OFFICIAL Kate the Great Russian Imperial Stout Clone

[RocketOtter]

Has anyone added brown sugar to this recipe?

I came in a tad low at 1.100 (but somehow got a 1.058 porter from the second runnings?) and was thinking of adding 0.5lbs of brown sugar boiled in some left over wort after high krausen mainly to boost yeast activity but also to boost the gravity a little. Thoughts?

 

[atimmerman88]

By the sheerest coincidence, I was intending to post an update tonight anyway (hence the double post), as I just racked my batch to secondary. Ended up with ~6 gallons *after* trub loss at OG 1.112, which has come down to 1.022 (and actually may continue to drop). Denny's yeast really chewed through this thing, although it certainly took longer than it usually does.

Color is dark brown in the siphon, inky black in the glass, with a mocha head so far. Considering it's getting mild head retention even though it isn't really carbed up yet bodes well for its future. Initial flavors are heavy roast coffee, which I suspect will fade with time, allowing some more chocolate to come out. The "raisiny" flavor from Special B is mild, but definitely present. I'm not a huge fan of that aspect of a lot of big RISes, but this one is balanced well by the coffee. Definitely looking forward to seeing how the oak+bourbon impacts it, as the vanilla from the infused bourbon should complement both the oak and the coffee nicely. So far, so good!

smagee -


It's been a while, but do you remember about how long it took your version to come to FG...

I'm about a week in w/ 1450 chewing through my PG 1.100...down 60 points as of last night...Hoping to get down in the 20's somewhere here in the next week.

I've always had 1450 attenuate well for me and I hope this is no different.

 

[Dog House Brew]

It's been a while, but do you remember about how long it took your version to come to FG...

I'm about a week in w/ 1450 chewing through my PG 1.100...down 60 points as of last night...Hoping to get down in the 20's somewhere here in the next week.

I've always had 1450 attenuate well for me and I hope this is no different

Glad to hear someone is using 1450. That is my plan for yeast when I brew this. Love 1450!!!!

 

[AceVeres]

Just bottled this up tonight. Ended up with 44 bombers of it! The sample tasted great, dark, chocolate, some coffee. Nice and earthy. The port and oak came through perfectly (more port than oak). I used 1 spiral per fermenter.

The spiral was soaked in port for about 3 weeks (all of promary) then was in the secondary the whole time. I saved the liquid (all maxing by itself), but did not need to add any.

I added champaign yeast to each bottle following filling to minimize the chance of a poor mix in the bucket.

About 4 gallons was primed with 3/4 cup corn sugar, the other 4 was primed with brown sugar (3 and 1/8 ounces). I'm very interested to see if the sugar makes any difference in a few months from now.

 

[DSmith]

"As far as the Kate's oaking goes. All of Kate is lightly oaked. We make our own Portwood simply by infusing oak spirals ( The Barrel Mill, Avon, MN- 800.201.7125) with local Port. Of course if I told you the amounts and proportions I have to kill you!! Actually, we take 6 spirals and break them up, place them into a 10 gal. corny keg and pour 3 bottles of Tawney Port over the spirals. We add about 10 PSI to the keg and let the concoction sit for 18-25 days. Then we fill the remainder of the 10 gal. keg with Kate. Let it sit at ambient temp for 45-60 days then inject the 10 gals back into the 440 gals of KtG. Once the keg is empty we then back fill the 10 gals and let the Kate sit on the oak for another 6 months. This become the double oaked Kate. Very rare, only about 56 bottles produced. Hope this helps. Kate can age for 6 years once in bottles, if truth be known!! Cheers! Tod Mott"

According to this, 3 x 750 mL Port / 450 gals beer = 5 mL port / gal.

(1) 9" oak spiral from The Barrel Mill = 1.5 oz (I weighed it at Midwest today)
6 spirals for 450 gal of beer is just 9 oz...

If this information is accurate, this beer has very little port in it and spirals are probably used to speed up the aging process.

I think I'm going to soak 1 oz of dry medium toast French oak cubes in enough port to cover and just add the cubes to the secondary for about 6 months. Does this seem like a reasonable plan?

 

[AceVeres]

I used a little less than 1 spiral per 5 gallon carboy. I had to cut the short to fit in my mason jar for soaking. So, I probably ended up at about 1 oz per 5 gallons. I also used just enough port to cover them in the jar (equalled 1 full mason jar).

They soaked during primary, then I added when racking to secondary. Secondary was about 5 months. Tasted great at bottling sample just enough port taste at the finish. I saved the oaked port just in case I needed more flavor, but I didn't.

Hope that helps.

 

[DSmith]

I used a little less than 1 spiral per 5 gallon carboy. I had to cut the short to fit in my mason jar for soaking. So, I probably ended up at about 1 oz per 5 gallons. I also used just enough port to cover them in the jar (equalled 1 full mason jar).

They soaked during primary, then I added when racking to secondary. Secondary was about 5 months. Tasted great at bottling sample just enough port taste at the finish. I saved the oaked port just in case I needed more flavor, but I didn't.

Hope that helps.

This is very helpful to know that the port still comes through if you don't add the soaking port to the secondary. This is seems very different from recipes with bourbon soaked wood and there's 100+ mL of bourbon added. There really isn't much port in this beer and most of it is probably soaked up in the wood.

I chose cubes to avoid using a lot of port in the soaking process. I'll be interesting to buy a spiral someday and try it your way.

 

[atimmerman88]

I pulled a quart of this off and fermented it with Brett harvested from the lost abbey.

Bottled that today, no oak/port but it did drop from 1.1 to 1.012 in a month.

We'll see what it's like in a year or 2


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[Marmike600]

I just bottled my Kate clone weekend before last. It was brewed in February (I think) and aged in glass since then. It is probably the best stout I have ever had and isnt even carbed or chilled yet. I cant wait for the middle of October (when we crack open the first bottles)

 

[Hawkfish]

Just bottled mine. Tasted outstanding, can' t wait for some age and try it again.

 

[UCChemE05]

I just bottled my Kate clone weekend before last. It was brewed in February (I think) and aged in glass since then. It is probably the best stout I have ever had and isnt even carbed or chilled yet. I cant wait for the middle of October (when we crack open the first bottles)

Did you add any new yeast when Bottling?

 

[UCChemE05]

Deleted... Double post

 

[AceVeres]

I bottled mine about 8 weeks ago. I did a check at 3 weeks for carb. It carbed up but taste was very harsh (nothing like ny bottling sample) I cracked one last weekend. Damn good. The harsh molasses flavor that overpowered the 3 week sample faded and now I have a very roasty, coffee finish.

 

[DSmith]

This is very helpful to know that the port still comes through if you don't add the soaking port to the secondary. This is seems very different from recipes with bourbon soaked wood and there's 100+ mL of bourbon added. There really isn't much port in this beer and most of it is probably soaked up in the wood.

I chose cubes to avoid using a lot of port in the soaking process. I'll be interesting to buy a spiral someday and try it your way.

I brewed the beer, 1.106 OG, 1.016 FG (12% ABV). Transferred to a secondary after 3 weeks primary (controlled to 65F for most of fermentation and increased to 72F at the end). I added 1.5 oz of tawny port soaked (4 weeks soaking) medium toast French oak cubes to the secondary. To be bottled in 6 months.

 

[Winterpeg]

transfered 10 gal to secondary this weekend after a 1 month primary. 1095og, currently sitting at 1026. sample tasted amazing, very chocolatey and complex, but still quite hot and not as together as I'm hoping it will be after another few months in secondary. Planning on bottling late november and cracking the first one at christmas dinner.

 

[Winterpeg]

how many vol co2 are everyone bottling this at? did a milk stout and only used 135g dextrose for 5.5gal and was disappointed with the carbonation, pours a very small head at room temp, almost none if chilled. mouth feel is creamy but lacks any sort of carbonation bite. I know stouts are carbed less but it feels lacking still.

 

[AceVeres]

I went with 2.3. if I pour hard (bottled) I get too much head, so I'm pretty happy with that number. I think much more and it would cover up some of the subtleties of the beer.

 

[hbrookie]

I've done 4 batches of this so far. Each batch was bottle carbed with 1 tsp table sugar per 22 bottle. It was added directly to the bottle because I didn't want to introduce any more oxygen than necessary. I fully intend for some of these to be shelved for a long time. Here's my accounts of each run:

Batch #1: 5 gallons. WLP001 yeast. I assumed a 5% drop in efficiency (down from 75%). All that grain caused my mash tun to overflow (even using minimal water - 1.3 qt per pound). Missed my SG horribly. Only hit 1.088. Skipped any secondary treatments and just called this one a standard RIS. Glad I did. I cracked one a couple of weeks ago, and the hops were a bit much after missing the gravity by so much.

Batch #2: Scaled down to 3.5 gallon batches after the last fiasco. WLP001 in the fermentation chamber just below room temp (about 66 degrees). Not trying to control the esters, just the fusels. Overshot the SG on this one. 1.110. Put 2 tbls of cocoa powder into the boil on this one. Transferred to secondary at 3 weeks. 2 oz of cocoa nibs scalded in boiling water went into secondary with it. Aged on the nibs for 2 weeks then bottled. Cracked on a couple weeks ago. This beer is honestly a bit two complex for cocoa. The cocoa confuses it. Too many things going on. Also, have some carb issues with some of the bottles. No bottle bombs, no over carb, but some just have no carb at all. ABV is very high and I think I may have euthanized my yeast.

Batch #3: WLP001 again. SG 1.106 (nailed it!). Another 3.5 gallon batch. Three week ferment at 66 degrees. 2 weeks in secondary on 2 oz of heavy toasted Hungarian oak cubes soaked in tawny port. Only the cubes went into the carboy. We cracked open two last weekend. There was a soft hiss as the caps released and you could immediately hear angels singing. After the first taste, my friends and I just stared at each other with mouths agape. This is by far the best RIS I've ever had -and I've tried a good number. The Hungarian gives some very pronounced caramel notes that go deliciously with this beer. The port gives a hint of fruit and you feel almost like you're drinking a beer liquer or schnapps. Carb turned out a tad weak on this batch as well.

Batch #4: Just put it in the fermenter last weekend. Changed the yeast up to San Diego super. SG 1.104. This will be a redo of batch #3. Hoping for more consistent yeast action in the bottle. This should be the truth teller on whether it's my bottling or the yeast.

 

[NewBrewB]

Thanks for posting the detailed after-action info.

 

[Caboose]

I've read through most of the post on this thread over the last few days. I am extremely interested and excited about making a batch or two of KtG.

My question to the group is, having not had KtG before (as a lot of people have stated before) is there a RIS on the market that you could somewhat compare it to?

 

[catdaddy66]

I'm pulling the trigger on this one! Going to try to partigyle a big and small version. I have had a couple friends that have passed away recently and these will my tribute brews to their memories. It took me 2-3 months to decide what to brew but I settled on this and hope I can do it (and my friends!) justice...


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[atimmerman88]

I'm pulling the trigger on this one! Going to try to partigyle a big and small version. I have had a couple friends that have passed away recently and these will my tribute brews to their memories. It took me 2-3 months to decide what to brew but I settled on this and hope I can do it (and my friends!) justice...


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I made this this summer with a light, 3.7%, hoppy dark ale which was pretty good.


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[brewski09]

I've read through most of the post on this thread over the last few days. I am extremely interested and excited about making a batch or two of KtG.

My question to the group is, having not had KtG before (as a lot of people have stated before) is there a RIS on the market that you could somewhat compare it to?

I haven't had the original either. I made a RIS based largely on this thread and I've never had a RIS like this before. It's one of the best beers I've ever made or had imho. Thanks to everyone for the recipe.

If anyone does think there is a reasonably near substitute, I would love to hear about it too.


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[Caboose]

I haven't had the original either. I made a RIS based largely on this thread and I've never had a RIS like this before. It's one of the best beers I've ever made or had imho. Thanks to everyone for the recipe.

If anyone does think there is a reasonably near substitute, I would love to hear about it too.


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That's all the info I need! Going to be ordering the ingredients soon!

 

[catdaddy66]

Bought my ingredients yesterday! My LHBS guy didn't have dark wheat or carafa III... We subbed more black patent and regular wheat instead.

He also told me that next Saturday he was going to have a brewing class for all grain and talked me into brewing this recipe in the store on his equipment! Woo hoo...!


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[AceVeres]

Bought my ingredients yesterday! My LHBS guy didn't have dark wheat or carafa III... We subbed more black patent and regular wheat instead.

He also told me that next Saturday he was going to have a brewing class for all grain and talked me into brewing this recipe in the store on his equipment! Woo hoo...!


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Nice! Now just convince him to double the recipe. You know, for educational purposes. L

 

[AceVeres]

Bought my ingredients yesterday! My LHBS guy didn't have dark wheat or carafa III... We subbed more black patent and regular wheat instead.

He also told me that next Saturday he was going to have a brewing class for all grain and talked me into brewing this recipe in the store on his equipment! Woo hoo...!


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Nice! Now just convince him to double the recipe. You know, for educational purposes.

 

[TxBigHops]

I've read through most of the post on this thread over the last few days. I am extremely interested and excited about making a batch or two of KtG.

My question to the group is, having not had KtG before (as a lot of people have stated before) is there a RIS on the market that you could somewhat compare it to?

I've had this on my "to brew" list for a while now too, and have been wondering the same regarding other comparable beers. Last weekend I was lucky enough to find that a local grill was serving Clown Shoes The Good The Bad and The Unidragon. It was thick, chewy and scrumptious! It does have a higher ABV (14%) but wondering if anyone has tried both and could provide a comparison?

 

[NewBrewB]

Any recommendations for mash temps? I'm going to try this over the weekend if things go well.

54 degrees? 56?

 

[SavoryChef]

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