Oktoberdud?

[lnlogauge]

I brewed a 5 gallon all grain oktoberfest on sunday. It was my first experience using white labs, since the brew store never carried it before. A friend suggesting doing a activator, so on saturday thats what I did. After everything cooled and I added the yeast, I saw zero action. No bubbles, no nothing. Since I'm not very experienced, I didn't think much of it and just added it to my wort.

When I added the wort, it was 80ish degrees. Id say it takes my old freezer at least a day to get down to temperature. Today is wednesday, and there is still no action. Not even a bubble. Did I do something wrong? Is it too late to just add another strain of yeast in? Thanks for the help.

 

[librewer]

What strain of White Labs did you use? FYI... I pitched Wyeast Kolsch yeast for my Octoberfest on a Monday and didn't see any "signs" of fermentation on Wednesday when I checked it. There were no bubbles, no airlock activity, no krausen, nothing... top of the beer smooth as glass. Nothing Thursday. Then Friday night I went to check it again... BAM!... full krausen and very active. Sometimes it just takes some time. Even more than 72 hours to notice activity. But that doesn't mean the yeast aren't doing their thing!

 

[lnlogauge]

thanks for the advice! Its a Oktoberfest Lager yeast. That is very encouraging. I'm not used to lagers as much, so I get a little nervous. It was my first all grain by myself, which made me even more nervous. I'll let it do its thing for awhile longer and not be so impatient.

 

[stjackson]

Did you pitch the yeast at 80* and then drop the temp? Or did you cool the wort first in your freezer and then add the yeast?

 

[lnlogauge]

Pitched at 80, dropped the temp.

 

[tre9er]

hmmm, you may get some strange off-flavors. That lager yeast is looking to be MUCH cooler, like...30 degrees cooler. Better let this one age for a while, then when at FG, bring it up to room temp for a few days, then secondary/keg it and age it just above freezing for as long as possible.

 

[pjj2ba]

Lager yeast aren't as vigorous as ale yeast. Often the krausen is not that big. I brewed a lager on Sunday, and there was no Krausen on Monday, but I could see that the wort was all cloudy, which tells me the yeast are doing their thing. If the beer is cloudy, just give it some more time to get going. If it is still pretty clear, the could be a problem with your yeast and you might need to add some more

 

[SpeedYellow]

.. When I added the wort, it was 80ish degrees. Id say it takes my old freezer at least a day to get down to temperature...

The more favored procedure is to toss your 80F wort into the freezer/fermenter and crash cool down to 52F (or whatever your lagering temp target is). Then aerate and pitch. The yeast can be at 35F, or 52F, whatever you prefer. Yeast don't like to be cooled, but they're happy to be warmed.

 

[passedpawn]

The more favored procedure is to toss your 80F wort into the freezer/fermenter and crash cool down to 52F (or whatever your lagering temp target is). Then aerate and pitch. The yeast can be at 35F, or 52F, whatever you prefer. Yeast don't like to be cooled, but they're happy to be warmed.

This wkend, I pitched lager yeast into 44 and 42 degree carboys. After 2 days the 44 had a nice krausen on it, but the 42 didn't. I bumped the temp up 3 degrees and they are both cooking now. Love to ferment these things cold.

 

[Homercidal]

I second that lagers can take longer, but they are fermented cooler so there is less risk of infection. Give it time.

 

[tre9er]

I'm waiting another two days on my OktoberFAST, then if no signs of life, I'm raising temp 2-3 degrees, from 54 to 57. I'm encouraged to see that it can take nearly a week, though.

 

[stjackson]

Pitched at 80, dropped the temp.

I wondered about this. Here's what I think could have happened: you pitched at 80*, which makes the yeast all nice and comfy (they love warmer temps, even if they don't produce the best beer that way) and they take off like a rocket. Had you kept fermenting at this temp, it would have been done very quickly and would have tasted...interesting. You dropped the temp, though, which probably made the yeast drop out early. They fermented very quickly for a while, then pooped out when they got cold. Check the gravity and see what they were able to accomplish. Warm it up a few degrees and swirl the carboy a bit to rouse the yeast. Hopefully it will start fermenting again and you can see what you get. It might taste a little weird at first and take a while to mature (give it some extra lagering time once FG is achieved), but with some time I'm sure it will be drinkable.

SpeedYellow has the right idea: you want to pitch into the temp at which you'll ferment; at least within a degree or two. If you can't get your wort down that low with your chiller, place it in your freezer overnight (I would say up to 24 hours, as long as your sanitation is solid) and pitch the next day. You could also put your starter into the freezer with the chilling carboy and both wort and yeast will be at the same temp come pitching time, which is ideal. Some people will even take the opportunity to rack the wort off the trub that falls out during crash cooling pre-pitch. I don't know if that step is totally necessary as it introduces another chance for contamination. At any rate, the worst thing you can do in regards to pitching and temp is to pitch warm and dramatically cool. Pitching cool and warming up is OK, as long as it's controlled and doesn't get too hot.

Fear not, however; it's very unlikely that you've screwed up your beer beyond recovery. You'll still have beer when it's all said and done.

 

[stjackson]

This wkend, I pitched lager yeast into 44 and 42 degree carboys. After 2 days the 44 had a nice krausen on it, but the 42 didn't. I bumped the temp up 3 degrees and they are both cooking now. Love to ferment these things cold.

I've heard this from a pro on one of the BN podcasts; don't remember who it was or from which brewery. He said he likes to ferment his lagers as cold as the yeast will allow for as long as it takes to reach FG. Many of those lager strains will still be active in the 40s, albeit much, much slower. The colder the ferment, though, the cleaner the final product will be.

 

[osagedr]

I've heard this from a pro on one of the BN podcasts; don't remember who it was or from which brewery. He said he likes to ferment his lagers as cold as the yeast will allow for as long as it takes to reach FG. Many of those lager strains will still be active in the 40s, albeit much, much slower. The colder the ferment, though, the cleaner the final product will be.

I'm also in favour of provoking the little yeasty bastards by taking the temps down as far as they will go. But caution should be exercised; some lager strains will go a lot lower than others. Pitching rates must also be adjusted accordingly--for example Fermentis recommends on its lager yeast product sheets that pitching rates be 250% higher at 48 degrees than 53 degrees--nevermind pushing down into the low 40s. So if you really want to go low with your temp, be sure to pitch vast quantities of yeast. Not a problem if you have slurry readily available, but can get expensive if you are using liquid or dry yeast.

 

[Whattawort]

I don't make lagers, so I can't speak to any experience with that. But I will say that my experience with WL yeast without a starter tends to take some time. I did an alt with WLP029 on sat and it was monday night before I saw visibile signs of fermentation. Once it took off.....it TOOK OFF! I had 3in of StarSan bubbling out of the airlock when I came home from work.

 

[lnlogauge]

I wondered about this. Here's what I think could have happened: you pitched at 80*, which makes the yeast all nice and comfy (they love warmer temps, even if they don't produce the best beer that way) and they take off like a rocket. Had you kept fermenting at this temp, it would have been done very quickly and would have tasted...interesting. You dropped the temp, though, which probably made the yeast drop out early. They fermented very quickly for a while, then pooped out when they got cold. Check the gravity and see what they were able to accomplish. Warm it up a few degrees and swirl the carboy a bit to rouse the yeast. Hopefully it will start fermenting again and you can see what you get. It might taste a little weird at first and take a while to mature (give it some extra lagering time once FG is achieved), but with some time I'm sure it will be drinkable.

I thought about this, but since I didn't get any activity at the 80 degrees, I doubt it really took off like a rocket. It was put in a temp controlled freezer, so it didnt stay at 80 for very long. Next time I will definitely get it to temp before adding the yeast.

 

[JeepDiver]

I'm waiting another two days on my OktoberFAST, then if no signs of life, I'm raising temp 2-3 degrees, from 54 to 57. I'm encouraged to see that it can take nearly a week, though.

If your talking about BMs OctoberFAST, and you used the called for Ale Yeast (Thus making it fast), I can almost gaurentee you won't see activity at 54-57 degrees

 

[tre9er]

If your talking about BMs OctoberFAST, and you used the called for Ale Yeast (Thus making it fast), I can almost gaurentee you won't see activity at 54-57 degrees

Yes, but no. I used SF Steam yeast. It can be ferm'd as low as 50, but I chose 54.