I'd just about finished it and that was with a floating dip tube.
 

Andre3000

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Do you happen to have any references that I can look at in regards to cold side fining and oxidation? I'm still a noob to cold side fining
@Andre3000 is it the opening of the fermenter that is the oxidation risk?
I have an inline infuser that I could use without any oxygen ( could even deoxygentate the water for the finings ) if I needed to.

Agree with you a finished ferment and cool temps and a bit of time they should clear.

However It took about 8 weeks for a bitter to clear that I used dry Windsor yeast in. Never again. By the time it had cleared I'd just about finished it and that was with a floating dip tube.
This answer applies to both of you:
I don't really have any references, except to say that when you open your fermenter after fermentation is compplete, if you do not immediately keg condition or bottle condition with yeast to scavenge the O2, or purge with CO2, you're exposing the beer to some amount of oxygen. You may not notice, especially if you're new to it and baby steps is the name of the game.

Search "preventing cold side oxidation". There's also a good closed transfer keg fermenting thread on here. And if you want to get really carried away, search for "LoDO brewing" with the caveat that LoDO brewing is far into the realm of diminishing returns.

Here's a comparison of my two beers:
PXL_20210316_034641246.jpg


Almost the same recipe. The beer on the right was in the keg for a few months. Beer on the left was freshly brewed. The darker color is usually indicative of oxidation.
 

day_trippr

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Almost the same recipe. The beer on the right was in the keg for a few months. Beer on the left was freshly brewed. The darker color is usually indicative of oxidation.
Rather than showing oxidation, I dare to say the difference is due to the older beer having much less suspended material, having settled over time...

Cheers!
 

Beenym88

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Do you happen to have any references that I can look at in regards to cold side fining and oxidation? I'm still a noob to cold side fining
Anything that exposes the beer to air will lead to some level of oxidation. It’s the same as when dropping dry hops in when all you can do is open the fermenter and drop them in.
 

beersk

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Rather than showing oxidation, I dare to say the difference is due to the older beer having much less suspended material, having settled over time...

Cheers!
This precisely. But not to diminish the point he was making, I agree that the oxidation of beer will darken it like that. It could very well be a combination of both. That one on the right doesn't look at all clear for being in the keg for a few months.
 

beersk

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This precisely. But not to diminish the point he was making, I agree that the oxidation of beer will darken it like that. It could very well be a combination of both, but in this case that seems doubtful. I'm thinking it's solely the fact that it's clearer. That one on the right doesn't look at all clear for being in the keg for a few months.
Apparently we can't delete our own posts on here...oops.
 

rtstrider

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Pitched the starter in around 58-60 degree F wort. It’s coming back up to room temp and figure it might be morning before there’s any action in the fermenter
 

day_trippr

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This precisely. But not to diminish the point he was making, I agree that the oxidation of beer will darken it like that. It could very well be a combination of both. That one on the right doesn't look at all clear for being in the keg for a few months.
Don't want to leave any hint that I'm not aware of oxidation causing darkening - I experienced that quite to my horror on the very first batch of "Heady Topper" I did using an open cold-crash technique ("OMG! Don't do that!"). But in this case I believe an argument could indeed be made that the older beer is actually holding up quite well :)

Cheers!
 

rtstrider

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Day 2 1/2 and the krausen has completely dropped. The yeast is still going nuts though. This is weird. Usually when the krausen drops the yeast is slowing down. Not in this case. Air lock is still bubbling every 2 seconds and fermentation is extremely active. After smelling the airlock I don't get any lager like qualities on the nose. Then again I'm not putting any weight into that because it's not finished beer lol Right now it has a citrus/pear smell to it. I haven't pulled a sample just yet though. If anything from the yeast pack sample, to nose from the airlock/fermenter, this has Kolsch written all over it. Really curious to see how it is in the final product :) With that said has anyone played with raising the PH on a finished kveik fermentation? If so is it worth it to get rid of the kveik twang from a lower PH?
 

hottpeper13

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I don't get the tang with Lutra. I do with Hornindal but that might be because I dried it in an oven with a fan. Voss is so fruity I can't tell if it has a tang. Pitching Lutra on a Cali Common this morning and will ferment at 68*. I've been noticing a correlation between mash temp, single infusion,and step mashing and ADF. The step mash of 143* for 60 min up to 158 for 30 min gets me to 80% so on this one I did a single at 154*. I love exbeerimenting with Kveik.
 

rtstrider

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I don't get the tang with Lutra. I do with Hornindal but that might be because I dried it in an oven with a fan. Voss is so fruity I can't tell if it has a tang. Pitching Lutra on a Cali Common this morning and will ferment at 68*. I've been noticing a correlation between mash temp, single infusion,and step mashing and ADF. The step mash of 143* for 60 min up to 158 for 30 min gets me to 80% so on this one I did a single at 154*. I love exbeerimenting with Kveik.
I've been using kveik off and on but am such a NOOB lol So far I've used Hothead twice and Voss (Lallemand) once. Lutra is in the fermenter now and there's an Opshaug brew lined up for this weekend hopefully. Lutra may end up getting moved to secondary and sitting for another week or so before it's moved to the keg and fined with gelatin. Figure if anything that can give it more time to clean up if needed. If it doesn't need it then straight to the keg it goes!
 

rtstrider

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Day 3 1/2 and it's still just chugging along. I figure any ester formation will be completed since it's been over 72 hours. I've got a space heater on this to bring up the temp a bit and hopefully help speed up the fermentation just a tad so it will be done by the weekend.
 

hottpeper13

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Ended up being a 1.070 imperial Cali Common. Had positive pressure in 2 hours and had krausen foam in 4. This morning was 24 hrs and going nuts. Its at 72 now and set to 77.
 

rtstrider

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Took 8 days total from start to end of fermentation. Kegged this up over lunch today. Sampled over the weekend and I wouldn't say this is lager clean. It reminded me a good bit of a Kolsch/Blonde ale yeast. Now it shocked the heck out of me because it just tastes like beer. There's no twang or anything of that nature which has not been my experience with Kveik! So yes this yeast is actually a clean beer yeast and not a twangy kveik yeast. I would absolutely use this yeast again in a blonde ale/Kolsch, with 0 temp control, comfortably without batting an eye. This has been very interesting! Now it sits in the keg for a few days, get's the gelatin treatment, and goes another week or two. I can't wait to try this when it's actually finished (post cold conditioning/fining)!

Edit: I'd be willing to bet this yeast would pair much better with Biermunchers Centennial Blonde than Nottingham. Any takers?
 
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balrog

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@balrog
Did you ferment under pressure? If not sounds an excellent result so far.
Short answer, no.

I was mistaken, this was not ferm in keg but big mouth bubbler, sorry about that. Airlock output was through a keg, no back pressure, to jug of starsan. Then transferred old fashioned non closed transfer bad O2 etc etc on day 4. !. Kveik be fast. I was impressed with the speed of ferment and then the speed of clearing in non-cold-crash conditions. I will make this again but use Saaz instead of the Perle/Mittelfruh of the Dr. Hans recipe (he does ferm under pressure by the way, 30 freaking psi).
 

balrog

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I mean, for example of speed, I normally see exotherm day 3 or so. For this Lutra, and I've seen the same using Lallemand Voss Kveik, the freaking exotherm (primary ferm) is finished in 18 hrs from pitch.
1619735003757.png
 

DuncB

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@balrog
I ferment mine under pressure and did have one brew at 35psi when I discovered it on day 4. It was my first wheat beer and I'd fitted a NRV post connector to the spunding valve thru sheer ignorance consequently no gas came out.
Amazingly still fermenting like crazy with white labs hefeweizen. I carefully reduced the pressure over several hours. Amazingly still got a few esters in the brew.
I do rack the pressure up with the lagers if I want a really clean quick ferment more to those levels at the end as it's so warm. Can turn round a beer in just over a week that way. Did that for my first emergency lager as lager friends were visiting and no lager on tap.
 

rtstrider

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Here’s my take on Lutra. I don’t like this in a pseudo pils. Not one bit at all. It’s has a musky grape flavor (subtle but it’s there) when fermented at 68f. No it’s not a “clean” yeast by all means. Now I will say this would make one awesome kolsch yeast! I think my problem is I came into this brew with expectations of it being lager-like and clean. It’s neither imo. Now to verify I poured this brew for a few other people and asked them what they tasted. They were your run of the mill macro brew drinkers and they picked that up also. Wasn’t a bad beer but wasn’t their favorite either. Anywho I will be using this yeast again in a kolsch and think the bitterness from noble hops would pair extremely well with the esters from the yeast. All in all I would not recommend this for a pseudo pils. If anything I would say warm ferment w34/70 in a temperature controlled environment if you’re worried about speed of fermentation. I brewed the Lutra Helles recipe from Omega btw
 

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balrog

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@rtstrider , what age (days past brew) and any cold crashing, when you had the grape flavor?
I noticed a sweetness early on (day 15 from brew) but that has faded now (day 34) and I have no cold crash capability now, just basement 50-60 temps.
 

rtstrider

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@rtstrider , what age (days past brew) and any cold crashing, when you had the grape flavor?
I noticed a sweetness early on (day 15 from brew) but that has faded now (day 34) and I have no cold crash capability now, just basement 50-60 temps.
You know I’m not entirely sure on the exact keg day. Should’ve noted it lol I want to say it’s been in there around 2-3 weeks
 

balrog

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I was going to go again, but the recipe I used was all Mittelfruh and Perle; I was going to redo with Saaz for my go-to noble spicey/floral and see if it worked better.

I will also say I fermented at 80F.
 

rtstrider

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I was going to go again, but the recipe I used was all Mittelfruh and Perle; I was going to redo with Saaz for my go-to noble spicey/floral and see if it worked better.

I will also say I fermented at 80F.
I think this work extremely well in a recipe like

90% 2 row (or German pils if you’re feeling fancy)
10% German wheat malt

Mash at 150f for 60 min

Magnum first wort bittering hops in the 12-15 ibu range

Hallertau Mittlefruh at 15 min minutes to bring the wort up to 19-20 ibus

Ferment room temp

That’s my go to “kolsch” recipe. I based it off my take of Karbach Love Street blonde ale. I usually use Briess 2 row brewers malt and weyermann Pale wheat. I brewed that with Imperial G-03 and around 24 beers were gone in minutes at the last highlands games. Was a HUGE hit!
 

lumbergh

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How many have done a stout with Lutra? I did one with Voss and it had the tang. My numbers were way off on that batch though.
 

DuncB

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I don't think I'd fancy my chances of getting a really clean ferment with any kveik unless it was under pressure. Pilsner and Asahi clone have come out good this way.
I have done two mackeson sweet stout clones which have both been good and reviewed well at homebrew club. But again fermented under pressure.
 
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